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  1. #1
    aka Jerome CritEastwood's Avatar
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    Acerbic Article in OC Register, Cars vs Bikes

    The article is ridiculous, almost as much as the comments attached to the article.

    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/c...y-cycling.html
    Runnin' With The Pack

  2. #2
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    what a ****ing idiot

  3. #3
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    Yep. That article really ticked me off.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Nachoman's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure idiots like him are the cause of the problem.
    .
    .

    Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.

  5. #5
    It's ALL base... DScott's Avatar
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    The guy posts here occasionally, usually to shill his articles with a hit and run post. Maybe you all should PM your thoughts on the matter to him?

    http://www.bikeforums.net/member.php...7-DavidWhiting

  6. #6
    Senior Member Jed19's Avatar
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    I don't see anything terrifically wrong with his article. Maybe not well balanced, but definitely not out of place.
    Regards,

    Jed

  7. #7
    Senior Member Garfield Cat's Avatar
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    This article gets the conversation going. That's a start. One could argue about it's content but the issues are still the same. Whiting at that meeting somehow thinks that Phase I comes first and that bike groups organized as clubs can actually self regulate their members. That's a big assumption. Those 80 deaths, how many are group or club rides?

    The proof is in the pudding. The deaths in the future could very well be with riders who ride for their basic transportation to and from work as dish washers in our restaurants, etc. But then again, nobody cares about these people....or do they?

    In today's FM radio on KPCC, there was a discussion about the Tea Party and what drives them. The political commentator was saying it was about tea party members not belonging to any particular party and members wanting to cause change in the way people "think" about our lives, not just an affinity towards any particular political party.

    The change starts with how we think about riding and how drivers think about riders and their responsibilities to avoid distractions with cell phones etc.

    If Whiting could get those 80 fatalities and do a piece on all of them, even interview the local authorities, their official reports, eye witnesses, and get funding from some kind of Pew Charitable Trust, or whatever, to air on Public Television, that would help in how we all "think" about this issue. First comes a thought, then an act, unless we act without thinking.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Bobsled's Avatar
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    It only took him 9 months to report back after his sit down w/ OC Wheelmen rep.

    FYI, in his little poll, 68% said "Do not ban cyclists from the road" while the other 32% of the losers said yes. That's gotta bunch up his panties.
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  9. #9
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    I agree that it is important to get people thinking about how cars and bikes can coexist, but he seems to draw a correlation between the way bike club members ride and the 80 deaths. There isn't any evidence of that.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Garfield Cat's Avatar
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    Any campaign to inform the public and to influence their thinking has to be done in an organized and deliberate way. We all know that just from the media, like it or not. I'm not sure that Whiting in his Phase I or II is actually going to do that.

  11. #11
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    GC, I think you've got it right.

    This is about urging a different thought process for everyone who uses the roads. I also ride a motorcycle and for years have noticed indifference and sometimes hostility toward bikers. However, recently the state of CA declared the month of May to be Motorcycle Awareness Month, and had the phrase "Look Twice -- Save a Life" on several major freeway signs throughout the state. I'm certaintly not naive enough to believe that this is sufficient to make me completely safe from all the distracted motorists, or even the majority of them, but it starts the process of awareness. It's kinda like seatbelts, when they created a culture that made it important to wear them, most people did (even without it being a law...).

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    Here's a suggestion, how about better driver's education? Sure cyclists in packs can be very obnoxious but the majority are not. I think the biggest solutions to the problem are better driver's training, harsher fines for cell phone/text usage. From the cyclist's end, they need the "elders" and members of the rides to instill better decorum in the group, swarming cars, taking more than one lane, rolling lights etc.

    I laughed out loud when I saw that he wanted cyclists to ride single file from now on.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdgrannygear View Post
    Here's a suggestion, how about better driver's education? Sure cyclists in packs can be very obnoxious but the majority are not. I think the biggest solutions to the problem are better driver's training, harsher fines for cell phone/text usage. From the cyclist's end, they need the "elders" and members of the rides to instill better decorum in the group, swarming cars, taking more than one lane, rolling lights etc.

    I laughed out loud when I saw that he wanted cyclists to ride single file from now on.
    Hit the nail on the head I think.

    20 question multi-choice and a ride around the block is laughable at best.

  14. #14
    jmX
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdgrannygear View Post
    I laughed out loud when I saw that he wanted cyclists to ride single file from now on.
    I laughed when he talked about taking peoples ability to wear a club jersey away for a month. WHO CARES. Also maybe they can be grounded from watching TV for a week. That'll teach 'em!

    What a joke.

  15. #15
    aka Jerome CritEastwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmX View Post
    I laughed when he talked about taking peoples ability to wear a club jersey away for a month.
    Me too because now I'll know how to identify clubster scofflaws. They'll be the OFWG freds in their AC/DC Primal Wear jerseys.
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  16. #16
    Despite all my rage, I am rooftest's Avatar
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    Where does the Register get all their horrible writers? This guy isn't as bad as most, although he doesn't seem to know that there's a difference between a sentance and a paragraph.

  17. #17
    Pedal pusher... alicestrong's Avatar
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    Blogger researched OC accident stats...


    Similar thinking recently shared by Malibu, it seems?
    May you live long, live strong, and live happy!

  18. #18
    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rooftest View Post
    Where does the Register get all their horrible writers? This guy isn't as bad as most, although he doesn't seem to know that there's a difference between a sentance and a paragraph.
    Sentence!

  19. #19
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    I think his intentions were noble in creating the article and the poll. Aside from obeying the traffic laws and clubs regulating themselves, I do not fully agree on some of his ideas/proposals. However, as he has pointed out himsellf, those are just ideas and ideas can make sense or don't. I do not see him as an "idiot" though for writing something that will bring awareness to a rider's safety. He may sound ignorant or clueless to some of you but to each his own I guess. I do not see him as a pro-automobile advocate as well and will be looking forward to his next article about the automobile driver's responsibility.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Jed19's Avatar
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    I am a cyclist who is sometimes ashamed/aggravated at some of the stunts I see other cyclists pull. It is very obvious to me that a lot of road cyclists are either not very cognizant of traffic rules, or they choose to flagrantly disobey/ignore such rules. I see it all the time while riding or motoring.

    Of course, that is no excuse for motorists to try and intimidate cyclists, but I think the first rule of self-presevation is that cyclists can not come out ahead in any physical contact with motorists, so it behooves us to obey all traffic laws and to make sure we try and acquire the skills to ride safely on the road.

    Just my two cents.
    Regards,

    Jed

  21. #21
    Me and the cat... Pamestique's Avatar
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    Personally I don't disagree with the premise of the article - yes - there are alot of idiots cyclist out there. I see them personally every week. I can't tell you how often I have been passed with riders going way to fast and dangerous for the conditions and stopping for red lights - for get about it!!!

    What I thought interesting where the clubs he called out at the end - mostly MTB clubs. How do they control what happens on the road???? And the one club he didn't call out but should have? BCI - Bike Club of Irvine, which is larger than OCW and contains more offenders. I stopped riding with the club becuase they would not police its members.

    Bottom line we have to watch out. Cars just don't see us like we see them. We also need to obey all traffic laws and act reasonably. No life lost is a good thing.
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  22. #22
    aka Jerome CritEastwood's Avatar
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    Namedroppers are so sad, but even more sad when dropping the wrong names.
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  23. #23
    Senior Member mkadam68's Avatar
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    The author of the above article (Whiting) did not think things through before making his suggestions. Perhaps he is a new cyclist? Or does not ride very much? Or only rides on MUPs? I dunno. He comes at the whole issue with a standard motorist's tactic, that of trying to get us off the road (or limit our access) by saying it's for our safety. And because he doesn't grasp the very basics, I question his credibility.

    After doing a rudimentary examination of some cyclist deaths in OC, BikinginLA had a few things to say:
    Just how many of those recent deaths resulted from club rides or cyclists blowing through stop signals or riding two abreast?
    While I have no doubt his heart is in the right place, it sounds like another case of saying we have to clean up our act so drivers won’t kill us, rather than placing the blame squarely where it belongs — on dangerous drivers, bad infrastructure and lax enforcement.
    If you see any collision on that list that could have been prevented by observing stop signals or riding single file, you’re doing better than me.
    That’s seven deaths in nine months — none of which involved cyclists running red lights or stop signs, or riding two or more abreast. And only two involving multiple riders or club rides.
    In the meantime, though, let’s agree that cyclists should ride safely and observe the law. But stop blaming the victims. And stop pretending that it’s the behavior of bicyclists that puts us at risk.
    And here's a couple quotes from Cyclelicious concerning the same article:
    So I’m puzzled when avid cyclist David Whiting points at a roomful of club riders and tells them “cyclists need to clean up their act” before we’re ready to focus on driver safety. Because, after all, when “packs [of cyclists] block streets, they scare the bejeebers out of drivers.”
    We as cyclists should be courteous, and we should share the road by riding legally, but pelotons of cyclists hogging the road and blowing stop signs is not a bike safety issue in Orange County or anywhere else. Will single file riding do anything to prevent cyclist fatalities in Orange County? Should a bike club really suspend membership for rolling a stop sign, which is something that 97% of motorists are also guilty of? Can we also call on the AAA to suspend benefits for their members who are observed violating the rules of the road and not exercising common courtesy on the road?
    The handful of times I’ve been hit by a car, I was always riding lawfully on a properly equipped bicycle. The two times I’ve been hit at night, I had plenty of lights and reflectors. My only sin, perhaps, is too much courtesy on my part: The two times I’ve been hooked maybe could have been avoided if I was a little more assertive in my lane positioning.

    Visit The C-Blog : the blog about cycling.

  24. #24
    surfrider
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    There are as many dolts on bicycles as there are driving cars.

    If Whiting really wants to write and informative news article, why doesn't he RESEARCH bicycle accidents in OC and give us some statistics based on what he finds - were the cyclists using lights while riding at night?, did they fail to stop at lights/stop signs? or give right-of-way to other vehicles that had it?, were they on the wrong side of the street? . . . stuff like that so the major reasons for bicycle/vehicle collisions can be put into perspective. Simply making a readers poll only makes for pretty weak newpaper filler.

    As for the Register's poor writing - its always been a slightly tabloidish newspaper, not as concerned with accuracy (relative to other newspapers) as to getting the story in print AND putting a somewhat overdramatic spin on things, too, to help attract readers.
    Last edited by surfrider; 09-17-10 at 11:29 PM. Reason: typo

  25. #25
    aka Jerome CritEastwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfrider View Post
    There are as many dolts on bicycles as there are driving cars.
    Unless you are talking percentages, you are sadly mistaken. Millions of cars = tens of thousands of scumbag drivers.

    If you are talking percentages, you are correct and lop-sidedly so. The amount of dumbass, wrong-way and sidewalk riders I see daily is staggering as far as percentages go. Even so, most of the offenders I see are more than likely not DL holders, nor able to comprehend what they are doing wrong due to cultural differences.
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