idoru2005

Volunteer at the Spring DV century and use your ride credit to do Mt. Laguna. BTW, we camped the night before the Fall DV century (and the night following the century). It was a pretty good experience. Nighttime temperature was comfortable. I'm guessing nighttime temps during spring are much cooler.

jmX

I have a couple of silly questions.

1) I assume at the rest stops there's a big jug or water hose used to fill your personal bottles. Is that the case? I've only done running events over the last 5 years and thats always tables with cups of water you can grab, but it wouldnt really make sense for cycling.

2) Are aerobars generally allowed in these events? I've never used or owned them, but for the ultracentury I'm thinking some clip-ons might be nice to use when I'm cruising along by myself.

idoru2005

Right, their water stops have large water jugs. Depending on how busy the stop is, the volunteers may even help fill your bottles. They have pre-measured cups of heed and perpetuem. They also have gels (in bulk, not packets). So if you want to take advantage of the gels, you need to get a gel container.

here's a typical water stop:
https://www.adventurecorps.com/deathv.../PA301517.html

Aerobars are ok. I saw quite a few.

thenomad

They have nice setups, no ghetto garden hoses. I learned quickly that a PBJ sandwich is delicious but not WHILE riding. Too hard to breath with a mouth full of peanut butter!

On that link, a few pics down, this is the most inspirational:
Dad with 14 and 11 yr olds doing the death valley centuries and the whole of Mt Laguna (11,000 ft total gain) as well!
https://www.adventurecorps.com/deathv.../PA301529.html

thenomad

Excellent, I'd not even considered the volunteer aspect. Maybe I can find time to volunteer on this spring century so I can ride the fall one next year.

idoru2005

Yep, I saw them ride at the Mt. Laguna training ride a few weeks before the actual event. I rode with them a while on the Kitchen Creek climb. They obviously knew the climb well. I went into the red trying to keep up with the trio. When the road got steeper, they rode away from me and I never saw them again. I hope to be doing rides like that with my daughter when she's old enough. She already loves taking rides in the Burley.

deitman

The AdventureCorps SAG stops are appropriate for the distance and remoteness. They have comfort food/drink/chairs, even though that might not be the best thing for century riding (Beware the Chair). HEED, bulk gel, Perpetuem, electrolytes are all in good supply. And the Spring ride is a good first attempt for a double as the grades aren't too steep and you can always bail out after 150 miles at the start/finish.

As for weather...its anyone's guess. Last year's Spring ride saw mild temps, a few breezes, and some rain/wind by sundown. This year's fall saw a little drizzle in the morning and a clearing breeze out of the south about 10 mph or so...but it felt stronger as the legs got tired.

The Spring Century is fun...you usually overlap with some of the Double riders coming back from Shoshone...they appreciate drafting off the fresher riders ....

IMHO the Spring rides are easier than the Fall rides...and anything going up Hell's Gate is just that...its not a state highway so its not subject to the grade restrictions...and it feels like it goes up forever.

jmX

Are there super steep sections? The grade map makes it look like its mostly 16 miles of 6% grade. Can't really tell from the picture if it ever gets super steep for a while or not.

200miler

You didn't mention which route you were doing, but for the century there is only the climb up to Jubilee that is sustained climbing. All the rest of the route is either on the valley floor, or on the fan. The fan will wear you down as it is like loooong rollers, and there are quite a few to negotiate between Furnace Creek and Badwater, and then again after Mormon Point, approaching Ashford Mill. It's at Ashford that the sustained climbing starts; Jubilee is a 6% ramp that is ± 5½ miles. If you're on the ultra, or double, you would continue on over Salsberry Pass, after a ½ mile descent down from Jubilee. Salsberry's west side is a 9 mile slog up a 6% ramp, topping out at 3315'. The descent towards Shoshone consists of 4 miles of 6% followed by 3½ miles across the Furnace Creek Wash [heading east it actually "climbs" 100'!] and then drops for 3½ miles - ± 3-4% - to Hwy 127. Then it's a 1½ mile run into Shoshone. The westbound leg back to Ashford is actually pretty easy in comparison. This section - Ashford Mill/Shoshone - comprises the bulk of the sustained climbing, although, as mentioned above, riding the rollers [fan] in the Valley is really tiring. Also, the wide open landscape plays with your mind; your line of sight is typically 9-10 miles, unobstructed! When I did my 1st DVD many years back, the route went out to Stovepipe 1st, with the leg down to Shoshone finishing the day. It was typical to be riding back from Ashford in the dusk/dark, and one could occasionally "see" lights up the Valley which were actually 25-35 miles away! BTW, there were comments earlier in this thread about it being an "easy first double" or first century. Don't underestimate it. The terrain is very unforgiving; extremely dry, with weather conditions that can vary widely. It's been in the 90's with no breezes, sleeting/raining on the climb over Salsberry, winds of all intensities; you never really know what character the Valley will have until the day you throw your leg over the bar!

For the record, I live 25 miles from DVNP, and I ride over Salsberry 2 or 3 times a week on my training rides. With this said I can't recommend it any stronger; riding in DV is one of those "must be part of" adventures.
YMMV
-dg

calamarichris

Thanks 200!
I was curious about this too. I'm doing the HGH in March. Do you think a 39-25 is light enough for a 180-lb* spinner who's healthy enough to finish most centuries in sub-five, or are there sections steep enough to warrant a 27?

Also, do you think a sub-five-hour HGH is an overambitious goal? I just finished Tour de Poway in sub-five, but that only had about 4800-feet of climbing, but it also had plenty of stoplights.

[Edit: * - might be down to 175 by March.]

jmX

Yeah, thanks 200miler.

I'm doing the 150 in feb and then the HGH in march. They'll be my first organized events on a bicycle.

The 16 miles of 6percent grade comment I made was about climbing hells gate to daylight pass. It sounds awful, but 6% seems workable. I do a small local hill thats 12% every once in a while, and it nearly kills me. I just wondered if the ride ever had super steep segments like that.

I do like your description of the spring ride, and to be honest I'd forgotten there was much climbing at all. I'd sorta written it off as the easy one, but I see that I'm underestimating it a bit.

Both days should be pretty painful experiences for me, I can hardly wait!

idoru2005

What hill might that be? BTW, I live in Irvine so it would be nice to try this climb? I'm wondering if you might be referring to the Maple Springs trail at the top of Silverado Canyon. Modjeska Grade off of Santiago Canyon is steep little mofo as well.

idoru2005

In my opinion, It's a pretty tough time of year to begin training for an event like HGH. With all the climbing involved you'd probably want to train on local roads that have a similar profile. CA39 from Encanto Park immediately come to mind (ie long sustained climb at 6+ % grade). However, with winter upon us, mountain riding days seem pretty limited.

jmX, hit me up with a PM if you want to chat about this offline.

jmX

I know I'll be suffering on the rides, but I'm not trying to compete. Just trying to set high goals and push myself. It's probably too late to try climbing the various mountains around here, I should have gone on the big group ride a couple weeks ago to get acquainted with GMR/GRR/CA39/etc.

The segment of 12% grade is a short section of road, from the 91 south on imperial/canon. It's about a mile long climb, and if you descend going back towards 91 you'll see street signs listing the 12% grade. The garmin reads between 10 and 18% depending on how its feeling at the moment. Overall average is probably 6 or 7%.

There's also "hidden hills road" in yorba linda which I'll be trying this week. It was steep enough where it felt like the parking brake in my car might not be enough when I stopped.

200miler

The climb up over Daylight Pass, via the namesake Hell's Gate, is a slog of 16 miles from the Hwy 190 turn. It's pretty steady once you're up on the fan, but there are a few short stair steps so you can take a break from the slog portion of the climb. I usually use either my 23t or 21t cog and spin a compact so the gear inches are about the same as your 39x25. I classify myself as a F-O-G [fat olde guy] and do that climb pretty regularly. That gives me the slight edge - route familiarity. If I were riding it cold I would not pin all my plans on that one section of the route though. The first bit out of the gate is a run south, towards Badwater, and the Artists Drive loop. I would not under estimate this section of the ride. The loop climbs up the wall of the canyon for about 4-4½ miles and has a few short steep sections; 12-14%. The altitude at the turnoff from Badwater Rd is about -200' and the top of the loop is just under 1000'; do the maths! And the descent back to BW Rd has a nice surprise too! As roving SAG I've found more riders in "trouble" on this bit than all the rest. Since it's the first section most riders go out TOO hot and let adrenalin overrule their common sense. A sub-five hour HGH overambitious? I really don't know anything about the Poway ride, but you're going to get a bit over 1200' on the early loop, and then you get another 5800-6000' on the way over to Rhyolite and back - Daylight Pass tops out at 4315' and the west side starts at ± -200'; the east side is about 13-1400' of climbing from the NV high desert around Beatty/Rhyolite. Going into an "unknown" area under geared is not what I would do, but I'm a conservative when it comes to riding. I hedge on the side of finishing as opposed to trying for some particular time. You might CONSIDER a 27t cog set just to be on the safe side. After all, if you have and don't use it, what have you lost? BUT, if you DON'T have it and need it,.....

FWIW I work HGH as roving SAG.
YMMV
-dg

200miler

As I mentioned to calamarichris, the climb up Daylight isn't really that bad, as long as you didn't burn the candle on the Artists Drive section. One point on these long steady climbs, in my experience there isn't much of a substitute for your training preparation. I moved down into the area 8 years ago, coming from the Bay Area. I was used to short sharp climbs; think Sierra Rd., Patterson Pass Rd., Morgan Territory Rd., etc., etc., etc. My first training sessions on Salsberry, Daylight, and Towns Passes were not pretty! You really don't get any relief from the slog on these loooong "ramps". They don't have noticeable "resting" sections, false flats or other, so you are faced with a steady grind in the UP direction. Personally I believe that riding these long "grinders" has made me a much stronger climber, if I ever was considered a climber before! If you only do that climbing section "once in a while", I would strongly recommend you add it to your training plan for at least twice a week. It's better to be a bit over-prepared than under! See also my comments to him on the HGH "morning" section out to Atrtists Drive.
YMMV
-dg

sd_mike

I'll be climbing Daylight and Red Passes this Friday, should be fun, cold, but fun. 13 miles of 6%, can't say I've done that before.

thenomad

I just picked up a compact 50/34t crankset. I'll swap that out and hopefully it'll give me more options with gearing. I have a 12-27 rear cassette. I think I'll have a useable range of gears with 50t and the 34t should give me a ton of gear for climbing and even bail out options.

Anyone know good climbing routes leaving from Redlands area? I think I'm going to have to do some repeats to get 16 mile stretches of 6%+.

200miler

A compact teamed up with a 12-27 will get you up every climb in DV, save possibly the last bit of Dante's View Rd., but none of the DV rides goes up there. I generally use a 13-25 with my compact and don't really have any issues; the 25t is my bailout.

My riding buddy is a former Redlands rider and he's always mentioned the climb up 330 to Running Springs as a serious bit of work; about 14 miles IIRC.

YMMV
-dg

thenomad

I have a 53/39 right now and have done the grind up GMR with it. I just figured I'd better play it safe as stated by others and have a bail out gear. Plus, it'll come in handy to have a 110bcd crank for next cross season.
I'll look up the running springs route. Thanks!

Great signature quote BTW, from a great rider.
This AM my cold garage was enough to convinced me to go back in the house and not ride at 6AM.

LAriverRat

I don't ride in places that start with "Death".

200miler

Yeah, it's been REAL frosty here for the past 5-6 days! Overnight low's down into the teens! Daytime highs haven't been all that great either; mid-50's, and that's by mid-day! We're running about 10-15° BELOW normal for this time of year. But at least it's a "dry" cold!
YMMV
-dg

sd_mike

Daylight Pass was FUN! It was a heck of a climb via Mud Canyon, steeper than the Beatty Cutoff. I didn't get to ride down it, went via Titus Canyon. Ended with a bit over 60 miles and 8400' of climb. Just remember, MM 13 is the top.

deitman

Doing the Anaheim Hills loops are good training (E. Nohl Ranch, Canyon View, Imperial, Serrano from the 91 on the sidewalk, Canon) if you chain them together in a 25+ mile loop. Its tough enough stringing them together that you'll get a workout. Otherwise, you can simulate the grind of a 5%-6% climb by going SE on Santiago...its about a 1%-2% grade up to the top, but gear down one or two and settle into a hill climbing rhythm at 60-70 rpm with an elevated heart rate. The Silverado turnoff and the 3 miles of Maple Springs that are paved are even better...just watch those water crossings.

Those are what I train on...if you're ambitious, link the three together for 20 miles of 7%-12% steeps and 40 miles of grind with the Maple Springs 8% cherry-on-top. Working up to that will get you ready for even a Double.

jmX

For the OC folks I did manage to put together a nice ride this weekend. 78 miles, 5000 feet of climbing. Would have been easy to add another couple thousand feet of climbing down in laguna hills as well, but I was running low on time.

https://connect.garmin.com/activity/58012157

Should be a decent training for the spring 100-150 mile spring death valley ride. Will need a lot more climbing to be suitable for HGH I suspect.

The imperial/canon climb in Anaheim hills is 12% grade, 1 mile long or so, and then again in Laguna Hills the Pacific Island climb is 12% and a mile or so long. Next time I'll go down Pacific Island and back up it, which would have made it an 80 mile 5700' ride instead.