divtag

I have been on the fence between a Salsa Casseroll and a Salsa Vaya. was originally leaning Casseroll, but I have seen some beautiful Vaya builds and like the idea that it could go from road to dirt on the same ride. However, is there that multi-surface riding in OC? So much concrete. I see blog posts of epic rides on a Vaya in other places where you are into back roads in no time.

I ride mostly the river trail, Back Bay/Mountain to Sea, and PCH. The Casseroll seems better suited for this, but would a Vaya be that different on a long pavement ride? Is there anywhere nearby that I could take advantage of the Vaya mixe surface riding capabilities?

Daddy Wags

Salsa's Casseroll and Vaya are at the top of the list on my wish list. I keep going back and forth from one to the other. The Casseroll, with larger tires, could handle alot of gravel I imagine, but the Vaya could handle more loads and rougher terrain. I was originally set on the Casseroll as most all my riding will be paved but the local bike shop got me thinking more strongly about the Vaya. I live in an area, Washington's Olympic Penninsula,with miles and miles of forest service and logging roads that the Vaya would feast upon.
Some folks have been put-off by the Vaya double but I have read that Salsa will be offering a triple soon.
The general opinions seem to indicate that the Casseroll has the more alive ride, climbs better, and is more fun to ride. But the Vaya's versatility is alluring also. Some of the builds I have seen are really nice.
I'm sure a ride on each of these bikes would greatly help the decision making but I have been unable to locate a shop that has these two bikes in stock.

augustgarage

Riverside, San Diego, and even Los Angeles county have a number of mixed terrain riding opportunities (including gravel) - I'm not aware of anything similar in the OC, but then I don't ride there frequently.

I'm curious what you are expecting to get out of a Vaya or Casseroll that you couldn't get from your Cross Check?

While I haven't tried the Vaya, I own an '09 Casseroll (triple) and have put ~10,000 miles on it since last year. It's a great commuter and a pretty good rando/distance bike. The acceleration isn't ideal for fast club rides, and the weight will bog you down a little bit in the mountains - though if you've got the engine, it will do in a pinch. I've ignored Salsa's advice (the fork wasn't designed for the stress? I think this has been corrected with the '11 version) and taken it off-road many times, even including some single track. In the future, I'll probably put some Small Block 8 tires on for this kind of thing rather than trash my slicks (28mm Schwalbe Ultremo R.1) or shorten the lifespan of my commuter (27mm Ruffy Tuffy) tires...on the other hand, if/when I do the Dirty Kanza or Trans-Iowa, I'd prefer a dedicated cross/monster-cross/gravel-grinder bike for the task.

Daddy Wags

I have read comments from a few folks who own both the Surly Cross Check and the Salsa Vaya. The general feeling is the Cross Check leans more toward pavement riding than the Vaya. But, of course, alot of this is determined by how the bike are set up.

divtag

I bought the CrossCheck used (first real bike) and it was built up from the frame and after riding for over a year I realized it is setup all wrong for what I want to do. I don't do group rides, I just ride solo and cruise around Fred style. My goal by June is to ride down to SD and take the train back. I do ~40 miles on my road rides.

The CC I have has DuraAce crank 52/39, DA FD, 11-25 cassette, etc. I don't have much use for the 52 and need lower than 39. I am looking at something like the Sugino 46/36/36 or whatever and a wider cassette. The LBS said I would need new crank, new FD, new RD, new cassette, and new chain. Plus, I want different handlebars and better wheels that will take larger than 32 tires along with a dynohub. The recommendation was to sell the bike and buy something setup as I want. The LBS will swap out parts at cost for changes.

I was reading some blogs of people doing Utah mixed riding and stuff and that got me thinking about the Vaya. I am just not sure where I could get full use of it here since. We don't have a lot of those forest service roads like OR/WA/etc. I am wondering if it will be too much of a slug riding a pavement century that I am working up to.

MrClyde

I'm about to pull the trigger on the Vaya for a few reasons.

-Sram Rival
-Takes up to 42 tires, cushions the potholes on the commute and allows use on moderate trails
-disc brakes (I know I don't need them, but makes fender mounting much easier, and I can swap tires with my 29'r MTB as well)
-plenty of braze ons to do whatever I want in the future. Will be my commuter for now.

I don't have a lot of off road plans, but I like the flexibility and it seems like a very capable commuter.

Decent bike for the price it seems. If I built up a commuter/grave bike from scratch, the only thing I would do different is get something lighter, but I can't really justify the additional expense since the first thing I'll put on is panniers for commuting. Doesn't make much sense to spend twice as much to save a few lbs.

Daddy Wags

A bike shop I visited the other day, who sells the Surly and Salsa brands, made an interesting comment. He said if I wanted to make upgrades to the Salsa bikes, such as replace the BB5 brakes with BB7, Salsa has what they call a "dream build" whereby the switchouts were made at the assembly point rather than the bike shop. I'm not sure of all the particulars involved but I am going to find out more from the bike shop owner this week. This might be a good way to trick out a bike without going through the LBS switch outs.
Does any one know if the Vaya and Casseroll have similar upright riding positioning? Being in my 60's, I favor the more upright position. On the Salsa stat sheet, there doesn't seem to be much difference in head tube length and fork length but I'm not aware of all that goes into creating different riding positions.

divtag

My understanding is that both are pretty upright, with the Vaya even more than the Casseroll. They are both built for long rides in the saddle. I am just not sure how the Vaya will ride as primary paved road bike versus mixed trail bike. I'd be very interested in the Salsa swap out. Be sure to post back.

If I lived in WA/OR I'd be all over the Vaya, I wouldn't be debating the two. With the disc brakes and all of the forest roads and non-paved riding, it would be a blast. You go out and get lost for hours.

allroy71

I have a CC. I too was looking for trails that I could tie in with my road riding. I was able to ride some trails in OC, but I never felt to great on it (much better for a mountain bike). Most off road trails are just to rutty for my CC. I was training for this ride last year.
https://www.adventurecorps.com/rrr/

Also, I bought my cc from someone who put on 50/34 compact crank. I put a 12-34 mountain bike cogset on it. It works great for off road climbing. But you probably don't want to buy a new crankset!!

BTW, the Fullerton Loop is pretty fun on the CC. You can't believe how many people you will pass!!

Daddy Wags

In considering the Salsa Vaya over the Salsa Casseroll, I am concerned over the Vaya's disc brake/fork relationship. I'm told that forks with disc brakes are more heavy duty to account for the torque generated by the disc brakes. Does this beefier fork design create a harsher ride on the bike? High on my list of bike accolades is the quality of the ride.
Another bike I am interested in, the Jamis Bosanova, has disc brakes with a carbon fiber fork. Jamis states that the fork is specifically designed to control forces created my the disc brakes.
Just would like to know how significant the heavier fork affects the bike's ride. Of course, there are ways to counteract ride harshness.....tire size, air pressure....etc.

thenomad

If you do the 50 34 front with a bit wider rear and you'll cover all the gears you need from the triple. Lower low and higher high.
Same chain, same shifters, same FD RD... sounds like a no-brainer to me.

divtag

Bummer, nobody in SoCal has either in stock and Salsa is OOS for delivery. Only a couple places on-line have them left, but then I can't check them out. What's up with that? It is only April.

augustgarage

I'm assuming you checked with Topanga Creek Cycles, right? They usually have one or the other in stock.

divtag

Sure did. They sold out. Would have been worth a ~2 hour drive to check out.

voltare

I feel the need to point out Socal people's short-sightedness. If you were to leave your immediate megalopolis, you would find that 95% of california is forest roads and non-paved riding. I've lived in both areas... Even in the bay area, you don't have to ride far to find a dirt trail.

fitz3641

I live down in San Diego and bought a 2011 Vaya to replace a Trek road bike. I commute to work daily and average ~60 miles a week just from riding to/from/around work. I also take longer weekend rides (25-75 miles) mainly on the questionable San Diego area pavement.

I love my new Vaya. Love it. It's perfect for the type of riding I like to do which is almost all pavement, even with the stock tires measuring at 700x42. It's definitely not a gravel-only ride and I seem to average about the same speed on my rides as I did on a lighter aluminum Trek. I considered the Casseroll but wanted the Apex that comes with the complete Vaya. I picked up the complete bike from UniversalCycles (with a coupon) sight unseen which was a gamble, but it's paid off huge.

Flying Merkel

I'm currently riding a Nashbar framed full rigid mountain bike. I live in Costa Mesa. Bike is not fast, but is a great all-arounder. On descents, the 42 large front sprocket limits speed. Does good on dirt trails.

An old back injury limits the use of a drop bar.