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Old 08-17-12, 06:51 AM   #1
John R
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Bad Manners on SART

I commute to work on SART everyday. In the late afternoon, between 17th street (the park and Wooden bridge) and Memorie LN, there are lots of noncyclist using the trail, joggers, families, women pushing strollers, dog walkers, These people have just as much right to the trail as cyclist do. I've witnessed groups of cyclist blazing through there at 20+mph yelling at these people. Not only is this dangerous, but gives the public a bad impression of cyclist. Being curtious goes a long way and saves lives.
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Old 08-17-12, 07:58 AM   #2
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I agree they do have a right to use those trails; however, be predictable. Keep your pets and kids on a leash. Don't let your kid who barely know how to ride a bike ride on the trail. Don't walk around the path completely oblivious to your surrounding.
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Old 08-17-12, 08:36 AM   #3
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Don't let your kid who barely know how to ride a bike ride on the trail.
So the guy in the apartments off the 57 who doesn't have anywhere else to teach his kid how to ride a bike should go where...?

That family has the same rights to the trail as you do. Just as they need to not be completely oblivious to their surroundings, so, too, do you. If you see a kid who barely knows how to ride their bike on the trail, adjust your riding accordingly. The only person for whom you can make rules - especially concerning a public use feature like the SART - is you.

And asking "people" to be predictable is like spitting in the wind.
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Old 08-17-12, 08:39 AM   #4
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I agree they do have a right to use those trails; however, be predictable. Keep your pets and kids on a leash. Don't let your kid who barely know how to ride a bike ride on the trail. Don't walk around the path completely oblivious to your surrounding.
I ride the SART at least once a month. A few months ago, I got to experience this behavior from the other side. I decided to take my family on a ride to the beach so I pulled out the hybrid and kiddie trailer and off we went. There's a section heading towards PCH after EDNA park where it can get pretty fast on a down hiill. We were approached by a groupf (two abreast) of about 20 cyclists - My 10 yr old daughter was leading the way for us while one of the guys int he pack yelled "Stay on your side" She was right smack in the middle of the right side of the trail. I almost said something but she beat me to it. She yelled "you stay on your side, Lance!" She makes me so proud sometimes... I hope he realized what a d bag he was.
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Old 08-17-12, 09:01 AM   #5
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So the guy in the apartments off the 57 who doesn't have anywhere else to teach his kid how to ride a bike should go where...?

That family has the same rights to the trail as you do. Just as they need to not be completely oblivious to their surroundings, so, too, do you. If you see a kid who barely knows how to ride their bike on the trail, adjust your riding accordingly. The only person for whom you can make rules - especially concerning a public use feature like the SART - is you.

And asking "people" to be predictable is like spitting in the wind.
Sensibility? Ban please!!
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Old 08-17-12, 09:04 AM   #6
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She yelled "you stay on your side, Lance!"

I love it. You have every reason to be proud!
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Old 08-17-12, 09:10 AM   #7
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So the guy in the apartments off the 57 who doesn't have anywhere else to teach his kid how to ride a bike should go where...?
Not the river trail, that's for sure... too many opportunities for a new cyclist to go pedaling down those cement embankments into the "river"

Kids on trikes riding circles on a bike path are a PITA but they're kids! You gotta let kids be kids and not put them in danger.
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Old 08-17-12, 11:18 AM   #8
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Not the river trail, that's for sure... too many opportunities for a new cyclist to go pedaling down those cement embankments into the "river"

Kids on trikes riding circles on a bike path are a PITA but they're kids! You gotta let kids be kids and not put them in danger.
From the mentioned apartments all the way down to Edna Park (close to two mile stretch) there are no steep cement embankments next to the trail. That area is either grass with a wall separating the trail, sand by the correction facility), or green of the golfcourse.
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Old 08-17-12, 12:34 PM   #9
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That's right, Mr. Beanz.

FWIW, "off the 57" was totally anus extractus. My point was that parents teaching their kids to ride bikes have just as much right to do so on the trail as does anyone else using the trail. To think that cyclists have more rights to the trail for whatever reason is... well, it's just as silly as automobile drivers thinking they have more rights to the roads than cyclists do.
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Old 08-17-12, 01:28 PM   #10
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MUPs are for everyone, families included. If you are a serious and proficient cyclist go find a hill to climb or take a long road ride, but if you insist on riding on the MUP, respect the other users. Personally I never ride on a MUP if I can avoid it, and if I do I am mindful of the other uses and the likelihood that they will wander around on the path or even step right out into my path.

The reason I don't ride MUPs anymore doesn't have anything to do with the unpredictability of the other users however. I don't ride MUP because some of the least talented and dangerous cyclist that I have ever seem ride the MUPs at close to limits of their ability, and I am often distracted from my own pleasures because I am trying to get these rude and reckless riders to ride more responsibly. I know it is very well a waste of my time, by I feel as a veteran cyclist I have a duty to teach younger riders to ride more responsibly and to also to act as a cycling ambassador to the non-cyclists.

The south end of SART and the Santa Monica-to-Redondo Beach bike paths are as bad as any other MUPs that I have seen, but the Monon trail here in Indy is fairly close.
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Old 08-17-12, 01:30 PM   #11
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From the mentioned apartments all the way down to Edna Park (close to two mile stretch) there are no steep cement embankments next to the trail. That area is either grass with a wall separating the trail, sand by the correction facility), or green of the golfcourse.
Well, you're the mayor, you know the terrain better than I do.
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Old 08-17-12, 01:53 PM   #12
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.... are lots of noncyclist using the trail, joggers, families, women pushing strollers, dog walkers, These people have just as much right to the trail as cyclist do......
SART for noncyclist=PCH for cyclists.
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Old 08-17-12, 02:59 PM   #13
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I have ridden by myself and in groups on several of the MUPs in Orange County. I feel safe riding half fast by myself, because I can and do slow down or maneuver as needed. I don't feel safe in a group, simply because I constantly have to be aware of those riding six inches away from me, and I cannot just slow down or maneuver however I want.

When I ride in a group it's usually with the OC Rebels, and their rides are mostly on streets with bike lanes. In my mind those are much better places for group rides than a MUP.

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Old 08-17-12, 03:01 PM   #14
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SART for noncyclist=PCH for cyclists.
Whenever I'm on PCH I feel like I have a target on my back that only drunks driving large SUVs can see. Plus, it's pretty flat, which is boring to me, and the traffic is so noisy that it ruins the outdoors, wind-in-my-face experience.
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Old 08-17-12, 03:13 PM   #15
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mountain bike...problem solved.

You are welcome!
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Private docent led mountain bike rides through Limestone Canyon. Go to letsgooutside.org and register today! Also available: hikes, equestrian rides and family events as well as trail maintenance and science study.
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Old 08-17-12, 04:20 PM   #16
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SART for noncyclist=PCH for cyclists.
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Old 08-17-12, 06:08 PM   #17
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mountain bike...problem solved.

You are welcome!
Mountain biking is awesome!! However, teaching your kid to ride a bike on a MUP close to home seems to make more sense.

Thank you.
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Old 08-17-12, 10:27 PM   #18
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The posted speed limit on SART is 10 mph, so it dosen't matter if that child, or jogger or walker is on the wrong side of the trail, or if that child crossed in your path, if your going over 10 mph you are just as at fault as him. The point here is safety!! Have you ever had to help a child with a head injury, or a broken limb? Its something you never want have to experiance. There are places and times that you can go fast on the trail. 5pm in the afternoon between 17th and Memory lane is not one of them.
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Old 08-17-12, 11:18 PM   #19
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The posted speed limit on SART is 10 mph
Slippery Slope here John! I have no idea of how slow or fast I ride. No speedometer.
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Old 08-18-12, 12:20 AM   #20
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We all love to go fast. It's unrealistic to think anyone would obey the 10 mph speed limit. The point I'm trying to make here is, there's a time and place for going fast, just not in the afternoon when the trail is crowded with the general public . Most serious cyclist look the same, colorfull tight lycra clothes, exotic road bikes. People love to stereotype cyclist as, rude, premadona, A**holes.When you scream "on your left" while passing a 10 year old kid on a beach cruiser, you fit that stereotype. I'm not that way. I am proud of my riding and accomplishments. But I also respect other peoples feelngs and rights and safety. Just keep your head up, smile and acknowledge people, and enjoy riding. Then when the coast is clear, put your head down and hammer your brains out.

Last edited by John R; 08-18-12 at 12:28 AM. Reason: misspelling
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Old 08-18-12, 03:26 AM   #21
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The reality is, we have no control over how safe or unsafe other people are. So all we can do is be as safe as we can, and keep a positive attitude.

I ride defensively, and I have no hesitation to slow down when I am passing kids, dogs, or moms pushing strollers, or give extra space to people riding double file.
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Old 08-18-12, 06:15 AM   #22
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It takes practice to become courteous.

A good place to practice this is the MUP in Long Beach along the shoreline over the weekend. At 2nd Street, to Bayshore Avenue and then begins the MUP which takes you through a heavily traveled route for all kinds of people. There's just more variety than the Huntington Beach MUP. I estimate about 5 miles and it will take you to the Los Angeles River bike trail. On this MUP there are times that you can go 20 mph and then there are times that you really have to slow down and be on the watch. This is a good path for the urban rider. Besides, you get the L.A. River to Rio Hondo path to open up and ride for many miles.

I usually park a ways before that near PCH and Studebaker Road behind Mimi's Cafe near the Seal Beach Yacht Club. There's a public bathroom nearby the Schooner or Later restaurant. Lots of riders park near that inner parking lot near the Seal Beach Yacht Club.

You have to see yourself as just part of the society that you live in. Being courteous is a virtue and virtues need to be practiced before it becomes a habit...and then a lifestyle for a destiny.
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Old 08-18-12, 09:30 PM   #23
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It takes practice to become courteous.

A good place to practice this is the MUP in Long Beach along the shoreline over the weekend. At 2nd Street, to Bayshore Avenue and then begins the MUP which takes you through a heavily traveled route for all kinds of people. There's just more variety than the Huntington Beach MUP. I estimate about 5 miles and it will take you to the Los Angeles River bike trail. On this MUP there are times that you can go 20 mph and then there are times that you really have to slow down and be on the watch. This is a good path for the urban rider. Besides, you get the L.A. River to Rio Hondo path to open up and ride for many miles.

I usually park a ways before that near PCH and Studebaker Road behind Mimi's Cafe near the Seal Beach Yacht Club. There's a public bathroom nearby the Schooner or Later restaurant. Lots of riders park near that inner parking lot near the Seal Beach Yacht Club.

You have to see yourself as just part of the society that you live in. Being courteous is a virtue and virtues need to be practiced before it becomes a habit...and then a lifestyle for a destiny.
We've probably seen each other in that area. The Alamitos Bay farmers' market I love riding to is across Marina from Whole Paycheck.
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Old 08-19-12, 09:16 AM   #24
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Here we go again. Somebody passed me too fast and I'm offended. I have a right to let my kids play in the middle of the bike trail. I have a right to walk my dog on one side of the trail as I walk on the other side. I have the right to not pay any attention or be any bit aware of my surroundings. I have the right to stop and camp in the middle of the trail. I have the right to be startled because of wearing my headphones/texting/celltalking and then yell and cuss. I have the right to scream at you because I am unaware. Your too fast is my to slow. This is more about common sense. Teach your children/yourselves two things and all the drama is over. 1.) Look BEFORE you turn. 2.) Ditch the headphones as it takes all your faculties to just be aware of your surroundings and act accdordingly. If somebody is passing you get over. That guy is probably a superior athelete, should be respected, so move over. If he is a flash in the pan you can pass him back soon enough. . If a pack of riders comes up on you, move over to the right and let them pass. If it scares you, pull off and let them pass. Bring small kids to the park and let them get comfortable riding. Teach them to jump curbs and bunny hop gopher holes. Give them the skills to ride the River trail. My daughter is just learning to drive. I have not sent her out on the 5 freeway and let her go. She is honing her skills trying not to pull out in front of cars, around our neighborhood. Before that we drove in big parking lots. Same thing. I'm complaining because of the big mean riders going fast when I have no business being out here. I have the right to be here! I have the right to learn deadly lessons right out in the middle of the road. I have the right to not teach my kids anything, and just complain. I have the right to yell while I'm an obstuction. I have the right to vote for Obama! But I won't. I'm going to pray a little and go out and teach my daughter how to drive on the freeway. I have that right too. Look out. P.S. This is just a rant from a daily rider, nothing personal, just my own view. Just because I have the right to sound off doesn't mean I won't try it....
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Old 08-29-12, 11:09 AM   #25
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I've witnessed groups of cyclist blazing through there at 20+mph yelling at these people. Not only is this dangerous, but gives the public a bad impression of cyclist. Being curtious goes a long way and saves lives.
To be fair, this is just not a So Cal problem. It seems like there are bad mannered cyclists everywhere...even in the cycling mecca of the world:http://www.spitsnieuws.nl/archives/b...oor-aso-racers
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