Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > > >

Southern California Southern California

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-15-12, 02:13 PM   #1
Mr. Beanz
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Mr. Beanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Upland Ca
Bikes: Lemond Chambery/Cannondale R-900/Trek 8000 MTB/Burley Duet tandem
Posts: 20,030
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Don't Do This!!!

So I am a SART rider and we all know that I am a dangerous sucky riders that doesn't know how to ride in traffic. Yeah, yeah, all you ROAD riders are skilled riders that avoid the trail because of riders like me.

But I must say a few weeks ago we rode a stretch of PCH. Along the way I saw a few riders do this and I've seen a few others do the same as I haved joined others in rides over the years. What gets me is that some of these riders use flashing lights, front and back and every other safety gizmo they can buy. Not to mention that the converstion on the ride is about how safe they ride while fighting unsafe drivers the entire time on the bike.

But when we approach an intersection with a turn lane, they take the inside! Sometimes while vehicular traffic has a green right turn arrow while we have a red light in the straight direction.

I've seen quite a few riders do this. Just a few weeks ago on our century, we were lined up (green arrows) waiting to go straight. Behind a speeding cyclist approached just as the light was about to turn green. An SUV at a red light ready to make a right hand turn. The light turned green and just the SUV launched into the right turn, the speeding cyclist squeezed though on the right between the curb and the SUV.

Luckily for the cyclist, the SUV was paying attention to his surroundings and slammed on his brakes before impact or I would have had some graphic footage and pics.

We were lined up (green stars) while the stupid lucky rider was on the right (red arrow) doing about 20 mph when he squeezed through.




turn1 by mrbeanz1, on Flickr
Mr. Beanz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-12, 02:33 PM   #2
alicestrong
Pedal pusher...
 
alicestrong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Bikes: I've got a bunch...
Posts: 7,767
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
http://bicyclesafe.com/
__________________
May you live long, live strong, and live happy!
alicestrong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-12, 02:35 PM   #3
alicestrong
Pedal pusher...
 
alicestrong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Bikes: I've got a bunch...
Posts: 7,767
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
...oh and of course I don't agree with what you said in the beginning but I see your tongue is planted firmly in your cheek...
__________________
May you live long, live strong, and live happy!
alicestrong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-12, 04:38 PM   #4
Beachgrad05
Just Keep Pedaling
 
Beachgrad05's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lakewood, CA
Bikes: 99 Schwinn Mesa GS MTB, 11 Trek 7.2 FX WSD, 12 Trek 4.5 Madone, 15 Trek Domane 5.9 Dura-Ace
Posts: 2,775
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
But when we approach an intersection with a turn lane, they take the inside! Sometimes while vehicular traffic has a green right turn arrow while we have a red light in the straight direction.

I've seen quite a few riders do this. Just a few weeks ago on our century, we were lined up (green arrows) waiting to go straight. Behind a speeding cyclist approached just as the light was about to turn green. An SUV at a red light ready to make a right hand turn. The light turned green and just the SUV launched into the right turn, the speeding cyclist squeezed though on the right between the curb and the SUV.

Luckily for the cyclist, the SUV was paying attention to his surroundings and slammed on his brakes before impact or I would have had some graphic footage and pics.

We were lined up (green stars) while the stupid lucky rider was on the right (red arrow) doing about 20 mph when he squeezed through.




turn1 by mrbeanz1, on Flickr
Beanz - at first I thought you meant that they were riding where you have the green stars on your picture as my thinking is curb is OUTSIDE and left lane is INSIDE...

So at first I thought you meant they were "inside" from the turn lane and thus to the left of the turn lane....which would be the correct way to handle this sort of traffic lane situation.
Beachgrad05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-12, 08:44 PM   #5
Mr. Beanz
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Mr. Beanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Upland Ca
Bikes: Lemond Chambery/Cannondale R-900/Trek 8000 MTB/Burley Duet tandem
Posts: 20,030
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ah yes, BG, I can see where my inside and outside are confusing.

We are the green and the scary dude is the red.
Mr. Beanz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-12, 09:00 PM   #6
CbadRider
Administrator
 
CbadRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: On the bridge with Picard
Bikes: Specialized Allez, Specialized Sirrus
Posts: 5,962
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
I have seen something similar when driving to work. A cyclist was in the left turn lane in front of me, on the left side of the lane. When it's time to go, he turns left into the left lane of the cross street while I turn into the right lane, then he tries to swerve over to the right side of the road to get in the bike lane. I had a feeling he didn't have a clue as to what he was doing so I gave him plenty of room. He might not be so lucky next time.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerum 525 View Post
Now get on your cheap bike and give me a double century. You walking can of Crisco!!

Forum Guidelines *click here*
CbadRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-12, 09:27 PM   #7
009jim
Senior Member
 
009jim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Bikes: Giant CRX3, Trek 7100
Posts: 1,288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Where I ride on my way to work, the authorities have figured this out. The bike lane is up against the curb, but the cars that want to turn are held up by a red arrow, which holds them there for long enough until all the cyclists have gotten across the intersection. This is a major cycle route from the city though.
009jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-12, 09:40 PM   #8
ZippyThePinhead
Slacker
 
ZippyThePinhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: North Orange County, in Southern California
Bikes: 1986 Peugeot Orient Express, 1987 Trek 560 Pro, 1983 SR Semi Pro, 2010 Motobecane Le Champion Titanium, 2011 Trek Fuel EX 8
Posts: 1,065
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
That's a nice little diagram. How did you generate it? You're talking about this intersection, no?
ZippyThePinhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-12, 10:09 PM   #9
Mr. Beanz
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Mr. Beanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Upland Ca
Bikes: Lemond Chambery/Cannondale R-900/Trek 8000 MTB/Burley Duet tandem
Posts: 20,030
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZippyThePinhead View Post
That's a nice little diagram. How did you generate it? You're talking about this intersection, no?

Not any specific intersection, just an image in my head.

I used a blank jpeg file then drew lines etc in the paint program on the 'puter


I have a photo edit program (free on the net) called Serif Photoplus SE, somewhat of a photoshop wannabe so I can clone images onto other images as well.




turn2 by mrbeanz1, on Flickr

Serif program


ed1 by mrbeanz1, on Flickr

Last edited by Mr. Beanz; 09-15-12 at 10:22 PM.
Mr. Beanz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-12, 10:17 PM   #10
Flying Merkel
Senior Member
 
Flying Merkel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Costa Mesa CA
Bikes:
Posts: 2,639
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
My philosophy is if you are not turning right, stay out of the right turn lane. It's a trap. Cars don't always expect you there.
Flying Merkel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-12, 10:55 PM   #11
Beachgrad05
Just Keep Pedaling
 
Beachgrad05's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lakewood, CA
Bikes: 99 Schwinn Mesa GS MTB, 11 Trek 7.2 FX WSD, 12 Trek 4.5 Madone, 15 Trek Domane 5.9 Dura-Ace
Posts: 2,775
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
Ah yes, BG, I can see where my inside and outside are confusing.

We are the green and the scary dude is the red.
The picture was very helpful in learning up my confusion.
Beachgrad05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-12, 11:04 PM   #12
John R
so cal com
 
John R's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Yorba Linda Calif
Bikes: Trek hybrid commuter, Specialized Tarmac, Cannondale Cad 6, Shwinn Homegrown MB, Specialized FSR MB Cannondale Tandem
Posts: 419
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hey Mr. Beanz, I totally agree. I ride 200 miles a week to work and drive a truck for a living. This story really hit home for me, from both perspectives as a driver and a cyclist. http://www.coronadelmartoday.com/309...bayside-drive/
This woman cyclist was in the right hand lane, the truck driver apparently didn't see her while turning right. If you read the story it will bring tears to your eyes. I love cycling and advocate everyone riding, no matter what level you are. But please be safe, realize cars don't always see you. One little mistake by either cyclist or driver can bring ruin and sadness to the families of these people.
John R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-12, 11:09 PM   #13
Seano Hermano
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Bowling Green, OH
Bikes: 1982 Panasonic DX-2000 12 Speed
Posts: 54
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Your drawing looks like an on/off ramp. Do you (or most cyclists) commonly ride on the highway? I thought that was illegal in most states. Care to explain further?

On another thread, people were talking about riding behind tractor-trailers, and log trucks. Although, I realize this would be much more common on larger cities.
Seano Hermano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-12, 11:22 PM   #14
Mr. Beanz
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Mr. Beanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Upland Ca
Bikes: Lemond Chambery/Cannondale R-900/Trek 8000 MTB/Burley Duet tandem
Posts: 20,030
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seano Hermano View Post
Your drawing looks like an on/off ramp. Do you (or most cyclists) commonly ride on the highway? I thought that was illegal in most states. Care to explain further?

Further explain? How much further ha ha! I never said anything about a freeway and several places I mention intersections.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
But I must say a few weeks ago we rode a stretch of PCH. Along the way I saw a few riders do this................................
But when we approach an intersection with a turn lane, they take the inside.............................. Sometimes while vehicular traffic has a green right turn arrow while we have a red light in the straight direction. ........................., we were lined up (green arrows) waiting to go straight. Behind a speeding cyclist approached just as the light was about to turn green. An SUV at a red light ready to make a right hand turn. The light turned green and just the SUV launched into the right turn, the speeding cyclist squeezed though on the right between the curb and the SUV.
Mr. Beanz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-12, 11:30 PM   #15
Seano Hermano
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Bowling Green, OH
Bikes: 1982 Panasonic DX-2000 12 Speed
Posts: 54
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sorry, I read your whole post; I guess I was judging your art skills too much. JK

I thought maybe you would say something like certain highways (as far as how busy, etc.) were allowed while others weren't.
Seano Hermano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-12, 12:18 AM   #16
Mr. Beanz
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Mr. Beanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Upland Ca
Bikes: Lemond Chambery/Cannondale R-900/Trek 8000 MTB/Burley Duet tandem
Posts: 20,030
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seano Hermano View Post
Sorry, I read your whole post; I guess I was judging your art skills too much. JK

I thought maybe you would say something like certain highways (as far as how busy, etc.) were allowed while others weren't.
Art skills? I'm lucky I can draw a straight line with a computer program!

But I will say that there are many intersections with set up like this, big white V painted structure around here.

I have ridden on the fwy too. On Cool Breeze (Ventura?) and the 111(?) heading into Palm Springs on an MS ride years ago. Not to mention that some riders here (not me) may have ridden on the 91 near Green River.


Here is one on PCH. Another about 100 yards from this one.


inter by mrbeanz1, on Flickr

Last edited by Mr. Beanz; 09-16-12 at 12:21 AM.
Mr. Beanz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-12, 12:30 AM   #17
Mr. Beanz
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Mr. Beanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Upland Ca
Bikes: Lemond Chambery/Cannondale R-900/Trek 8000 MTB/Burley Duet tandem
Posts: 20,030
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I dunno, looking at my diagram draws from memory don't really look much different from the real thing.



art by mrbeanz1, on Flickr
Mr. Beanz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-12, 02:50 AM   #18
Seano Hermano
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Bowling Green, OH
Bikes: 1982 Panasonic DX-2000 12 Speed
Posts: 54
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
No, I think it looks fairly accurate now that I see the comparison.

I guess they do have that sort of thing in certain parts of Columbus, OH. I guess I'm just not as used to it, being trapped in a tiny town amongst the cornfields of northwest ohio.
Seano Hermano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-12, 10:52 AM   #19
TrojanHorse 
SuperGimp
 
TrojanHorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Whittier, CA
Bikes: Specialized Roubaix
Posts: 11,310
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
I can think of a few reasons why that might be challenging.

1) on a road with high speed traffic it can be challenging to get over to where you "should" be, especially if the road is up hill and you're going 10 while traffic is going 45+. I will absolutely stay on the right in that situation, as much as I'd rather not, but I'll also sit there and let the turning traffic turn before attempting to cross the street. If you do go straight, as you should, cars also have an ugly tendency to go by you in the straight lane and then right hook you to get in the turn lane, even if you are riding the way you are supposed to be riding. There's a lot of room in your drawing but there isn't always that much room so it can be complicated.
2) What do you do when there is a right then lane, and then a combo right turn / straight lane? I generally go for the middle of the two lanes and go straight but it's perfectly conceivable that a car could right hook me at that intersection, so I will usually stop in front of all the cars (or behind them) so as to either be more visible or it doesn't matter.

If you're riding on streets and intersections don't make you as nervous as a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs then you're half asleep. That site Alice linked is a good refresher read.
TrojanHorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-12, 11:20 AM   #20
Beachgrad05
Just Keep Pedaling
 
Beachgrad05's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lakewood, CA
Bikes: 99 Schwinn Mesa GS MTB, 11 Trek 7.2 FX WSD, 12 Trek 4.5 Madone, 15 Trek Domane 5.9 Dura-Ace
Posts: 2,775
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrojanHorse View Post
I can think of a few reasons why that might be challenging.

1) on a road with high speed traffic it can be challenging to get over to where you "should" be, especially if the road is up hill and you're going 10 while traffic is going 45+. I will absolutely stay on the right in that situation, as much as I'd rather not, but I'll also sit there and let the turning traffic turn before attempting to cross the street. If you do go straight, as you should, cars also have an ugly tendency to go by you in the straight lane and then right hook you to get in the turn lane, even if you are riding the way you are supposed to be riding. There's a lot of room in your drawing but there isn't always that much room so it can be complicated.
2) What do you do when there is a right then lane, and then a combo right turn / straight lane? I generally go for the middle of the two lanes and go straight but it's perfectly conceivable that a car could right hook me at that intersection, so I will usually stop in front of all the cars (or behind them) so as to either be more visible or it doesn't matter.

If you're riding on streets and intersections don't make you as nervous as a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs then you're half asleep. That site Alice linked is a good refresher read.
In the LAB safety class I took they said cyclists should take the rightmost lane that serves your destination...so you would use the lane that goes straight/right and to take the lane so no room for a vehicle to get next to you and right hook you. Proceed straight and vehicles behind can take their right.

I agree that if it is not safe to move over to where you should be you stay to the right and stop on shoulder if need be until there is a break in traffic allowing movement to where need to be to proceed safely thru intersection.

Last edited by Beachgrad05; 09-16-12 at 11:22 AM. Reason: Clarity
Beachgrad05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-12, 12:02 PM   #21
Dunbar
Senior Member
 
Dunbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SoCal
Bikes: Roubaix SL4 Expert , Cervelo S2
Posts: 2,991
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
I agree with Trojanhorse, it can be tough to transition back into fast traffic. Especially if the bike lane our shoulder ends and dumps you into a right turn lane. Unless you're a fearless "take-the-laner" in all situations sometimes it's just hard to avoid ending up there but I'm extremely attentive in that situation and monitor the traffic behind me in my mirror. In the picture Beanz posted I would actually ride in the area between the turn lane and through lane (with the V's) if I needed to.

Last edited by Dunbar; 09-16-12 at 12:05 PM.
Dunbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-12, 02:11 PM   #22
skidder
Journeyman Nerd
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Orange County, California
Bikes: A lot . . . from classic crap to modern mediocraty
Posts: 472
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Beanz;

Referencing the Sarah Leaf accident thread - your diagrams (and that pic with the dedicated right turn lane) are typical of what the PCH/Bayside Drive intersection looks like, except no 'hashed' area between the right turn and thru-lane.
skidder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-12, 03:33 PM   #23
Mr. Beanz
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Mr. Beanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Upland Ca
Bikes: Lemond Chambery/Cannondale R-900/Trek 8000 MTB/Burley Duet tandem
Posts: 20,030
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
it's just hard to avoid ending up there but I'm extremely attentive in that situation and monitor the traffic behind me in my mirror. In the picture Beanz posted I would actually ride in the area between the turn lane and through lane (with the V's) if I needed to.

+1........I've been in that situation many times, even with Gina and maybe a few others on my wheel.

I am a STRONG believer in using arm signals while riding in traffic. I will modify my speed adjusting to traffic as much as I can and if I have to, leave my arm out there for a freaking hour signaling my intentions of moving left into the thru lane until an approaching driver slows and allows me to merge left. But I am looking back and making sure we are on the same page.

Many do and I've never had a problem with one helping me out. I see a ton of riders ontehroad without signals and i'ts hard to tell what they want to do. Maybe the drivers that shield me are cyclists too, who knows but I do the same for cyclists when I see them signal or show signs of wanting to merge over.
Mr. Beanz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-12, 03:35 PM   #24
Mr. Beanz
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Mr. Beanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Upland Ca
Bikes: Lemond Chambery/Cannondale R-900/Trek 8000 MTB/Burley Duet tandem
Posts: 20,030
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by skidder View Post
Beanz;

Referencing the Sarah Leaf accident thread - your diagrams (and that pic with the dedicated right turn lane) are typical of what the PCH/Bayside Drive intersection looks like, except no 'hashed' area between the right turn and thru-lane.
I wondered about that but the article says she and the driver were both turning and he just ran her down from behind. That's pretty bad!
Mr. Beanz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-12, 07:51 PM   #25
Jan Feetz
de oranje
 
Jan Feetz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Almelo
Bikes: ItalVega Casati Coppi
Posts: 309
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
So I am a SART rider and we all know that I am a dangerous sucky riders that doesn't know how to ride in traffic. Yeah, yeah, all you ROAD riders are skilled riders that avoid the trail because of riders like me.
HaHaHa!
Jan Feetz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:16 PM.