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  1. #1
    de oranje Jan Feetz's Avatar
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    !Avoid PCH thru Newport Beach!

    Follow up to the two recent deadly accidents. It is not very safe thru there:

    http://www.dailypilot.com/news/tn-dp...,7934255.story
    "fietser tijdens de week, wielrenner op Zaterdag en Zondag"

  2. #2
    Senior Member Genaro's Avatar
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    I've often wondered why they wouldn't put those barriers, similar to those they have further south ?

  3. #3
    Despite all my rage, I am rooftest's Avatar
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    Before everyone goes out and buys rollers, and restricts all their rides to MUPs, I think it's appropriate to point out the HUGE amount of cyclists on PCH. Also - the spot of that second fatality (Bayside and PCH) has nice, wide bike lanes.

    Just by playing the percentages, you'll have more fatalities there. Nobody, to my knowledge, has ever died on a bike while descending Camino de Bryant in Yorba Linda - but it's sure as hell not safer than PCH. (about 12% grade for a mile; with driveways on each side.)

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    "Ditto" what rooftest posted above. Just become more attentive to your surroundings when going through those crowded, narrow street areas of Newport Beach (Mariner's Mile and Corona Del Mar) and you should be OK. Also try and get out early in the mornings (a lot less traffic) and avoid the place completely on holiday weekends (July 4 and LAbor Day are the worst!). Same goes for all those other areas along PCH thought Orange County that have some constricted roadways and curbside parking: Sunset Beach, Seal Beach, Huntington Beach downtown, Laguna Beach (my personal pick for most dangerous section of PCH), Dana Point, and San Clemente.

  5. #5
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    I live on San Clemente, and the del mar/"triangle" area is really bad. bars,cars,and cell phones all add up to not just for cyclist but every body.

  6. #6
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    Indeed there are thousands of cyclists riding PCH through Newport every day. The more cyclists there are, the more visible we are, and studies (Pucher, et al) show the safer we will be.

    But nobody wants to be one of the unlucky few, and PCH through Newport has a terrible safety record. We're working very hard to change this, but it takes time and needs your support. Please come to our Bike Safety Committee meetings and make public comments at our city council meetings. The city has to get the message that they are responsible for the souls on their roads, constituents or not.

    At the very least, come to the memorial ride on Sun. Oct. 28, for Sarah Leaf and Dr. Kit Campion.

    Finally, the city is matching donations 3:1 for the Bike Safety Improvement Fund, up to $450,000. This is a substantial amount of money that could pay a salary for a bike-ped coordinator, and infrastructure improvements.
    Last edited by mattotoole; 09-28-12 at 08:05 AM.
    bikeNewportBeach.org
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    Coming soon: bikeomatic.com

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    Mattotoole: Would you ahve a link to any bike safety studies the City of NB did that mentions the sharrows? It'd be interesting to see what the write-up said about those. Personally, I can't see where they would help, and that they might create even more problems. The mariners Mile/CdM areas are already 'tight' streets to get through, with lots for either a driver/bicyclist to stay aware of (curb parking-opening car doors, pedestrians & jaywalkers galore, traffic lights, narrow lanes, etc), and sharrows might just add still another distraction.
    The link to the OTS website stats is interesting, but it only compares cities of similar size (compare to Bay Area cities?). Might be better to look at nearby cities, such as Huntington Beach/Seal bEach, LAguna, etc since PCH runs through them, too, and see what the bicycle accident rate is in those. Might be a better comparison. The OTS stats are a start, but more local info might be better.

  8. #8
    Member Datsun Nut's Avatar
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    I rode PCH through Newport last week and had a great ride. Traffic was nice and no close calls. I live in Riverside and all over this town I see yellow signs saying "Share the road" with a picture of a cyclist on it. You would think with the bicycle traffic PCH has in that area they would at least put signs up.
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  9. #9
    de oranje Jan Feetz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattotoole View Post
    Indeed there are thousands of cyclists riding PCH through Newport every day.
    ....uh, Thousands every day? that amount seems awfully high. Perhaps hundreds.
    "fietser tijdens de week, wielrenner op Zaterdag en Zondag"

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Feetz View Post
    ....uh, Thousands every day? that amount seems awfully high. Perhaps hundreds.
    If you have some information that we don't, please share.

    Or maybe you can volunteer to help us with the counts. We have a nice form to use, plus Frank has been working on an app.

    I personally counted nearly 300 in 90 minutes at PCH and Riverside, on a typical midweek day.
    bikeNewportBeach.org
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    Coming soon: bikeomatic.com

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidder View Post
    Mattotoole: Would you ahve a link to any bike safety studies the City of NB did that mentions the sharrows? It'd be interesting to see what the write-up said about those. Personally, I can't see where they would help, and that they might create even more problems. The mariners Mile/CdM areas are already 'tight' streets to get through, with lots for either a driver/bicyclist to stay aware of (curb parking-opening car doors, pedestrians & jaywalkers galore, traffic lights, narrow lanes, etc), and sharrows might just add still another distraction.
    The link to the OTS website stats is interesting, but it only compares cities of similar size (compare to Bay Area cities?). Might be better to look at nearby cities, such as Huntington Beach/Seal bEach, LAguna, etc since PCH runs through them, too, and see what the bicycle accident rate is in those. Might be a better comparison. The OTS stats are a start, but more local info might be better.
    skidder,

    NBPD has been giving excellent monthly reports at the bike safety committee meetings. Their stats are being used for infrastructure improvements, enforcement, and education efforts. Unfortunately there's nothing to link to. Sgt. Damon Psaros did the grand report and presentation, which he may share if you email him. You can also come to a bike safety committee meeting (this Monday!) and see what's actually happening.

    The stats we pulled from OTS/SWITRS were to get the city's attention, and we did. But a road is a road and traffic is traffic -- car, truck, bike, or pedestrian. All should be accommodated and kept safe, whatever the mix for a particular city.

    The types of crashes we have in CDM -- lots of doorings -- are well addressed by sharrows, especially since there's not much else we can do, except further traffic calming. We're working on that too.

    As far as I'm concerned, sharrows are the tested and vetted state of the art, for situations like CDM. I'm not getting into a debate about it.

    Mariner's Mile is a different situation from CDM. The city does not control PCH between Jamboree and Newport Bl. Caltrans does, and we're still (hopefully) working things out with them.

    Everyone please come to our meetings if you can. Newport's electeds, staff, and press need to see new faces. Pressure from outside the city by cyclists who ride through may also help force change.

    At least come to the Memorial Ride on the 28th.

    And follow bikeNewportBeach.org

    I'm not the go-to guy anymore. I've just moved to Potomac, MD.
    Last edited by mattotoole; 09-29-12 at 03:36 PM.
    bikeNewportBeach.org
    Virginia Bicycling Federation (www.vabike.org)
    Coming soon: bikeomatic.com

  12. #12
    Senior Member Garfield Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattotoole View Post
    If you have some information that we don't, please share.

    Or maybe you can volunteer to help us with the counts. We have a nice form to use, plus Frank has been working on an app.

    I personally counted nearly 300 in 90 minutes at PCH and Riverside, on a typical midweek day.
    Let's see. If we have a group ride of approximately 25 riders going through Huntington and Newport over a weekend ride, and then we see similar groups every five minutes, then for one hour there would be 300 for that one hour. Then take that for 8 hours, it would be 2,400 riders.

  13. #13
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    mattotoole;

    Not trying to turn this into a polarized debate, just like to see all the info. Info can (and usually is) skewed either for particualr purposes, or just by the way a person looks at it.

    FWIW: A comparison of HB and NB. Neighboring Huntington Beach had a bicycling planning 'open house' back in May to present an update to the bicycling portion of the citys master transportation plan. They had maps, including one that showed where the most accidents occured. The four highest were Brookhurst/Adams, Brookhurst/Hamilton, Springdale/Edinger, Warner/PCH. The first two probably hadd a high accident rate since the City restriped those intersections to cram in more left turn lanes, thus eliminating the wide shoulder area; if you're not aware of it, you bicycle/drive into them and suddenly encounter narrowing lanes and loss of shoulder. They also have odd traffic light patterns that change multiple times during the day. The second two are 'odd' intersections that have 'road furniture' in them; islands that create dedicated right turn lanes, but make the intersections more complex to navigate. UNfortuantely the City doesn't ahve these available on their website, and there have been no updates (they had a sign-up sheet for getting e-mail updates, but I haven't received any since that meeting). These seem to be similar to NB in that certain stretches of road become constricted as you approach them, and you jsut have to be more attentive ; in NB its long stretches, in HB it intersections. Just my take on all this.

    Cheers

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