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  1. #26
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    You know who are the ones to be scared of on base? The wound up Marine Wives who are happy to swerve at cyclists and flip them off, too.

  2. #27
    Unobtanium-Based Lifeform calamarichris's Avatar
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    In general, the Marines & others who drive on Pendleton are per capita MUCH more polite and safety conscious than the ambient traffic in SoCal, but the only two incidents I've encountered have been in situations you describe, Bikeme.

    It's their base and we're fortunate to be permitted there at all, so I usually just flash them a peace sign (which could be taken as an acerbic response. )

  3. #28
    Senior Member Chaco's Avatar
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    I've ridden through Pendleton over 20 times, and I have yet to have a bad encounter with anyone. In fact, I feel a lot safer there than I do riding through Rancho Santa Fe, with its torn up roads and residents who are furious at cyclists hindering them from getting to Starbucks on time.
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  4. #29
    Senior Member Gallo's Avatar
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    I have ridden the base numerous times as well, never once have I had an issue. This incident is a grim reminder that accidents do happen and as cyclists we are at an extreme disadvantage.
    Last edited by Gallo; 08-09-13 at 07:45 PM.
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  5. #30
    Administrator CbadRider's Avatar
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    The latest reports have the bus driver at fault for trying to pass the cyclists and swerving into them.

    http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/...n-crash-heinz/
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  6. #31
    Unobtanium-Based Lifeform calamarichris's Avatar
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    Still no mention of the cyclists' position in the lane, but it is curious that the bus had to enter the northbound lanes to get around them.
    I can't think of a single point on the roads through Pendleton that isn't wide enough for a vehicle to get around me when I'm riding FRAP, (which I always do) without having to cross the center divide.
    Last edited by calamarichris; 08-10-13 at 10:35 AM.

  7. #32
    Senior Member Chaco's Avatar
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    I almost got creamed by a reticulating bus in the UCSD area. The driver pulled out in the opposite lane to pass me, and then cut back in. The tail end of the bus sandwiched me between it and the curb with only about an inch to spare. The driver was oblivious, of course.

    While most bus drivers I've encountered have been great, there are a few that are real a$$hats.

    I'm willing to bet that this is a direct result of outsourcing drivers to a 3rd company. That way the transit district can wash their hands of any responsibility.
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  8. #33
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    Sadly, I knew the rider killed. I didn't know him well; but did race against him in CX and have raced in the same field with his wife as well.
    I really feel for the kids who will grow up without their father.
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  9. #34
    Senior Member Mike F's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaco View Post
    I almost got creamed by a reticulating bus in the UCSD area. The driver pulled out in the opposite lane to pass me, and then cut back in. The tail end of the bus sandwiched me between it and the curb with only about an inch to spare. The driver was oblivious, of course.

    While most bus drivers I've encountered have been great, there are a few that are real a$$hats.

    I'm willing to bet that this is a direct result of outsourcing drivers to a 3rd company. That way the transit district can wash their hands of any responsibility.
    The majority I run into are pretty responsible, one driver even waves me through at the 4-way if we hit it the same time. Its around 0430 so all of us riders, walkers, joggers, kamikaze driving newspaper carriers pretty much know each other. I agree on the out sourcing, the bottom line is priority. Meet stated goals in the contracts or be fined. If the bus was at fault, this incident will sure negate a lot of the perceived savings. I also believe we are not hearing more about this because the North County Times and Union Tribune are owned by Manchester who despises Unions.

    Again condolences to the family and a speedy recovery to those that were hit.
    Last edited by Mike F; 08-11-13 at 10:01 AM.
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  10. #35
    Float, HAMMER, jog markg's Avatar
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    An accident claim has been posted by the attorney (Richard Duquette) for one of the riders, including pictures of the accident location and screen shots from the on-board video from the bus (I caution the stills from the bus can be rather haunting....)
    http://www.911law.com/documents/Pret...r_Redacted.pdf


    Road is narrow in this location, constrained by guardrails on either side. Contrary to the NCTD claims that it was a sideswipe accident, the report says the impact zone is the FRONT of the bus, meaning the driver made no attempt to avoid the riders and plowed straight into them from behind.

    EDIT: for anyone that knew Udo Heinz, there will be a memorial service tomorrow (Thurs) Aug 15 at Powerhouse Park in Del Mar
    Last edited by markg; 08-15-13 at 11:05 AM.

  11. #36
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    Road is narrow in this location, constrained by guardrails on either side. Contrary to the NCTD claims that it was a sideswipe accident, the report says the impact zone is the FRONT of the bus, meaning the driver made no attempt to avoid the riders and plowed straight into them from behind.
    that's how the screenshots look too.

  12. #37
    jmX
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    Those video frames are pretty scary. The bus driver just rammed them with no apparent change of lane.

  13. #38
    Unobtanium-Based Lifeform calamarichris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmX View Post
    Those video frames are pretty scary. The bus driver just rammed them with no apparent change of lane.
    God... yeah. They were off to the side. Bus driver must have been on auto-pilot or something.

  14. #39
    SuperGimp TrojanHorse's Avatar
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    Given that he apparently swerved violently to avoid some cyclists a short distance prior to mowing down Heinz et. al. I'd think it's negligent rather than some buried anger against cyclists. I wonder what he was doing... texting? It's astounding how many people you see driving around looking down.

  15. #40
    Unobtanium-Based Lifeform calamarichris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrojanHorse View Post
    Given that he apparently swerved violently to avoid some cyclists a short distance prior to mowing down Heinz et. al. I'd think it's negligent rather than some buried anger against cyclists. I wonder what he was doing... texting? It's astounding how many people you see driving around looking down.
    Don't get me started.


  16. #41
    5 Time Bike Path Champion chefxian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpled View Post
    Sadly, I knew the rider killed. I didn't know him well; but did race against him in CX and have raced in the same field with his wife as well.
    I really feel for the kids who will grow up without their father.
    I raced against him as we'll. didn't know him personally but for sure knew of him. Terrible, this is the third loss for me personally this season with fellow racers passing away. Are there memorials working or links to funding or is there just going to be more bickering and know it alls about the merits of safety and not of a father who orphaned a child?
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  17. #42
    Senior Member Chaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrojanHorse View Post
    Given that he apparently swerved violently to avoid some cyclists a short distance prior to mowing down Heinz et. al. I'd think it's negligent rather than some buried anger against cyclists. I wonder what he was doing... texting? It's astounding how many people you see driving around looking down.
    Just came thru Pendleton today. I was looking for all the spots where there isn't a wide shoulder. There are only about 5 of them, and the longest one is about 200 yards. Most of them are less than 50 yards. This means that if the bus driver could have waited a maximum of 30 seconds, there would have been no need to pass them. I would definitely call that negligence.
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  18. #43
    Senior Member Chaco's Avatar
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    Here is the pretrial disclosure filed by the lawyer of John Edwards, one of the injured cyclists.

    Edit: just finished reading this. The photos, taken from the bus, pretty clearly show that the story given to the press by the NCTD was just a coverup, i.e., that the bus driver went into the other lane and turned back in too early. Instead, it appears that the bus driver simply ran the riders down from behind.

    I was wondering how a sideswipe could do so much damage. This explains it much more clearly. I hope the NCTD and their negligent driver get the book thrown at them.
    Last edited by Chaco; 08-15-13 at 10:48 PM.
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  19. #44
    Administrator CbadRider's Avatar
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    It looks like John Edwards case against NCTD has been settled.

    Camp Pendleton Crash Case Settles for Damages and Safer Roads in San Diego County | PRLog
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  20. #45
    Unobtanium-Based Lifeform calamarichris's Avatar
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    No reflection on you Cbad, but what a terribly-written press release.

    According to Mr. Duquette, “Regardless of compensation, Mr. Edwards’s overriding concern was to ensure that this type of bus accident, which resulted in serious injuries to him and the death of Udo Heinz, could be prevented going forward. This agreement’s provision mandatesNCTD and First Transit’s further advancement of its Bicycle Safety Program. It opens the door for our bicycle community to ensure that its interests are not only considered, but incorporated into the company’s safety policies and procedures.”

    So the final result is that their drivers will have to sit through safety briefings about not hitting cyclists?

  21. #46
    Senior Member eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
    No reflection on you Cbad, but what a terribly-written press release.
    Agreed 100%. The way the PR is written, it almost reads like a promotional bit for the bus company (and for the rider's attorney.)
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  22. #47
    SuperGimp TrojanHorse's Avatar
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    It's "interesting" to say you're committed to bicycle safety but I wonder if any of those transit companies ever review their video tapes for near misses and other potential calamities. Or frankly, any other bad driver habits.

  23. #48
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    I don't understand what gets you so upset in the PR. "Normal" and expected outcome would be for Mr. Edwards to get a large sum of money and to go away. Anything above and beyond that is icing on the cake. The PR specifically says that, in addition to the money, he extracted some sort of safety-related promises from the company. It's too vague and does not explain what these promises are, but just having them is a big plus.

    Also, an attorney who would miss an opportunity to turn a PR into a promotional bit for him/herself is a bad attorney.

  24. #49
    Unobtanium-Based Lifeform calamarichris's Avatar
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    Not upset. Just stating without any emotion at all that the PR is terribly written and that we have no idea what is meant by NCTD and First Transit’s further advancement of its Bicycle Safety Program...

  25. #50
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    I don't know if there's much that can be done to prevent these types of accidents.

    Many passenger cars (mostly high-end) come with radar or optical collision prevention systems. In an accident like this (plowing into a bunch of cyclists head-on), the system would sound the alarm and, if that fails, would apply the brakes. But I don't know of any that can be retrofitted onto an older bus. Maybe their program could ensure that their future buses come with these systems.

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