Bike Forums

Bike Forums (http://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Southern California (http://www.bikeforums.net/southern-california/)
-   -   1 dead, 2 injured cyclists at Pendleton. (http://www.bikeforums.net/southern-california/905803-1-dead-2-injured-cyclists-pendleton.html)

Carloswithac 08-05-13 07:33 PM

1 dead, 2 injured cyclists at Pendleton.
 
My thoughts are with their families. Rest in Peace.

Quote:

One person was killed and two were injured in an accident involving a bus and bicyclists at Camp Pendleton, authorities said.

The bicycle riders - all civilians - were hit by a North County Transit District bus Sunday afternoon. The Naval Criminal Investigative Service is investigating.

One of the two injured is listed in critical condition at a local hospital, the other in serious condition. No further details about the incident were released.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...,4786387.story

Does anyone have more information as to location? The base exit is crazy on the weekends so I can only imagine a weekday. :(

Carlos

CommuteCommando 08-05-13 07:58 PM

Sad to hear this, as I ride this on occasion.

I rode the Metrolink through there Saturday and there were a gajillion bikes on Stuart Mesa. I have had encounters with bus drivers who were real haters. I have also seen cyclists pass buses on the right. I'd like to hear more too.

CbadRider 08-05-13 08:54 PM

I rode by this at about 3:45 after they had airlifted the injured people out and they were just starting to let traffic through. It was on one of the hills in the middle of the route on Stuart Mesa. The bus was parked in the middle of the road about halfway up the hill. I couldn't tell if the accident happened in the middle of the road or off to the side.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/...amp-pendleton/

Mike F 08-05-13 10:02 PM

Thoughts with the family. Its difficult to speculate what happened but I cant think of a scenario where three bicyclist would challenge a bus, but Ive been wrong before.

Gallo 08-06-13 08:57 AM

tragic

rip cyclist

hope the best for all those involved

Pamestique 08-06-13 10:38 AM

I really want to know what happened. I ride though the Base alot. I have found most drivers to be very concious and courteous to cyclists and until now, I have felt no fear... but the world is getting crazy - what with the motorist gunning down people in Venice and now this accident - I am sure it was an accident, but nonetheless, tragic and very sad. Just one more reason to force me off the road into safer dirt trails... people please ride with eyes and ears alert... TRUST NO ONE!

So very sad for all involved.

calamarichris 08-06-13 10:41 AM

Tragedy for all concerned. :(
Hopefully not caused by anyone "taking a lane", because there are signs all over the base that say "Cyclists must ride single file and to the right."
If the investigation finds this was the cause, we'll all likely suffer. :(

hamster 08-06-13 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calamarichris (Post 15931287)
Tragedy for all concerned. :(
Hopefully not caused by anyone "taking a lane", because there are signs all over the base that say "Cyclists must ride single file and to the right."
If the investigation finds this was the cause, we'll all likely suffer. :(

I hope so too. Doubtful that it's cyclists' fault. One injured cyclist, maybe even two - could be because someone was taking a lane or riding double file. But three at the same time, one dead, two seriously injured - this reads more like a bus failing to stay out of the bike lane.

tony2v 08-06-13 09:29 PM

2 Attachment(s)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=333308http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=333311
This is the scene on Sunday when we arrived about 1PM. The Marine Police had already blocked the road. Life Flight tried to land south of accident west of the road, but created nothing but a huge dust storm and landed headed north of us. We didn't see any riders that turned around, guess we were the first, must have closed the road at Las Pulgas because we didn't any more riders except the group from Tijuana who were on the train with us and riding back to San Diego from San Juan Capristrano (our 7:11AM train broke down and arrived in SJC at 10:50AM, but that's another story......sadly). We waited about 45 minutes before the all clear was given. Not sure what happened, but it could have been us if we were just a few minutes faster (potty break in San Onofre). It was so sad and sobering to be there.

Nachoman 08-06-13 10:31 PM

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hvyf3UpJt3...be-careful.jpg

Judya 08-07-13 12:28 AM

Actually, you can see by the photo that there is no bike lane or shoulder in this location. Most of the base doesn't have actual bike lanes but shoulders that come and go. Some shoulders are not in any condition to ride on. One leaving the base at Las Pulgas has a huge tree root that is shaded by a tree where there was a recent crash.

Whatever the rules are on the base, the law everywhere else is that when a lane is too narrow to share side by side the safest and legal way to ride is to control the lane so that a bus doesn't try to pass in the same lane. (for example, notice the sharrows in encinitas centered in the lane to educate both drivers and cyclists to the safest place to ride.) They just can't fit and, even if they were to move over a little, if a car comes around a blind curve in the other direction they would squeeze any cycists into the guard rail. You should always control a lane like this which is too narrow to share. It is not responsible to do otherwise.

robertkat 08-07-13 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamster (Post 15932205)
I hope so too. Doubtful that it's cyclists' fault. One injured cyclist, maybe even two - could be because someone was taking a lane or riding double file. But three at the same time, one dead, two seriously injured - this reads more like a bus failing to stay out of the bike lane.

There is no shoulder or bike lane, so by law the cyclists are allowed take the lane. Regardless, my experiences using the NCTD system tell me the bus just didn't care. Ever since they outsourced the labor, there has been an influx of poorly trained, under paid drivers. There's great pressure to be on schedule no matter what.

I have been told the rider that died may be a Ranchos member.

CommuteCommando 08-07-13 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judya (Post 15933895)
Whatever the rules are on the base, the law everywhere else is that when a lane is too narrow to share side by side the safest and legal way to ride is to control the lane so that a bus doesn't try to pass in the same lane.

I believe that other than mandatory helmet use, the rules for bikes are the same. Also, the motor vehicle speed limits are a bit lower on base. I believe that section is posted 45 mph.

Quote:

Originally Posted by robertkat (Post 15933899)
Regardless, my experiences using the NCTD system tell me the bus just didn't care. Ever since they outsourced the labor, there has been an influx of poorly trained, under paid drivers. There's great pressure to be on schedule no matter what.

I have noticed that attitudes towards bikes by transit operators is an individual thing. Some are friendlier to others. The security (rent-a-cops) are usually pretty bad when dealing with cyclists, largely because they see bikes as a way to push their limited power, with behavior born of minimal training.

The management of the transit agencies pay lip service to being "bike friendly", but in fact could care less about bikes, as witnessed by the ignorance of many drivers (and security guards) to the laws regarding bikes on the roads. This indicates a laissez faire attitude toward training.

Judya 08-07-13 08:35 AM

[QUOTE=CommuteCommando;15934617]I believe that other than mandatory helmet use, the rules for bikes are the same. Also, the motor vehicle speed limits are a bit lower on base. I believe that section is posted 45 mph.



The base has a rules sign posted encouraging edge riding. https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...43708696_n.jpg

The traffic controls that they say to follow on the base are not to Federal or State Standards. There are very few marked bike lanes on base. There are Faux bike lanes which are unmarked shoulders that come and go and under the law, cyclists are not required to ride on shoulders. Cyclists also may control the full lane anywhere that the lane is too narrow to share side by side. That includes almost every lane on the base. If a shoulder is there it also may not be maintained and ends without warning. People think these posted rules are the same as laws but even to post a sign like this off the base would be illegal.

calamarichris 08-07-13 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robertkat (Post 15933899)
There is no shoulder or bike lane, so by law the cyclists are allowed take the lane. Regardless, my experiences using the NCTD system tell me the bus just didn't care. Ever since they outsourced the labor, there has been an influx of poorly trained, under paid drivers. There's great pressure to be on schedule no matter what.

Pendleton is not a public road, and we are allowed there at the Commanding General's pleasure.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...43708696_n.jpg

Judya 08-07-13 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calamarichris (Post 15934976)
Pendleton is not a public road, and we are allowed there at the Commanding General's pleasure.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...43708696_n.jpg

Yes, the federal government is not required to adhere to federal standards on base property and can make their own laws. This subjects us to death on the roads. So, when I go there, I ride safely even if it is against their rules. I'd rather be safe than dead. According to that sign, the penalty for not riding according to the rules is banishment from the base. Better that then dead.

To travel between SD county and Orange county the only other choice is taking the 5 Freeway which also has its dangers. Maybe being hit by a flying piece of rubber tire at speed.

calamarichris 08-07-13 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judya (Post 15935024)
Yes, the federal government is not required to adhere to federal standards on base property and can make their own laws. This subjects us to death on the roads. So, when I go there, I ride safely even if it is against their rules. I'd rather be safe than dead. According to that sign, the penalty for not riding according to the rules is banishment from the base. Better that then dead.

To travel between SD county and Orange county the only other choice is taking the 5 Freeway which also has its dangers. Maybe being hit by a flying piece of rubber tire at speed.

:rolleyes:
Except that your selfish behavior won't get you banished, it will get the rest of us banished. Rule #10 above is clearly addressed to All y'all cyclists, not you(individual)cyclist.
It would be best for all concerned if you stuck to the 5. Better safe than dead, or than getting the rest of us banished.

Judya 08-07-13 10:19 AM

Actually, I think it's selfish to risk anyone's life so that you can play. Attention needs to be paid to making the roads safe for everyone and avoiding more of these deaths when motor vehicles try to pass cyclists who are riding on the edge of the road. Let's hope that something good can come of this. And, it's doubtful that safe and legal riding will get anyone banished. Staying to the right of roadway means the right lane.. not riding in the opposite direction from traffic.

calamarichris 08-07-13 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judya (Post 15935067)
Staying to the right of roadway means the right lane.. not riding in the opposite direction from traffic.

:roflmao2:

Just do your cycling brethren a favor and stick to the 5. If you must ride through Pendleton, at least stop at the MP station before entering the post, and asking the desk sergeant for his version of "to the right of roadway."

Judya 08-07-13 10:33 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Thank you for your advice sir. I am in no way interested in anyones version of anything. I know the actual law. And what is safe.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=333407

calamarichris 08-07-13 10:36 AM

Remember this thread when the CG says, "No more cyclists allowed on my Post." :(

http://www.angelfire.com/blog/jester_1/patton.jpg

Pamestique 08-07-13 01:11 PM

This has been a heated debate for along time... just imagine how nice things would be if somehow, we come get the State of CA (CalTrans) to erect a K-rail barrier for cyclist to ride behind (ie on the right of traffic) between Las Pulgas and the Oceanside offramp. I would take the 5 gladly if there was a way to protect myself from traffic and debris.

But bottom line regardless, someone was killed and 2 were injured and this was sad... we may find out (or we will never find out such as news reporting anymore) that it was all a silly, stupid accident on the part of the bus and/or the cyclists. I personally wish there was some other option other than the Base or the 5 but then again, just riding on the road anymore is a health hazard period.

Gallo 08-08-13 08:20 AM

Found this this morning. While there is still no explanation of the accident this is the best I could find so far.


The cyclist was a Ranchos Member which indicates to me that one he was fast and two he had allot of time on the road. All indications from the link below indicate he was a safe cyclist and a good man. My condolences to the the grieving family and best wishes to the injured.

Furthermore my prayers go out to the bus driver whom I am sure did not start up the bus in the morning with plans to harm any individual. Sometimes it is hard to grip that an accident is an accident.

http://bikinginla.wordpress.com/2013...on-one-killed/

CbadRider 08-08-13 09:16 AM

I did some clean up. Please don't start picking on each other or I'll be forced to move this thread to A&S.

Garfield Cat 08-08-13 02:17 PM

Other alternative is to have a dedicated bicycle route going through the Base. This would be good all around The Amtrak Century has a lot of riders on the Interstate 5. That would be eliminated as well. There's a lot of debris on the I-5.

I don't know how this can be budgeted with the military budget facing big squeezes. Perhaps there might be some money when the draw down occurs.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:59 AM.