Bike Forums

Bike Forums (http://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Southern California (http://www.bikeforums.net/southern-california/)
-   -   California Bicycle Laws (http://www.bikeforums.net/southern-california/926215-california-bicycle-laws.html)

Nikon Rep 01-02-14 03:15 PM

I don't understand why so many cyclists are opposed to riding on the sidewalk.

I have been a photojournalist for about 20 years. I respond to accident scenes almost daily.

I have NEVER once responded to a scene of a cyclist hitting a pedestrian on a sidewalk where medical assistance is needed.

I have responded to hundreds of scenes where a motor vehicle hit a cyclist who was in the road. Many of them were fatalities.

I have NEVER responded to a scene where a car hit a cyclist who was riding on a sidewalk.

My conclusion....riding a bicycle on a sidewalk is far safer than riding in the street.

I will gladly take the low cost of a ticket vs the high cost of 15 days in the ICU and 5 surgeries and months of rehab.

Plus, a ticket is also better than death.

mkadam68 01-02-14 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikon Rep (Post 16376573)
I don't understand why so many cyclists are opposed to riding on the sidewalk.

I have been a photojournalist for about 20 years. I respond to accident scenes almost daily.

I have NEVER once responded to a scene of a cyclist hitting a pedestrian on a sidewalk where medical assistance is needed.

I have responded to hundreds of scenes where a motor vehicle hit a cyclist who was in the road. Many of them were fatalities.

I have NEVER responded to a scene where a car hit a cyclist who was riding on a sidewalk.

My conclusion....riding a bicycle on a sidewalk is far safer than riding in the street.

I will gladly take the low cost of a ticket vs the high cost of 15 days in the ICU and 5 surgeries and months of rehab.

Plus, a ticket is also better than death.

  • Just because you have never seen it does not mean it doesn't happen.
    Using your logic: I have never been hit by a car. Therefore, cyclists do not get hit by cars (ya, right!)
  • I was on a sidewalk once & got right-hooked by a car (slammed on brakes & didn't collide--barely). I'm sure others can tell you worse.
  • I cannot ride as fast as I want on a sidewalk.
  • Sidewalks are many times broken up & uneven.
  • There are usually too many pedestrians/strollers/pets-on-a-leash to safely ride on a sidewalk.

CommuteCommando 01-02-14 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikon Rep (Post 16376573)
I have NEVER responded to a scene where a car hit a cyclist who was riding on a sidewalk.

I have witnessed two accidents involving cyclists riding on the sidewalk hit by cars emerging from driveways. Both were riding in the direction opposite the direction of traffic on the adjacent street.

prathmann 01-02-14 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikon Rep (Post 16376573)
I don't understand why so many cyclists are opposed to riding on the sidewalk.

Intersections tend to be the most common places for collisions. Unless you do all your riding going around the same block then you'll have to cross just as many intersections when sidewalk riding as doing your riding in the street - and you'll be entering those intersections in a less predictable and visible manner. In addition, you'll be crossing many driveways where exiting/entering traffic isn't expecting anyone to be going over a jogging speed on the sidewalk.

I think it's very likely that in at least a few of the scenes you've covered where a car hit a cyclist who was 'in the road' it was a cyclist who had been on the sidewalk and was in the process of crossing the road or had been pushed out onto the road by a car exiting a driveway.

calamarichris 01-02-14 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkadam68 (Post 16376608)
  • Just because you have never seen it does not mean it doesn't happen.
    Using your logic: I have never been hit by a car. Therefore, cyclists do not get hit by cars (ya, right!)
  • I was on a sidewalk once & got right-hooked by a car (slammed on brakes & didn't collide--barely). I'm sure others can tell you worse.
  • I cannot ride as fast as I want on a sidewalk.
  • Sidewalks are many times broken up & uneven.
  • There are usually too many pedestrians/strollers/pets-on-a-leash to safely ride on a sidewalk.

In addition to these, I wonder how many of the OP's "road" accidents might have actually been a cyclist riding on the sidewalk, being struck by a right-turning vehicle while entering an intersection at the crosswalk. I've seen two nasty accidents like this, and have had two close-calls where we are compelled to ride on a separate bike path off the road. (Click here for street view of the intersection.) It was understandable, since the pedestrian light was red, and the driver in both cases either did not see me, OR they assumed I was expected to stop. But it's not a smart idea to ride straight through such an intersection without closely checking for right-turning cars.

If you really want to ride on the sidewalk, go nuts, but be prepared to stop at every intersection if you do. If it still doesn't make sense to you, it will after you've ridden more and gained experience. :thumb:

Edit: D'oh--just realized I'm saying the exact thing Prathmann said 9 minutes ago. Hopefully it will sink in. http://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/thumb.gif

Mansram01 01-03-14 08:04 PM

Sorry but this is one of the dumbest things I've read on this forum. Most of my riding and the cyclists in my area generally is 15-mph or more. The danger this presents to pedestrians is greater since sidewalks have no lanes are bi-directional. Plus it's illegal to ride on the sidewalk.

mkadam68 01-03-14 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mansram01 (Post 16380758)
Sorry but this is one of the dumbest things I've read on this forum. Most of my riding and the cyclists in my area generally is 15-mph or more. The danger this presents to pedestrians is greater since sidewalks have no lanes are bi-directional. Plus it's illegal to ride on the sidewalk.

FWIW: not everywhere. CVC allows local municipalities to decide this for themselves.

curbtender 01-03-14 09:44 PM

It was probably legal until someone did something stupid....same as helmet laws.

Nikon Rep 01-04-14 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mansram01 (Post 16380758)
Sorry but this is one of the dumbest things I've read on this forum. Most of my riding and the cyclists in my area generally is 15-mph or more. The danger this presents to pedestrians is greater since sidewalks have no lanes are bi-directional. Plus it's illegal to ride on the sidewalk.

I would rather be dumb and alive than law abiding and dead in the street.

calamarichris 01-04-14 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikon Rep (Post 16381435)
I would rather be dumb and alive than law abiding and dead in the street.

And that is one of the most willfully dumb things I've read on this forum.
If you want to go do something dumb so badly, why come in here to ask for permission from more people with more experience who know better? http://www.gigabikes.com/forums/styl...fault/nuts.gif

Anyone care to direct this fellow back to the A&S forum? Looks like another one of them got out of his straitjacket.

Elvo 01-04-14 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calamarichris (Post 16381851)
And that is one of the most willfully dumb things I've read on this forum.
If you want to go do something dumb so badly, why come in here to ask for permission from more people with more experience who know better? http://www.gigabikes.com/forums/styl...fault/nuts.gif

Anyone care to direct this fellow back to the A&S forum? Looks like another one of them got out of his straitjacket.

I think he joined last month to troll us =)

BigJeff 01-08-14 11:35 PM

Vehicle code section 235
Quote:

[h=4]Business District[/h] 235. A "business district" is that portion of a highway and the property contiguous thereto (a) upon one side of which highway, for a distance of 600 feet, 50 percent or more of the contiguous property fronting thereon is occupied by buildings in use for business, or (b) upon both sides of which highway, collectively, for a distance of 300 feet, 50 percent or more of the contiguous property fronting thereon is so occupied. A business district may be longer than the distances specified in this section if the above ratio of buildings in use for business to the length of the highway exists.

Apartment buildings are also considered "businesses".

So either 600 feet of 50% businesses, or 300 feet of both side of the road 50% businesses.

Therefore state laws on speed limits apply in business districts (35mph), unless otherwise posted.

Nikon Rep 01-13-14 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calamarichris (Post 16381851)
And that is one of the most willfully dumb things I've read on this forum.

.

In the 8 days since I posted that statement there have been 4 cyclists killed in LA county. They were hit by cars while riding in the street.

Can you cite any cyclists killed while riding on the sidewalk ? Can you cite any pedestrians injured or killed by a cyclist while on the sidewalk.

calamarichris 01-13-14 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikon Rep (Post 16405971)
In the 8 days since I posted that statement there have been 4 cyclists killed in LA county. They were hit by cars while riding in the street.

Can you cite any cyclists killed while riding on the sidewalk ? Can you cite any pedestrians injured or killed by a cyclist while on the sidewalk.

Hmm... on second thought I retract my previous statement. This is the most willfully idiotic thing I've read on the internet so far this year.

Please provide links to reports of these 4 deaths.
Did any of these deaths occur when sidewalk-riders were crossing intersections in pedestrian crosswalks?
How long have you been riding? Are you a 12-year-old riding a BMX bicycle?
What is your intent? To convince hundreds of actual, knowledgeable cyclists that we are wrong for complying with existing laws and common sense? It's a common fantasy among Army privates and college freshman that they are going to show up with a fresh perspective and tell the Generals and college professors some new truth that will cause a revolution in warfare or academia.

Has it occurred to you that the killed cyclists you cite were either
A) hit in pedestrian crosswalks while transitioning from one sidewalk to another, or
B) riding on roads which had no adjacent sidewalks in the first place?

Both of these should be answerable by the links to the reports you're going to provide.

At this point, you appear a troll having fun in poor taste, but even if your intentions are good and you're simply misguided, please quit dictating your ignorance (that's not a petty insult, but a statement that you clearly you know nothing about riding bicycles in America) and entertaining logic to lifelong riders who know better. Ride on the sidewalk if you like (though I suspect you do not ride bicycles at all and probably never will), but don't tell people who actually ride that we're wrong.

B. Carfree 01-13-14 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikon Rep (Post 16405971)
In the 8 days since I posted that statement there have been 4 cyclists killed in LA county. They were hit by cars while riding in the street.

Can you cite any cyclists killed while riding on the sidewalk ? Can you cite any pedestrians injured or killed by a cyclist while on the sidewalk.

For the first week of this new year, I was reading the San Francisco newspaper online. Pretty much every day a pedestrian was killed. I'm going to make two leaps here:
1. The pedestrians weren't "vehicular walkers".:D
2. There's not much difference between a person who walks on the sidewalk and a person who rides on a sidewalk. Both of them have the same driveway and intersection issues.

Strangely, at least to your way of looking at things, there was only one report of a cyclist seriously injured and she was riding the wrong way on a one-way street. That's hardly the way most of us recommend riding.

Mansram01 01-13-14 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calamarichris (Post 16381851)
And that is one of the most willfully dumb things I've read on this forum.
If you want to go do something dumb so badly, why come in here to ask for permission from more people with more experience who know better? http://www.gigabikes.com/forums/styl...fault/nuts.gif

Anyone care to direct this fellow back to the A&S forum? Looks like another one of them got out of his straitjacket.

+1 Thank you and thank you again. I suspect this person does ride much (or at all) or another troll.. :thumb:

GP 01-14-14 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B. Carfree (Post 16405990)
2. There's not much difference between a person who walks on the sidewalk and a person who rides on a sidewalk. Both of them have the same driveway and intersection issues.

I ride on the sidewalk regularly and I disagree. When drivers turn into a driveway or at an intersection, they're not watching for a bike that are travelling twice the speed as a pedestrian.

hey_javi 01-18-14 12:26 AM

This should help. Found it earlier today.

http://la-bike.org/resources/california-bicycle-laws

snowman40 01-18-14 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikon Rep (Post 16405971)
In the 8 days since I posted that statement there have been 4 cyclists killed in LA county. They were hit by cars while riding in the street.

Can you cite any cyclists killed while riding on the sidewalk ? Can you cite any pedestrians injured or killed by a cyclist while on the sidewalk.

i saw the aftermath of a van hitting a girl riding her bike to/from school. OCRegister said the van didn't see her shoot up the right side. I think she only had a broken arm, but I don't remember if she was on the sidewalk or not. She probably was since she was a middle schooler and it is lawful for kids to ride the sidewalks in Irvine.


The problem here was the crosswalk was where vehicles make right turns and only on that side of the T intersection. Compound that with the driver seeing the flashing hand and the kid going I can make this if I go faster and crunch.

if you are that concerned about getting hit by a vehicle, drive to a trail and ride when you get there. It hard enough and we don't need people like you becoming a rallying cry to get us off the roads. We are outnumbered hundreds of thousands to one on a daily basis. California law states you are operating a vehicle, vehicles belong in the streets where it is safe to ride. If you don't feel safe in the streets, then go find a trail or don't ride. There are tens of thousands of bicyclists on the road everyday in Orange and LA Counties, we aren't getting hit everyday like you seem to believe.

Nikon Rep 01-26-14 09:10 PM

cyclist killed while riding in the street.

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...nty&id=9408012

if the cyclist had been on the sidewalk he would be alive right now.

calamarichris 01-26-14 09:54 PM

Note to self: Never, EVER buy another Nikon product again. I invite the rest of this forum to boycott Nikon if you haven't already.

And to Nikon Rep: I invite you to leave this forum and go ride on the English side of the Hollywood freeway. It would make my day to have someone say of you posthumously : "He'd still be alive if he'd been riding in the bike lane."

http://www.calamarichris.com/smiley/...ader_pizza.gif

TrojanHorse 01-26-14 11:09 PM

It's interesting to note that drunk drivers never drive on the sidewalk, eh? :rolleyes:

This thread just won't die... there will be zombie movies about this thread in 2018. Just a prediction, somebody write it down.

tunavic 01-26-14 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrojanHorse (Post 16443331)
It's interesting to note that drunk drivers never drive on the sidewalk, eh? :rolleyes:

You haven't been to South Dakota.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-kids-car.html

Nikon Rep 01-27-14 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calamarichris (Post 16443193)
Note to self: Never, EVER buy another Nikon product again. I invite the rest of this forum to boycott Nikon if you haven't already.

And to Nikon Rep: I invite you to leave this forum and go ride on the English side of the Hollywood freeway. It would make my day to have someone say of you posthumously : "He'd still be alive if he'd been riding in the bike lane."


You seem to have a lot of bitterness towards people who disagree with you. Your solution is to attack them personally. I think the moderators here need to give you a time out.

calamarichris 01-27-14 10:20 AM

Ah, so you are actually reading the many valid arguments made by actual cyclists in here. It appeared that you were simply ignoring them and continuing cramming your copy-pasted perspective down the throats of those who know better.
I don't have bitterness toward anyone who disagrees with me, but you haven't disagreed with any of the cogent points I and others have made about your flawed conclusions. I think you should actually try cycling (on the sidewalk if it's what you want) to engage the actual cyclists in here, maybe apply reasoning... you might learn something.
I do have some bitterness toward you for your stupid posts like #45 above, while you ignore the arguments pointing out why riding on the sidewalk is unwise, unsafe, and illegal.

Apologies to everyone else for bumping this stupid thread back up. This is the last post I'll make in it.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:33 PM.