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Old 03-20-14, 09:29 AM   #76
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I will be at RR#4, in Guadalupe.
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Old 03-24-14, 07:14 PM   #77
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Are any of you signed up to do the Mt Tam Double this year? I'm coming from out of state and wouldn't mind meeting up with some folks on the ride.
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Old 03-30-14, 08:52 AM   #78
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Another century, I mean training ride, in the books. Southern Sierra test ride double next weekend. Should be gorgeous with the snow caped Sierras. I am not doing Mt Tam.
Bike Ride Profile | Painted Cave Dream Century near Carpinteria | Times and Records | Strava

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Old 04-01-14, 11:58 AM   #79
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I rode the Orange County Death ride last Sat. (103 mi. with 8,000 ft. of climbing) and felt pretty good throughout so I signed up for Hemet Double. My back is still an issue, still using Bengay to keep the pain away. Orange County Sixteen Pass Death Ride by Rick@OCRR at Garmin Connect - Details

If Hemet goes well I will sign up for Devil Mountain. I've been wanting to do that one for a long time but lately my back has been giving me so much trouble . . . I didn't know if I should attempt it or not. That's why my final decision will wait until after Hemet (which is a quite easy double compared to Devil Mountain!).

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Old 04-01-14, 12:41 PM   #80
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Devil Mountain is hard, right!?
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Old 04-02-14, 07:48 AM   #81
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Devil Mountain is hard, right!?
Yes Lesper4, Brutal, in fact. The site lists 18,000 feet of climbing but riders who have done it (Victor, Saralie, Anny) tell me it's more like 20,000.

On the plus side, I have been climbing well this year, so I thought this would be the year to give it a try.

Over on the minus side, my back may still be an issue. So that's what I'm trying to balance as I decide. If I have a lot of back pain on Hemet, no DMD for me this year. If I have no (or very little) back pain on Hemet I will send in my check to the Quacks for the DMD.

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Old 04-07-14, 12:11 AM   #82
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Southern Sierra Double Century:
I guess I am glad this was only a test ride. The winds were brutal and we worked all day together because of it. I am still trying to figure out my nutrition as I bonked late in the ride. Decided to quite but I didn't. I did the final climb but missed the group going out on the last lap into the wind around the dry lake so I called it Scenery was amazing! Temps were great. We had 32 people sign up but only 18 people showed up and only 12 finished so I heard. Besides the views we got buzzed by three jets, a F-18 that was about 100 ft high and then banked hard around the corner with full afterburners! That was scary and then maybe two F-16 about 400 ft high playing around doing rolls.
Bike Ride Profile | Southern Sierra Double Century (test ride) near Lone Pine | Times and Records | Strava

Hemet double next week!
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Old 04-08-14, 09:55 AM   #83
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Yes Lesper4, Brutal, in fact. The site lists 18,000 feet of climbing but riders who have done it (Victor, Saralie, Anny) tell me it's more like 20,000.

On the plus side, I have been climbing well this year, so I thought this would be the year to give it a try.

Over on the minus side, my back may still be an issue. So that's what I'm trying to balance as I decide. If I have a lot of back pain on Hemet, no DMD for me this year. If I have no (or very little) back pain on Hemet I will send in my check to the Quacks for the DMD.

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I love the DMD ... one of my favorite doubles. It is epic in every sense of the word. You know what really makes it great? Not only are the climbs epic ... the descents are too. And the Quackers give first class support. They'll be out there for you as long as it takes.

Climbs:

Mt Diablo: Great AM climb, with great views. The descent off the other side is first rate too (warning ... but often cold).



Morgan Territory: GREAT climb. The road is kinda chewed up, but it is a climb in an oaky shaded canyon. Love this one. The descent off the other side is so-so ... high speed and with great pavement, though.





Patterson: Steep (but only near the top) and can be windy! Not much of a descent off the other side.



Mines Road: A long slog up a 2-3% hill. If the winds behave, you can get through this pretty quickly. If the winds don't, this can be a long slog. The Mt. Hamilton Challenge is often on the same day, so you'll see other riders coming down the other way.



Mt. Hamilton: Great climb with great views. One short steep section. The descent off the back is fantastic!



Sierra Road: Everybody fears this one, but it's not all that bad. It's terraced. Steep (12%+), then flatter (7%+). If you've got decent gearing there is nothing to fear here at all. And if Aldo or his progeny are there, you'll get to kiss the goat. The views while climbing? Typically near sunset and awesome views of San Jose and the bay.



Palomares: Before Palomares, you'll stop at the chili dog stop. YUM! Definitely pair/quad up with other riders here, as the ride from the rest stop to Palomares is highly trafficked and the shoulder can be narrow. Scoot through there as fast as you can. The Palomares climb itself is like a lot in the Santa Monicas. Oaky and curvy. Funny story is that there is some kind of Monastery in there, and one year, we were riding above this little valley when they were having some kind of ceremony. Utterly dark. All you could hear was the gonging of a bell and a sea of little candles down there ... it was surreal!

There is another little climb before the end ... don't remember the name ... but that goes pretty quick.

You will have a GREAT time.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg View from Diablo II.jpg (88.3 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg Morgan Territory Descent.jpg (89.8 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg Mt Hamilton Descent II Redux.jpg (101.0 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg San Jose Compressed.jpg (94.0 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg Patterson climb.jpg (96.2 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg DMD 0809 MORGAN TER HAND SIGNAL Compressed.jpg (92.0 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg Morgan Territory Climb Compressed.jpg (101.5 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg Mines and Me Compressed.jpg (100.2 KB, 9 views)
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Old 04-08-14, 10:16 AM   #84
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I love the DMD ... one of my favorite doubles. It is epic in every sense of the word. You know what really makes it great? Not only are the climbs epic ... the descents are too. And the Quackers give first class support. They'll be out there for you as long as it takes.
Thanks for the DMD review Victor!

Yes, I felt great climbing last Sat. on the Karen Climbfest (90.6 mi. with 10,900 feet) so looking forward to Devil Mountain. Will be riding Hemet this Sat. (with Isabelle) so if that goes well, and I expect it will, the DMD check is in the mail to the Quacks on Monday. Gearing wise I have a compact 34 on the front and a 32 on the back. That's been fine for the Ski Lifts, Decker, Potrero, etc.

Should be fun!

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Old 04-08-14, 08:57 PM   #85
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-Snippage-
Will be riding Hemet this Sat. (with Isabelle) so if that goes well, and I expect it will, the DMD check is in the mail to the Quacks on Monday. Gearing wise I have a compact 34 on the front and a 32 on the back. That's been fine for the Ski Lifts, Decker, Potrero, etc.
Should be fun!
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I'll be looking out for you! Take a second to wave as we pass. Oh, and I'll be carrying a few extra water bottles, JIC! );-0

YMMV
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Old 04-09-14, 07:43 AM   #86
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I'll be looking out for you! Take a second to wave as we pass. Oh, and I'll be carrying a few extra water bottles, JIC! );-0
YMMV -dg
Okay Doug, Sounds good. I've never lost a bottle on Hemet, only Knoxville! From the forcast it looks like we should have good weather for Hemet
.
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Old 04-09-14, 09:38 AM   #87
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Weather does look good for Hemet. Last year it was soggy clouds wet in the morning and the evening was actually pretty cold. I am starting around 5am. I may be riding with Les McElhaney who is also starting at that time. Brent Feller is starting earlier I think with his girlfriend and PainFreak.
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Old 04-13-14, 07:52 AM   #88
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Another double down. This one was fast and hard considering all the wind. Very strong winds around the lake.
Bike Ride Profile | Double Century near Hemet | Times and Records | Strava
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Old 04-13-14, 11:40 AM   #89
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So you're up to 2 now? Are you doing Eastern Sierra next?

I got one down Bike Ride Profile | Mulholland Double near Agoura Hills | Times and Records | Strava Will do a writeup later.
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Old 04-13-14, 12:25 PM   #90
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So you're up to 2 now? Are you doing Eastern Sierra next?

I got one down Bike Ride Profile | Mulholland Double near Agoura Hills | Times and Records | Strava Will do a writeup later.
Good job! I was there in one of the SAG cars wishing I could be on a bike.
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Old 04-13-14, 04:04 PM   #91
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2014 Mulholland Double Century ride report.

This is one the less popular doubles, there were only 46 people riding it in 2013, someone mentioned that it was 29 this year, not sure of the exact number but it looked about right at the starting line. I think people are just too afraid because they think "Mulholland Challenge is hard, Mulholland Double must be twice as hard". I actually don't think it's all that hard. It does all climbs of MC + there's 75 additional miles in the middle with ~3000' of climbing. You do need to be at least OK at climbing, and you need to learn how not to bonk as long as possible. In flatter doubles, you can run out of juice by mile 100 and still kinda-sorta make it to the finish (personal experience). Here it's not an option.

We had a mass start at first light at 6:00. First 70 miles are along the same route as MC - Topanga, Rock Store, Yerba Buena, Deer Creek / Pacific View. It was pretty cool and cloudy but no rain or fog. I think that the pace over this section is a pretty good predictor of total time. If you can get from the start to the bottom of Pacific View under 5 hours without killing yourself, you can do a full double under 15. If you're much slower than 5:30, double would be too risky.

After mile 70 it's a nice long recovery spin along PCH and then inland past cilantro fields and then into expensive-looking residential neighborhoods of Thousand Oaks, only occasionally interrupted by 10-12% climbs. It got much warmer, marine layer was gone. At mile 102 we get back to the starting line for lunch (burgers and chili). Folks doing shorter distances eat lunch, kick back and relax. Those doing the double eat and get back on the bike.

This year there was an additional twist. For some uncertain reason (possibly because so few people sign up), the second half of the route was "brevet-style": with no guaranteed support. After lunch I rode back to my car and loaded up on supplies - 2 more bottle cages, a triangle bag with extra food and gear, and an external USB battery. The web site promised a final rest stop at mile 125, but in practice even that wasn't there, all we had was an unmarked restroom with water fountains. A few people in SAG cars did patrol the course (out of the goodness of their hearts). Miles 120..150 are completely flat and it helps to have a paceline, to conserve energy for what's ahead: Decker/Encinal and Stunt (or actually Piuma, because the double does Stunt/Piuma loop backwards.)

I got to the top of Encinal right around sunset. Around this time I started making mistakes. I "smelled" the finish and I went too hard on Encinal, Mulholland and Piuma. At the same time I was getting lax with nutrition. This probably got me too close to bonking. And being close to bonking can seriously mess with core body temp stability. I've seen this once or twice before but this time it was really bad. At the top of Stunt, Garmin was showing 42-43 F. I had bibs and three long-sleeve layers and I would still start freezing (to the point of teeth chattering) whenever I tried to roll downhill. There were 4 or 5 people who rode near me all the way from Decker and I lost them all because I had to stop every 1/2 mile. All SAG cars were gone. Took me 30 minutes to go 4 miles down Stunt and another 30 minutes to get from the bottom of Stunt to Las Virgenes (both stretches are straight downhill and wouldn't take more than 10 min. each under normal conditions). Found someone's abandoned yellow pages along the way and tried to use it as padding. Remember the guy who died in Santa Ana mountains a month ago, presumably froze to death after one night at 40 F? Back then I doubted it, now I'm not so sure. Finally got to Las Virgenes (uphill), started pedaling and that quickly got me back to "normal".

Bottom of Pacific View: 5:30
Lunch: 7:55 (in) 8:30 (out)
Bottom of Decker: 12:00
Top of Stunt: 15:50
Finish time: 17:35

Some gear notes:

* Chinese deep-rim tubular wheels I built last fall (both the wheels and the tires) seem to be bulletproof. Braking gets noisy at times, but braking power is fine and I had zero flats since I got them.
* I got Anker Astro Mini 3000 mAh external USB charger battery, it's compact, weighs less than 3 oz, and can quickly put some extra charge into a Garmin or a cell phone. I have Edge 800 which lasts ~16 hours on a single full charge, but plugging it into the battery even for 15 min gives it several more hours.

Last edited by hamster; 04-14-14 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 04-13-14, 09:11 PM   #92
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yes ESD WMD and GTtriple. Next ride up for me is BA. I havent decided if I am doing HBC
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Old 04-13-14, 09:41 PM   #93
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Wheels probably work great for your weight? When I did MC I was freezing coming down Piuma. Awesome ride, that is a little intimidating especially since I prefer to grind long climbs like the Sierras, San Gabriels and desert unlike the Santa Monica's.
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Old 04-13-14, 10:42 PM   #94
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Wheels probably work great for your weight? When I did MC I was freezing coming down Piuma. Awesome ride, that is a little intimidating especially since I prefer to grind long climbs like the Sierras, San Gabriels and desert unlike the Santa Monica's.
I have 20 spokes in front and 32 spokes in the rear. 20 in front is common but probably not ideal with your weight (aero spokes themselves are much thinner than regular spokes.) The difference between 20 and 32 is about 50 grams. My front wheel is 560 g excluding the tire, with 32 spokes it would have been 610.

It's mainly not even weight or aero but simply that the tires are very sturdy and they don't get pinch flats. In places like Santa Monicas, there are rocks all over the pavement, you end up hitting some, if you have a clincher, it eventually blows. Last time I did Mulholland Challenge, I had a flat 40 minutes into the ride, probably on a rock like that. The only way to flat a tubular is to find a really big thorn (but I have slime inside the tire for that). Maybe riding over a broken bottle would do it. Even the material of the tire seems to be very stiff. I have about 1200-1500 miles on the front tire and it still has this "tread" pattern fully visible:



I might change my mind if/when I finally get a flat. I carry a pump, but I don't even carry a spare, it's too heavy and bulky and swapping tubulars in the middle of a ride is a big PITA (as far as I know.) You're supposed to be able to ride on a flat tubular if you're careful.

I was freezing going down Piuma doing Mulholland Challenge too, but going down Piuma in daylight when it's probably 60 F, and going down Stunt at 11 pm when it's 45 F, that's two very different things. And I thought I was prepared. Need to look into better clothing for these situations.

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Old 04-13-14, 11:29 PM   #95
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Mulholland Double ride report.

...

This year there was an additional twist. For some uncertain reason (possibly because so few people sign up), the second half of the route was "brevet-style": with no guaranteed support. After lunch I rode back to my car and loaded up on supplies - 2 more bottle cages, a triangle bag with extra food and gear, and an external USB battery. The web site promised a final rest stop at mile 125, but in practice even that wasn't there, all we had was an unmarked restroom with water fountains. A few people in SAG cars did patrol the course (out of the goodness of their hearts). Miles 120..150 are completely flat and it helps to have a paceline, to conserve energy for what's ahead: Decker/Encinal and Stunt (or actually Piuma, because the double does Stunt/Piuma loop backwards.)

I got to the top of Encinal right around sunset. Around this time I started making mistakes. I "smelled" the finish and I went too hard on Encinal, Mulholland and Piuma. At the same time I was getting lax with nutrition. This probably got me too close to bonking. And being close to bonking can seriously mess with core body temp stability. I've seen this once or twice before but this time it was really bad. At the top of Stunt, Garmin was showing 42-43 F. I had bibs and three long-sleeve layers and I would still start freezing (to the point of teeth chattering) whenever I tried to roll downhill. There were 4 or 5 people who rode near me all the way from Decker and I lost them all because I had to stop every 1/2 mile. All SAG cars were gone. Took me 30 minutes to go 4 miles down Stunt and another 30 minutes to get from the bottom of Stunt to Las Virgenes (both stretches are straight downhill and wouldn't take more than 10 min. each under normal conditions). Found someone's abandoned yellow pages along the way and tried to use it as padding. Remember the guy who died in Santa Ana mountains a month ago, presumably froze to death after one night at 40 F? Back then I doubted it, now I'm not so sure. Finally got to Las Virgenes (uphill), started pedaling and that quickly got me back to "normal".

Bottom of Pacific View: 5:30
Lunch: 7:55 (in) 8:30 (out)
Bottom of Decker: 12:00
Top of Stunt: 15:50
Finish time: 17:35
Wow ... I think I must have seen you! I was one of those people voluntarily sagging doubles riders through the end and I was about where you were at about that time ... the guy in the Blue Subie.

I'm not sure why Deb does the Mulholland Double brevet style. I think part of it is ... among the doubles, it is one that can be done that way (many of the others really can't without a backpack). Kinda hard to tell whether there are fewer riders because it's brevet style or if the brevet style means there are fewer riders. It'd be nice if they went back to running it with more support. I haven't done it since the route went out and back over Balcom Canyon.

Wish I knew you were cold. I brought a spare jacket in case someone needed it. There was actually some other private saggers that stayed out there until the end (forgot their names but they were in a pickup and a white Toyota van), but I think they were behind you.
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Old 04-14-14, 10:24 AM   #96
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Wow ... I think I must have seen you! I was one of those people voluntarily sagging doubles riders through the end and I was about where you were at about that time ... the guy in the Blue Subie.

I'm not sure why Deb does the Mulholland Double brevet style. I think part of it is ... among the doubles, it is one that can be done that way (many of the others really can't without a backpack). Kinda hard to tell whether there are fewer riders because it's brevet style or if the brevet style means there are fewer riders. It'd be nice if they went back to running it with more support. I haven't done it since the route went out and back over Balcom Canyon.

Wish I knew you were cold. I brought a spare jacket in case someone needed it. There was actually some other private saggers that stayed out there until the end (forgot their names but they were in a pickup and a white Toyota van), but I think they were behind you.
!!! Were you the guy taking pictures? I remember you very well. I saw you and your blue Subie all the time up until the top of Piuma, then you somehow disappeared - did you go back down Piuma? Were there more riders behind us?

BTW. I saw your post about sagging. The turn from Piuma to Schueren is easy to miss, yes, but the turn from Schueren to Stunt is even worse. Unless you've been there before, you may not even notice that there is a turn there. One of the riders near me almost missed it.

I looked through participation numbers on the CTC web site. Mulholland Double had more participants in 2008, 2010 and 2012, when it was part of the CTC stage race. In 2009, 2011 and 2013 there were 42 to 46 riders. So brevet style probably scares away one third of potential riders.

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Old 04-14-14, 10:32 AM   #97
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!!! Were you the guy taking pictures? I remember you very well. I saw you and your blue Subie all the time up until the top of Piuma, then you somehow disappeared - did you go back down Piuma? Were there more riders behind us?

BTW. I saw your post about sagging. The turn from Piuma to Schueren is easy to miss, yes, but the turn from Schueren to Stunt is even worse. Unless you've been there before, you may not even notice that there is a turn there. One of the riders near me almost missed it.
Yep, that was me.

Damn! I hadn't thought about it, but you're right! That left down Stunt is a big-angle turn, so you might miss that too! Crap.

Part of being able to volunteer for this kinda stuff is keeping the wife happy. I was hoping to get home before she went to sleep, so I took off down that same road I cautioned you against (NOT turning left on Scheuren), and took Las Flores down to PCH and home from there. And as it would turn out, she was asleep already. I might as well have stayed out with you guys.

There was at least one other rider behind you. He was about 15-20 minutes behind you and his wife was following him in a white Toyota van.

So which guy were you?
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Old 04-14-14, 10:45 AM   #98
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I was in a blue CTC jersey during the day. (There were two others with the same jerseys near me, one was an older guy with a white beard and the other was a woman with long hair - I'm neither. ) After sunset I was in a yellow long sleeve jacket.
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Old 04-14-14, 10:49 AM   #99
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Were you on a black and white Cannondale? Got some sweet pix of you climbing Decker.
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Old 04-14-14, 10:53 AM   #100
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Were you on a black and white Cannondale? Got some sweet pix of you climbing Decker.
Yep, that's me.
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