mwandaw

Yesterday (Labor Day, Sept 1) at about 9:30 am my wife and I were riding our tandem southbound on the SGRT near Wardlow. We were out for a workout, and we were pounding along into a mild headwind at 20-21 mph. As we approached a couple of casual riders going in the opposite direction I also noticed a group of five or six fast riders catching up quickly to the casual riders. With the tailwind, I guess they were riding at least 25 mph. To my surprise, instead of slowing down until we passed, the group leader decided to pass the casual riders just as we passed them going in the opposite direction.

The casual riders were in the middle of their lane, and we were in the middle of our lane. The leader of the fast group went right through the middle, with his buddies right behind. There were just a few inches for the fast group to squeeze through. If someone had blinked, at least nine people would have been on the ground, probably with nasty injuries. The casual riders didn't see them coming, and one was so surprised that she screamed in fear.

I went to school at UC Davis, where there are thousands of bike riders on campus, and about one bike-vs-bike fatality every year. Those fatalities are stark reminders that bike-vs-bike crashes can be very, very serious.

Despite that, as enthusiastic riders, my wife and I don't have any complaint with fast riders or even fast pacelines on the SGRT. However, anyone riding there needs to comprehend that there are walkers, joggers, daydreamers, horses, dogs, beach cruisers, kids with training wheels, homeless people, drunks, potheads and much more on the trail, and opposite direction traffic is separated by just a couple of feet.

As a rider's speed increases, so does their potential to inflict injuries on themselves and others. Fast riders need to be extra aware of those around them, and they need to leave plenty of room and time for braking, maneuvering or whatever else is needed to avoid crashes with the less able trail users around them.

Above all, group leaders need to make good decisions, and the group leader we encountered made a very bad decision. He should be ashamed, and he needs to do better in the future. Slowing down for 15 seconds in order to pass safely is a far better decision than putting the lives of you, your buddies and other riders in jeopardy. Go ahead and ride fast, but do it safely. If you need ultimate speed, enter an organized competition. Don't do it on the SGRT.

Rick@OCRR

Just another reason (as if I really needed another!) not to ride SGRT or SART.

Rick / OCRR

Jed19

Yeah, be very careful on those river trails. I have had a roadie almost plow into me at full speed from the opposite direction on the SART. What was unbelievable was that he had his face/eyes down and did not see me until I managed to avoid him while yelling. I still get shudders when I think about it.

Flying Merkel

If you crash into a loaded beach cruiser, it's going to hurt. The M in MUP stands for multiuse, not My race track.

Scary incident, and the fault of the fast guy's poor judgement.

TGT1

For some reason this sort of behavior seems to be most prevalent between the ocean and the 91.

I've seen it before, several times.

Maybe it's because they are still fresh?

It's also the most crowded portion of the trail with lots of kids, pedestrians and casual riders from the adjacent parks.

Once you get north of the 91 there's plenty of opportunity and space to go fast without endangering anyone until you get to Whittier Narrows and then again at Santa Fe Dam.

jmX

I rode the SART for 39 miles yesterday and saw maybe 8 cyclists the entire time. There is no better or safer place to ride a bike IMO.

Anyway, as somebody who almost exclusively rides the SART, I think if you see a situation like that you should probably move over to the right side to make way. They're stupid for threading the needle like that, but you seem like you could have made the situation a bit safer too. It's usually obvious when the timing will be just wrong enough that you have the chance of going three wide, and typically I'll take action.

Jon

John R

When will these clubs, pelotons, and fast groups realize that both SART and SGRT are public trails? Joggers, walkers, mothers pushing strollers, and slow riders have just much right to the trail as these bozos. It gives cyclist such a bad image when they blow by slower riders screaming "On your Left". If you want hammer and work on your strava KOMs, do it on the streets. GMR, Santiago Cyn, PCH, Laguna Cyn RD. Turnbal Cyn, HWY 39 to Crytal lake are excelente roads for this.

mwandaw

Like you, I think the river trails are inherently safer than most city streets. In fact, I rode on the SGRT at about 12:45 pm yesterday and saw just a few trail users. It was quiet, safe and enjoyable. Part of the problem a few days ago was that we rode during "prime time", namely mid-morning on a holiday.

Everything happened very quickly. Remember, our closing speed was about 45 mph. By the time I realized they were going to ride up the middle, it was too late for me to move over. Any maneuvering I had done at the last second might have made things worse and resulted in a collision.

I was completely surprised by the fast group's action. Now I'll be on the lookout, and hopefully I'll have time to take action next time. As they say, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

(What I feel like doing is parking our tandem right across the middle of the trail, but of course I won't do that. )

bikemig 

I ride a MUP on a regular basis. I love my daily ride but I don't love everyone who uses it.

You can't count on the other users doing the right thing. So I slow down and move over when it gets a bit too crowded. The best way to stay safe is to figure that the other person will do the wrong thing at precisely the wrong time and act accordingly.

eriku16

I'm not from around here originally. The SoCal urban/suburban sprawl is vast and daunting from somebody use to endless country roads. I find SGRT and the trail network due to their terrain, heaven for doing base/recovery efforts. When I'm on them, I use commonsense, watch out for hazards and slow down accordingly. But I feel that the (very few) non cyclists there should exercise extreme caution as the paths were not designed with them in mind.

TrojanHorse

I noticed you substituted long hills for the flat lands of SART...

Do joggers and walkers worry about giving joggers and walkers a bad name when they jog or walk 4 abreast on the river trails? I typically do a lot of mixed riding... as in I'll ride 10 miles or so to get to one of the trails (SGRT or SART depending on where I am) and then put in 10 or 20 miles on the trail. Streets are fine, but the bad habits you observe in joggers, walkers etc. are present when they are driving cars too, never mind all the stop lights. I love waiting 2 min. at a red light, it really enhances the workout. There are no such impediments on the river trails, so i'm going to continue riding on the trails too.

* I am in no way advocating riding like an a-hole but I am also ready and willing to ride my bicycle on the bicycle trail that other people also use, and yes, I slow down for kids.

John R

I'm in no way trying to tell riders to stay off of SART or SGRT. It's nice to be able to ride for 25 miles with no stop lights or cars. What I am trying to suggest is that riders show some common courtesy to the public. Slowing down and showing a smile without a pissed off attitude goes along way.

GP

How do you know they're the same people? cough, cough, stalker, cough.

Leo90604

Riding river trails are the safest way to get a ride in. The issue is some people who are doing paceline wants to keep that avg speed going which is hard. The rider in front needs to think of everyone's safety first. Now when riding in a paceline, the rider in front will yell On your left to notify they are passing. Issue is at times people have their music blasting on both ears and they are riding in the middle of the lane.

I've seen this happen often and we just slow down until it is safe to pass. Now that is the correct decision. No one owns the lanes, but it is nice if people showed common courtesy for each other. When I say "On you left" and pass them I say thank you if they move over. I stay on the right if I ride solo.
Now I have not mentioned people walking\running the opposite direction towards you on the same side. People who walk their dogs and dogs are in the middle of the lane. I've been chased by dogs in SART (it was fun(ny)).

Just be courteous , aware and don't be that A**h*l*.

TrojanHorse

I'm assuming we don't have a population of river livers. I could be wrong. that collection of mirrors and tiles on the ground by the big A might mean something.

Dunbar

Agreed, although the river trail is so narrow that three across at ~45mph closing speeds is scary close. Whenever I'm in a situation like that on the beach path here on the west side I either speed up or slow down but I always try to time it so you're not too close for comfort. I used to have the "I slow down for nothing" mentality but I would have frequent close calls and eventually came to my senses. I will say that the most annoying thing is people riding three across in the oncoming direction hogging the whole bike path staring off into oblivion. It's like "hello, where the F did you want me to go?"

TrojanHorse

OK, SART by Edna Park at 6:45 on a weekday night is a bad place to want to time trial... tons of people doing tons of different things, including one little kid that was zig zagging all over the path. I had to come to a complete stop for that fella, didn't want to flatten him.

And halfway between McFadden and Edinger... there is a ton of glass all over the place. I was cruising through and suddently WHACK WHACK WHACK. I thought I busted a spoke and it was hitting something, but as it turns out, I picked up what I can only describe as a spike - it went through my tire in two places and I got to change my tire kneeling in random bits of glass. The "spike" looked like about the thickness of a tent stake, but bent in the middle to make a nice hook feature. I'm sticking to the Yorba Park end of SART next week, I hate changing flats.

John R

There's nothing like changing a flat in front of a bunch homeless people and gangbangers. I stay off SART south of Edna park.

TrojanHorse

A couple cyclists asked me if everything was OK, I said no, and they kept going. As it turns out, I had one park boot left so everything worked out fine. PSA: the adhesive on those apparently goes bad after a year or two. It stuck well enough to get the tire remounted and inflated though.

John R

I cut the bead off old folding tires and make my own boot. On the tandem I carry two tubes. Nothing replaces being prepared.

TrojanHorse

Amen. I've used patches and/or dollar bills in the past, but the park boots are easier to use. (and pretty cheap)

Astrozombie

Thought you were gonna say you saw someone get stabbed.....what knuckleheads, at least in racing you are all going in the same direction, going head on at 20+ aint gonna be pretty

diphthong

between this thread and the past others regarding sart and sgrt, it would seem that many rides entail robbery, collisions, near collisions, flats flats and more flats,
headwinds, near death experiences, wheelset failure, sliding down embankments, drunkeness and other forms of intoxication, gangbanger threats (real or implied),
tomfoolery and general wankerdom. an uninterrupted ride to/from the coast sounds great in concept but is apparently often sorely lacking in execution.
mups suck as training grounds and can never be relied as more than a casual, < 15 mph ride. to expect more is to court disappointment and shame.
the san diego county mups generally bite and i've found the orange county ones fairly docile but it sounds like the la ones have elevated it to modern art. time to visit.

furiousferret

I can't really defend the actions of the group and really don't like any form of paceline on a bike path. My problem with SART is that much of the funding is as a bicycle commuter trail, and that's what it should be. Multi use doesn't reallly work because bicycles do not stop on a dime or turn quickly, and many walkers (especially dogs and 5 years olds) make poor decisions on the trail. Politicians don't want to hear that because its not the solution that makes everyone happy however separating bikes, cars, and pedestrians is the safest solution.

Luckily the SART out here in San Bernardino is relatively empty, being the fattest county in the state means no walkers!

TrojanHorse

I totally disagree - the SART and SGRT trails are spectacular training grounds with occasional bouts of idiocy. I'm sure most of us could post "yep, had a great ride" every time we rode on one but that's no fun.

I think I've had two flats on SART in 5 years of fairly frequent riding on it, although this week's was the most spectacular flat I've ever had.