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Tandem Cycling A bicycle built for two. Want to find out more about this wonderful world of tandems? Check out this forum to talk with other tandem enthusiasts. Captains and stokers welcome!

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Old 03-31-15, 12:53 PM   #1
akexpress
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New cable less Calfee build

I finished the build on our new updated Calfee frame. It is the first bike I/we have owned that does not have a cable, quite an evolution in bicycle technology . Completed weight without pedals and our lighter saddles is just slightly over 32 lbs which I am pleased with for a coupled bike with dual disc brakes. Here are our build specs
Calfee Tetra with couplers sm/sm
20mm Headtube extension
Custom shade shifting metal flake paint
Whisky fork with tapered head tube
Chris king headset
Bushnell Eccentric
15mm front thru axle/100mm
142x12 rear thru axle
Shimamo Ultegra DI2 11 speed internal cable routing with seat post battery
11-36 Santana 11 speed cassette
Rear K-edge cage modification (moved from our 10 speed derailleur)
Lightening carbon 170mm cranks with Praxis chainrings 50/34
Gates belt drive
Thomson masterpiece seat posts
Enve carbon captain stem
Trailtech fixed length stoker stem
FSA carbon wing handle bars
Cane creek stoker rests
Sella Anataomica saddles
Shimano RS785 hydraulic brakes
Jaqwire hy/flow custom hydraulic lines front and rear
Shimano XTR icetech rotors 180/203
White industry hubs CLD
DT aerocomp spokes
Zipp 404 rims 28 hole
28mm continental 4000s II tires

We also built a set of White industry 6 bolt hubs with Velocity Aieleron rims for travel wheels where we expect bad roads. We have plenty of clearance for 28mm tires and might be able to fit larger.
The rear hydraulic hose guides are designed so we can remove the rear caliper and coil the hose with the caliper attached with the handlebar for packing in the S&S cases

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Last edited by akexpress; 03-31-15 at 01:07 PM. Reason: added info
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Old 03-31-15, 01:06 PM   #2
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Did you put the larger rotor on the rear?
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Old 03-31-15, 01:18 PM   #3
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Did you put the larger rotor on the rear?
yes the Whisky fork only has room for a 185mm rotor
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Old 03-31-15, 08:40 PM   #4
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That's nice, and pretty to boot.
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Old 04-01-15, 12:41 AM   #5
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You forgot to mention the most important part of the whole build - Lizard Skins bar tape. I love that stuff.
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Old 04-01-15, 08:08 AM   #6
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Wow - VERY NICE!

Please keep us updated on your thoughts on the new build and specifically that new fork, thru axle, and the brakes.
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Old 04-01-15, 03:58 PM   #7
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That looks awesome! Where did you get the wheels built up? What are your thoughts on the differences between the Zipp 404 rims and the Enve 65 rims for this setup?
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Old 04-03-15, 09:28 PM   #8
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That looks awesome! Where did you get the wheels built up? What are your thoughts on the differences between the Zipp 404 rims and the Enve 65 rims for this setup?
see the Wheelbuilder.com stickers on the rims
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Old 04-04-15, 08:20 AM   #9
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Bryan is right Wheelbuilders.com did the build. The Zipp rims were quite a bit less expensive then the enve rims. Wheelbuilders works extensively with Zipp and has access to rims not otherwise available and had some 28 hole rims in stock. They had built our original wheel set for our first Calfee frame and did an awesome job that never saw a truing stand in 18k miles so I was very comfortable with their skill. Calfee has them built most of their custom wheels so they come highly recommended . We have a few other Zipp wheels on our singles and they have been trouble free. So far the White industry hubs have some of the smoothest bearings of any wheels we have rode. On the few miles we have on the bike so far the wheels are absolutely silent which some deep dish carbon wheels are notoriously loud and droning. They ride very nice torsionally and bike is handling great and fork tracks very well. We are very pleased with the new build and frame modifications.
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Old 04-04-15, 09:30 AM   #10
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Bryan is right Wheelbuilders.com did the build. The Zipp rims were quite a bit less expensive then the enve rims. Wheelbuilders works extensively with Zipp and has access to rims not otherwise available and had some 28 hole rims in stock. They had built our original wheel set for our first Calfee frame and did an awesome job that never saw a truing stand in 18k miles so I was very comfortable with their skill. Calfee has them built most of their custom wheels so they come highly recommended . We have a few other Zipp wheels on our singles and they have been trouble free. So far the White industry hubs have some of the smoothest bearings of any wheels we have rode. On the few miles we have on the bike so far the wheels are absolutely silent which some deep dish carbon wheels are notoriously loud and droning. They ride very nice torsionally and bike is handling great and fork tracks very well. We are very pleased with the new build and frame modifications.
thanks for the feedback. I really like the decisions you made on your build. I am looking at getting a build that is very similar to yours, but without the couplers. We will likely get a nude finish on our bike. What are your thoughts onhaving Calfee do the build on the complete bike vs. having a local bike shop do the build? I moved to Prtland last year from the Bay area. We could get down to calfee with a quick flight, but i could see some advantages in being so close to the bike shop. But i was wondering if calfee would do a better job with the build since they are the frame builders and are so familiar with complete bike builds for their tandems.
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Old 04-04-15, 02:01 PM   #11
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Bryan is right Wheelbuilders.com did the build. The Zipp rims were quite a bit less expensive then the enve rims. Wheelbuilders works extensively with Zipp and has access to rims not otherwise available and had some 28 hole rims in stock. They had built our original wheel set for our first Calfee frame and did an awesome job that never saw a truing stand in 18k miles so I was very comfortable with their skill. Calfee has them built most of their custom wheels so they come highly recommended . We have a few other Zipp wheels on our singles and they have been trouble free. So far the White industry hubs have some of the smoothest bearings of any wheels we have rode. On the few miles we have on the bike so far the wheels are absolutely silent which some deep dish carbon wheels are notoriously loud and droning. They ride very nice torsionally and bike is handling great and fork tracks very well. We are very pleased with the new build and frame modifications.
Mark, what are the profile specs for those 404 rims you got from Wheelbuilders? All Zipp has on their website is the Firestrike and Firecrest models and those are in a wider (preferred) format. Also, are your rims V-shaped or slightly bulbous as the the new models? Can you share pricing from WB?
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Old 04-05-15, 10:16 AM   #12
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Bryan
We have the Firecrest X58 rims that are the wider format with a bulbous profile. Wheelbuilders has them in custom hole configurations i.e. the 28 hole that we used. They are build up with DT aero comp spokes and sap in brass nipples. The wheel set including the White Industry CLD hubs was about $2350 after the discount of buying two sets of wheels from them as they built the other set with Aileron rims on WI hubs at the same time for $920. Usually I build my own wheels but could not get the Zipp rims direct with 28 holes so for the $80 dollars labor they charge to build it was an easy decision to have Wheelbuilders complete them.
Bradcyles
Your decision as to whom to do the final build I guess depends on how comfortable you are working on your own bike. If you don't work on it maybe a local build is preferred so you start a relationship with the shop right off the bat. Otherwise Rob the mechanic at Calfee is top notch. With DI2 routine adjustments are almost non existent. I do all my own builds so I did not have to make that choice. I think that it is important that the shop have tandem experience if you go that route. Either way since you are building a non coupled bike you might want to have Calfee run the DI2 wires since it is a bit tricky on the long runs especially around the bottom brackets. You could do it yourself with the new Park tool routing tools that are now available to make it easier. You also will need to make custom length hydraulic hoses especially for the rear and it is a bit of a pain to bleed the long rear hose.
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Old 04-05-15, 03:02 PM   #13
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Thanks for the additional info Mark. With my rough calculations it seems Wheelbuilder's posted wheel pricing breaks down to approximately $800/rim.

Brad, found a 404 video by Western Bikeworks in Portland. Might be a place to go look at them in person.
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Old 04-06-15, 11:56 AM   #14
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The bike looks great.

Our build will be a very similar spec. But we have a few heavier items -- large/small frame, FSA crank, WI ISO hubs, and Elite seat posts. Plus the Selle Anatomica tax.

I'm looking forward to my first no cables bike since the coaster brake days as a kid.

jeffs
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Old 04-06-15, 01:31 PM   #15
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Bryan
We have the Firecrest X58 rims that are the wider format with a bulbous profile. Wheelbuilders has them in custom hole configurations i.e. the 28 hole that we used. They are build up with DT aero comp spokes and sap in brass nipples. The wheel set including the White Industry CLD hubs was about $2350 after the discount of buying two sets of wheels from them as they built the other set with Aileron rims on WI hubs at the same time for $920. Usually I build my own wheels but could not get the Zipp rims direct with 28 holes so for the $80 dollars labor they charge to build it was an easy decision to have Wheelbuilders complete them.
Bradcyles
Your decision as to whom to do the final build I guess depends on how comfortable you are working on your own bike. If you don't work on it maybe a local build is preferred so you start a relationship with the shop right off the bat. Otherwise Rob the mechanic at Calfee is top notch. With DI2 routine adjustments are almost non existent. I do all my own builds so I did not have to make that choice. I think that it is important that the shop have tandem experience if you go that route. Either way since you are building a non coupled bike you might want to have Calfee run the DI2 wires since it is a bit tricky on the long runs especially around the bottom brackets. You could do it yourself with the new Park tool routing tools that are now available to make it easier. You also will need to make custom length hydraulic hoses especially for the rear and it is a bit of a pain to bleed the long rear hose.
Thanks for the feedback. I decided to go with the build at Calfee. I talked to them this morning about the build. I really want to go with the Zipp 404 rims, but it sounds like Wheelbuilder is having difficult time getting new 28 spoke Zipp 404 rims, so there's a possibility it might not be an option.

I requested the White Industry CLD hubs you used. Mike Moore at Calfee also suggested considering the DT Swiss CLD hubs. Did you consider those? If so, what do you see as the tradeoffs between the DT Swiss and WI hubs? They also initially suggested the Aero Lite spokes for the build (instead of the Aero Comp spokes). Would you recommend the Aero Comp spokes for their increased strength over the Aero Lites?

They also don't have any availability of the Whisky forks right now, so he is suggesting the new TRP thru-axle fork, so it looks like we will likely go with that.
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Old 04-06-15, 04:46 PM   #16
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Brad, sorry about that. Our new frame is in paint now (just getting painted decals on nude frame), so we may have got the last shot of Whisky.

Hubs:
DT: IMO, the only advantage to DT is the easy axle end change outs - QR to TA. Drawbacks to DT appear to be only 2 x 6902 bearings in rear hub and aluminum axles.
WI: Bearings... 3 x 6902 plus a 3802 in rear hub. CroMo axles instead of Aluminum. CLD weight is near par with DT 240. Less expensive.

DT spokes:
For the last year, we have had the aero lights on our rim brake front (32h) and aero comps on the disc rear (32h). The latter do not appear to be all that much thicker than the lights, though the specs say otherwise. The comps also cost much less than the lights, so you can save at least $100 in spokes alone. We have not had any issues with either spoke model. Our new disc hub front (also 32h) will be aero comps.

Given that we are talking about 28h disc wheels for tandem use, I think the beefier comps are the correct choice.

Last edited by twocicle; 04-06-15 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 04-06-15, 05:40 PM   #17
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+1 to what Bryan told you plus I like the fact that White Industry are US made hubs and have good customer service.
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Old 04-06-15, 06:01 PM   #18
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The bike looks great.

Our build will be a very similar spec. But we have a few heavier items -- large/small frame, FSA crank, WI ISO hubs, and Elite seat posts. Plus the Selle Anatomica tax.

I'm looking forward to my first no cables bike since the coaster brake days as a kid. If you want to eliminate the Selle Anatomica tax you might look into the crowd fund campaign they have to build a 170 gram saddle

jeffs
If you want to eliminate the Selle Anatomica tax you might look into the crowd fund campaign they have to build a 170 gram saddle
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