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  1. #1
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    New cable less Calfee build

    I finished the build on our new updated Calfee frame. It is the first bike I/we have owned that does not have a cable, quite an evolution in bicycle technology . Completed weight without pedals and our lighter saddles is just slightly over 32 lbs which I am pleased with for a coupled bike with dual disc brakes. Here are our build specs
    Calfee Tetra with couplers sm/sm
    20mm Headtube extension
    Custom shade shifting metal flake paint
    Whisky fork with tapered head tube
    Chris king headset
    Bushnell Eccentric
    15mm front thru axle/100mm
    142x12 rear thru axle
    Shimamo Ultegra DI2 11 speed internal cable routing with seat post battery
    11-36 Santana 11 speed cassette
    Rear K-edge cage modification (moved from our 10 speed derailleur)
    Lightening carbon 170mm cranks with Praxis chainrings 50/34
    Gates belt drive
    Thomson masterpiece seat posts
    Enve carbon captain stem
    Trailtech fixed length stoker stem
    FSA carbon wing handle bars
    Cane creek stoker rests
    Sella Anataomica saddles
    Shimano RS785 hydraulic brakes
    Jaqwire hy/flow custom hydraulic lines front and rear
    Shimano XTR icetech rotors 180/203
    White industry hubs CLD
    DT aerocomp spokes
    Zipp 404 rims 28 hole
    28mm continental 4000s II tires

    We also built a set of White industry 6 bolt hubs with Velocity Aieleron rims for travel wheels where we expect bad roads. We have plenty of clearance for 28mm tires and might be able to fit larger.
    The rear hydraulic hose guides are designed so we can remove the rear caliper and coil the hose with the caliper attached with the handlebar for packing in the S&S cases

    IMG_1591.jpgIMG_1595.jpgIMG_1599.jpgIMG_1601.jpg
    Last edited by akexpress; 03-31-15 at 01:07 PM. Reason: added info

  2. #2
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    Did you put the larger rotor on the rear?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstyer View Post
    Did you put the larger rotor on the rear?
    yes the Whisky fork only has room for a 185mm rotor

  4. #4
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    That's nice, and pretty to boot.

  5. #5
    Gear Combo Guru Chris_W's Avatar
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    Spec' Tarmac (road), Spec' Secteur Disc (commuter & tourer), Salsa Mamasita (MTB), CoMo Speedster (tandem), Surly Big Dummy (cargo), Airnimal (folder), a train pass, and NO car :)
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    You forgot to mention the most important part of the whole build - Lizard Skins bar tape. I love that stuff.

  6. #6
    Senior Member colotandem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akexpress View Post
    Wow - VERY NICE!

    Please keep us updated on your thoughts on the new build and specifically that new fork, thru axle, and the brakes.

  7. #7
    Senior Member bradcycles's Avatar
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    That looks awesome! Where did you get the wheels built up? What are your thoughts on the differences between the Zipp 404 rims and the Enve 65 rims for this setup?

  8. #8
    Clipless in Coeur d'Alene twocicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradcycles View Post
    That looks awesome! Where did you get the wheels built up? What are your thoughts on the differences between the Zipp 404 rims and the Enve 65 rims for this setup?
    see the Wheelbuilder.com stickers on the rims

  9. #9
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    Bryan is right Wheelbuilders.com did the build. The Zipp rims were quite a bit less expensive then the enve rims. Wheelbuilders works extensively with Zipp and has access to rims not otherwise available and had some 28 hole rims in stock. They had built our original wheel set for our first Calfee frame and did an awesome job that never saw a truing stand in 18k miles so I was very comfortable with their skill. Calfee has them built most of their custom wheels so they come highly recommended . We have a few other Zipp wheels on our singles and they have been trouble free. So far the White industry hubs have some of the smoothest bearings of any wheels we have rode. On the few miles we have on the bike so far the wheels are absolutely silent which some deep dish carbon wheels are notoriously loud and droning. They ride very nice torsionally and bike is handling great and fork tracks very well. We are very pleased with the new build and frame modifications.

  10. #10
    Senior Member bradcycles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akexpress View Post
    Bryan is right Wheelbuilders.com did the build. The Zipp rims were quite a bit less expensive then the enve rims. Wheelbuilders works extensively with Zipp and has access to rims not otherwise available and had some 28 hole rims in stock. They had built our original wheel set for our first Calfee frame and did an awesome job that never saw a truing stand in 18k miles so I was very comfortable with their skill. Calfee has them built most of their custom wheels so they come highly recommended . We have a few other Zipp wheels on our singles and they have been trouble free. So far the White industry hubs have some of the smoothest bearings of any wheels we have rode. On the few miles we have on the bike so far the wheels are absolutely silent which some deep dish carbon wheels are notoriously loud and droning. They ride very nice torsionally and bike is handling great and fork tracks very well. We are very pleased with the new build and frame modifications.
    thanks for the feedback. I really like the decisions you made on your build. I am looking at getting a build that is very similar to yours, but without the couplers. We will likely get a nude finish on our bike. What are your thoughts onhaving Calfee do the build on the complete bike vs. having a local bike shop do the build? I moved to Prtland last year from the Bay area. We could get down to calfee with a quick flight, but i could see some advantages in being so close to the bike shop. But i was wondering if calfee would do a better job with the build since they are the frame builders and are so familiar with complete bike builds for their tandems.

  11. #11
    Clipless in Coeur d'Alene twocicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akexpress View Post
    Bryan is right Wheelbuilders.com did the build. The Zipp rims were quite a bit less expensive then the enve rims. Wheelbuilders works extensively with Zipp and has access to rims not otherwise available and had some 28 hole rims in stock. They had built our original wheel set for our first Calfee frame and did an awesome job that never saw a truing stand in 18k miles so I was very comfortable with their skill. Calfee has them built most of their custom wheels so they come highly recommended . We have a few other Zipp wheels on our singles and they have been trouble free. So far the White industry hubs have some of the smoothest bearings of any wheels we have rode. On the few miles we have on the bike so far the wheels are absolutely silent which some deep dish carbon wheels are notoriously loud and droning. They ride very nice torsionally and bike is handling great and fork tracks very well. We are very pleased with the new build and frame modifications.
    Mark, what are the profile specs for those 404 rims you got from Wheelbuilders? All Zipp has on their website is the Firestrike and Firecrest models and those are in a wider (preferred) format. Also, are your rims V-shaped or slightly bulbous as the the new models? Can you share pricing from WB?

  12. #12
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    Bryan
    We have the Firecrest X58 rims that are the wider format with a bulbous profile. Wheelbuilders has them in custom hole configurations i.e. the 28 hole that we used. They are build up with DT aero comp spokes and sap in brass nipples. The wheel set including the White Industry CLD hubs was about $2350 after the discount of buying two sets of wheels from them as they built the other set with Aileron rims on WI hubs at the same time for $920. Usually I build my own wheels but could not get the Zipp rims direct with 28 holes so for the $80 dollars labor they charge to build it was an easy decision to have Wheelbuilders complete them.
    Bradcyles
    Your decision as to whom to do the final build I guess depends on how comfortable you are working on your own bike. If you don't work on it maybe a local build is preferred so you start a relationship with the shop right off the bat. Otherwise Rob the mechanic at Calfee is top notch. With DI2 routine adjustments are almost non existent. I do all my own builds so I did not have to make that choice. I think that it is important that the shop have tandem experience if you go that route. Either way since you are building a non coupled bike you might want to have Calfee run the DI2 wires since it is a bit tricky on the long runs especially around the bottom brackets. You could do it yourself with the new Park tool routing tools that are now available to make it easier. You also will need to make custom length hydraulic hoses especially for the rear and it is a bit of a pain to bleed the long rear hose.

  13. #13
    Clipless in Coeur d'Alene twocicle's Avatar
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    Thanks for the additional info Mark. With my rough calculations it seems Wheelbuilder's posted wheel pricing breaks down to approximately $800/rim.

    Brad, found a 404 video by Western Bikeworks in Portland. Might be a place to go look at them in person.

  14. #14
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    The bike looks great.

    Our build will be a very similar spec. But we have a few heavier items -- large/small frame, FSA crank, WI ISO hubs, and Elite seat posts. Plus the Selle Anatomica tax.

    I'm looking forward to my first no cables bike since the coaster brake days as a kid.

    jeffs

  15. #15
    Senior Member bradcycles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akexpress View Post
    Bryan
    We have the Firecrest X58 rims that are the wider format with a bulbous profile. Wheelbuilders has them in custom hole configurations i.e. the 28 hole that we used. They are build up with DT aero comp spokes and sap in brass nipples. The wheel set including the White Industry CLD hubs was about $2350 after the discount of buying two sets of wheels from them as they built the other set with Aileron rims on WI hubs at the same time for $920. Usually I build my own wheels but could not get the Zipp rims direct with 28 holes so for the $80 dollars labor they charge to build it was an easy decision to have Wheelbuilders complete them.
    Bradcyles
    Your decision as to whom to do the final build I guess depends on how comfortable you are working on your own bike. If you don't work on it maybe a local build is preferred so you start a relationship with the shop right off the bat. Otherwise Rob the mechanic at Calfee is top notch. With DI2 routine adjustments are almost non existent. I do all my own builds so I did not have to make that choice. I think that it is important that the shop have tandem experience if you go that route. Either way since you are building a non coupled bike you might want to have Calfee run the DI2 wires since it is a bit tricky on the long runs especially around the bottom brackets. You could do it yourself with the new Park tool routing tools that are now available to make it easier. You also will need to make custom length hydraulic hoses especially for the rear and it is a bit of a pain to bleed the long rear hose.
    Thanks for the feedback. I decided to go with the build at Calfee. I talked to them this morning about the build. I really want to go with the Zipp 404 rims, but it sounds like Wheelbuilder is having difficult time getting new 28 spoke Zipp 404 rims, so there's a possibility it might not be an option.

    I requested the White Industry CLD hubs you used. Mike Moore at Calfee also suggested considering the DT Swiss CLD hubs. Did you consider those? If so, what do you see as the tradeoffs between the DT Swiss and WI hubs? They also initially suggested the Aero Lite spokes for the build (instead of the Aero Comp spokes). Would you recommend the Aero Comp spokes for their increased strength over the Aero Lites?

    They also don't have any availability of the Whisky forks right now, so he is suggesting the new TRP thru-axle fork, so it looks like we will likely go with that.

  16. #16
    Clipless in Coeur d'Alene twocicle's Avatar
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    Brad, sorry about that. Our new frame is in paint now (just getting painted decals on nude frame), so we may have got the last shot of Whisky.

    Hubs:
    DT: IMO, the only advantage to DT is the easy axle end change outs - QR to TA. Drawbacks to DT appear to be only 2 x 6902 bearings in rear hub and aluminum axles.
    WI: Bearings... 3 x 6902 plus a 3802 in rear hub. CroMo axles instead of Aluminum. CLD weight is near par with DT 240. Less expensive.

    DT spokes:
    For the last year, we have had the aero lights on our rim brake front (32h) and aero comps on the disc rear (32h). The latter do not appear to be all that much thicker than the lights, though the specs say otherwise. The comps also cost much less than the lights, so you can save at least $100 in spokes alone. We have not had any issues with either spoke model. Our new disc hub front (also 32h) will be aero comps.

    Given that we are talking about 28h disc wheels for tandem use, I think the beefier comps are the correct choice.
    Last edited by twocicle; 04-06-15 at 05:40 PM.

  17. #17
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    +1 to what Bryan told you plus I like the fact that White Industry are US made hubs and have good customer service.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by swiz View Post
    The bike looks great.

    Our build will be a very similar spec. But we have a few heavier items -- large/small frame, FSA crank, WI ISO hubs, and Elite seat posts. Plus the Selle Anatomica tax.

    I'm looking forward to my first no cables bike since the coaster brake days as a kid. If you want to eliminate the Selle Anatomica tax you might look into the crowd fund campaign they have to build a 170 gram saddle

    jeffs
    If you want to eliminate the Selle Anatomica tax you might look into the crowd fund campaign they have to build a 170 gram saddle

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