Jkey6

A lot of tandem photos seem to show the bikes fitted with either ENVE 45 or ZIPP 404 (Clydesdale) carbon wheels.

I wouldn't expect either have the weight limits for tandem applications?

We are choosing new set of wheels for Calfee so looking at all options.

300 lb team, no touring, rolling hills.

Anyone have experience with either of these, and if so were they stock or custom.

DubT

We are also a 300 pound team who live in the Midwest. We have a Calfee and use HED 3's on our bike. They have aluminum brake tracks which allow us to safely utilized rim brakes. The wheels have thousands of miles on them with "0" issues. We also do not tour or carry heavy loads. The 300 pounds is over the the HED 3 recommended weight limit but it is a good strong wheel. Ritterview has Enve wheels on their tandem and they also have enjoyed thousands of trouble free miles. You might check with him to see exactly which rims he is using.

twocicle

Actually, most tandems with these carbon rims are 50-80mm tall and usually 28 spokes. The 28 spoke count is sometimes available as a "Clydesdale" or "Control" (FastForward) build. The 28 spoke count (minimum) requirement does tend to limit rim availability as the majority of carbon rims have a max in the range of 16-20 spoke holes.

Carbon clincher bead hooks are typically thicker than alloy rims, so you should ensure the rim has a minimum inner measurement of 17mm or more, which means an outer of at least 25mm wide. The ENVE Classic 65 would be a choice rim if the inner were not so narrow.

Some teams are using the Zipp 404 (58mm tall). I believe Wheelbuilder.com can source a 28-spoke version for you. Zipp's weight limit is posted as something like 250lbs.

If on a budget and wanting a disc-only rim, Whisky has/had a No. 7, 50mm carbon rim available for the last year or so. Oddly, the 50mm is currently missing from their website, so not sure what the status is. Nice thing about these is that they did come in 28 spokes, wide profile, and could be bought for around $400/per rim. Oh, they also post on the website "no rider weight limit", but other websites show 350lbs max (sufficient for many teams). "Plowhorse" on this forum built up a set last year and reported they were doing quite well.

If more adventuresome, I've been in touch with Light-Bicycles (China). They have been producing carbon rims for a few years and everything I've heard (LBS and web) has been good news. My inquiry dug up a 55mm tall x 25mm wide "U-Shaped" carbon rim, 28h, for just under $200/ea ($440/pair total including shipping). These are made with a "basalt" rim brake track, so not disc specific and quoted sub-500gm weight. The shape is very similar to Zipp Firecrest/strike, but without any golf ball dimples. The posted rider weight limit for these is something like 130kg (285lbs), so pretty much equal to what Zipp, HED, etc post as their limits. Light-Bicycles has other rim profiles up to 90mm tall, or so, but my target is in the 55mm range. I think LB will produce any hole count you want (I requested 28h) and I doubt there is any special offset or reinforced area around the misc drilled spoke holes, so I would likely spec my build to include nipple washers.

Here's a profile pic of the LB 55mm U-shaped rims:

Ritterview

I've extolled the benefits of ENVE's on more than one occasion, so I don't want to be tiresome and repetitive.

As can be seen here in a a search here for Ritterview and ENVE.

There's this post, that's telling.

You'd have to decide between Classic and SES. The number of spoke holes available is a factor, and whether the spoke holes are molded (an ENVE patent).

Rolfs vs. ENVE's.

Or 29 XC?

Where you are riding matters, in terms of wind, hills, whether you are to have one or two disc brakes, etc.

twocicle

The problem I'm seeing with many 29er carbon rims is that they are designed for mtn tires and pressures. Meaning, max pressures of 40psi and such.

For example, Specialized has a couple great looking set of 32 spoke Roval Control wheels with DT 350 disc hubs, both in Carbon, 1580gm for $1200 (240lb weight limit) and Alloy, 1550gm at only $600 (no posted weight limit I can find) for complete wheelsets! Sadly, the carbon rims have a max 40psi which is far too low for any road setup.

Maybe an alert here for anyone setting up a 29er tandem with fat tires. Starting at $600 bucks the alloys might be worth a look.

Jkey6

I like what I read on the HED3 wheelset. What hub spacing do you have? Our bike is 135mm, seems the HED 3's are all 130mm, were your's a custom build or is there a way to adapt 130mm for wider rear spacing?

DubT

Our frame spacing is 135 and the 130 wheel fits fine. I spoke to Rob (the builder) at Calfee to see if it would be an issue and he assured me that it would not. The quick release pulls the frame up tight to the wheel.

colotandem

Rear spacing of 132.5 is all the rage!

In all seriousness, it works very well and opens up to a huge range of wheel (& hub) availability.

Jkey6

This is great news! So, I just mounted one of my road wheels to check fit, and really didn't even notice the width difference.

Decision made, we are going with a used set of HED 3... they look great, are strong, aluminum brake track, aero and not terrible heavy - not to mention there are endless sets on ebay so they'll be a bargain compared to every other option.

DubT

I hope that you like them as well as we like ours!

diabloridr

Used wheels with no knowledge of their history being used outside of their permitted weight?

What can go wrong?

Jkey6

I would only consider wheels that others have had good experience with, and if used, then only wheels that are a couple years old, and inspect them closely for any signs of damage or wear. Most (all?) structural issues show visible signs (incl carbon) if over stressed.

On tandem we all have to keep an eye on our wheels regardless of what they are. Guys who purchased new Rolf tandem specific (including me, I am one of them) thought they were good to go - until the spokes pulled through the rim.

DubT

The newest HED3 rear wheels are 11 speed compatible. You can call HED and they can give you the wheel number that corresponds to when they started producing them.

mstyer

According to the testing done by Tour magazine, the HED 3 was one of the heaviest and least stiff of the wheels tested, and was only moderately aero. Couple that with a 19mm width that leaves 25 or 28c tires more susceptible to rolling, and it looks like a poor combination.

TOUR QTR 4-2011

DubT

You might want to look at the report again, they tested the HED 3HD not the HED 3! Two different products with different applications.

Jkey6

Which width tire have you found works best with this combination?
Cheers.

DubT

I initially ran a 23 on the front and a 25 on the rear. I now run 25's front and rear. Can't tell much difference.

Ritterview

DubT now with 25 mm front and back. Progress!

Just one step away from the comfort providing, rolling resistance lowering, grip tenacity increasing, road irregularity taming, pinch-flat avoiding, stoker joy enhancing, 28 mm tires, front and back.

Jkey6

First real ride on the HRD 3s today. 41 miles, 3,800' climbing in the foothills of South and North Carolina. We ran 105 psi in front and rear, with 28mm Gatorskins. Overall, the wheels felt great. Definitely stiffer than our Rolf's, but not harsh. 25 to 30 mph wind the whole ride, so couldn't judge whether they were faster. HEDs
got blown around more than the Rolf's. Next time we ride in this much wind, I'll change the front to Rolf's.

Dean V

I have ridden Hed 3s on our tandem a fair bit. I swap out the front wheel on windy days.

DubT

We live in the midwest on the prairie so we almost always have wind, I have gotten used to the wind on the HED 3 front wheel and it is not really an issue.

Dean V

Probably depends a lot on how gusty it is. A steady wind is no problem but in hillier terrain with obstacles etc causing the wind to be all over the place I find it definitely moves the bike around some. I can usually tolerate it but my stoker finds it rather unnerving.

akexpress 

Update on our Zipp 404 28 spoke wheels on White Industry hubs. Now that the snow has left and we did a recent supported tour we have about 500 miles on our new wheels. We just rode a number of miles down the Mississippi on some very rough roads and the wheels performed flawlessly. We are pleased in all aspects. As we ride with the same people we have a pretty good judge of speeds and on every descent we were faster then normal probably due to the very aero nature of these wheels. We have Contintental Grand Prix 4000sII tires on them in 28mm which is wrong as these tires are huge but ride great. the White hubs are supper smooth as far bearings are concerned. Obviously we will have to see how they perform and hold up over time. We are a 310 lb team that rides fairly aggressively. The combo is highly recommended by us.

twocicle

... and to note for the "aero heads" in this forum... Mark is now also using f/r disc brakes, but as he indicates - is still rolling faster with better wheels. I'm not sure if Mark shaves his forearms for that "extra aero" advantage

akexpress 

I am pretty sure shaving my forearms would not mitigate my very non aero body. At least my wife gets a good draft off of me.