mtnbke

Okay, I've got two excellent condition brand new Continental Top Touring 2000 700x37 tires on the recently acquired Cannondale tandem (our second). We've gone a little tandem crazy having bought a Cannondale tandem for my father and his wife, but they didn't like tandems and gave it back. This came right after we bought a Burley Tandem for my oldest friends, they kept the tandem but never were even willing to try it. We also picked up a steel Santana Arriva tandem for friends to ride, and no one is interested. I'm not even a fan of steel tandems, but we were trying to put together our own little tandem group. Well I'm done buying people tandems, forever!

So we wanted to ride the newer Cannondale tandem that my Dad gave back to us. Last night I was putting some finishing touches on the bike before our maiden ride. In reality its a Cannondale the same as our existing one, only with a 1 1/8" steerer instead of the old 1", though I think the rear dropout spacing is still 140mm (not 145mm) though I'll have to check. Strangely the c-t seat tube is not quite 66cmm but a bit shorter as the older bike, the c-c measurement appears to be the same.

I've always been a HUGE fan of the TopTouring 2000 Continental tires and found a tandem width set and paid dearly for them, as they were NOS. Only to find out that the top of the tire was intermittently rubbing the chain stays, though strangely not on the sides. Apparently you can't fit 700x38 tires mounted on a Velocity Chukker rim into the Cannondale. Just a smidgen too tall on the tire (width is fine).

I really want the widest possible touring tire on this bike. We've had a history of wheel issues, and the new Hope/Chukker/48h wheel seems robust, but I don't want a narrow tire back there, just to be sure.

I normally love Contis, but I can't find a TopTouring or TopContact in 700x35. I'm now thinking of the Schwalbe Marathon Plus in 700x35. What do you guys think? Essentially we're about the heaviest tandem team around. Very motivated to start riding the bike again (just put a quill extender on it to bring up the bars as these are always too small for me anyway (Jumbo/Large which is effectively a 25"/23" and I ride a 69cm/27" Cannondale touring single. I'm 6'7" and I weigh about 400lbs, and really need to get back on the bike!

Team weighs about 570 lbs, and we'll be pulling a Wee-Hoo i-Go, and maybe a Chariot behind that, at times. I want a bombproof touring tire. Which I thought was the TopTouring 2000.

I've got a 700x28 Conti Touring or Contact tire back there now, temporarily, and it looks like a 23c racing tire on that Chukker rim. With this outlier load on the rear tire, what are the thoughts and recommendations?
Thoughts on recommended tires? Please be specific in terms of model/belt (kevlar guard?) etc. in terms of your experiences. For our purposes we aren't gong to consider anything folding.

I'm not up to speed on what is a great bombproof tire these days, the equivalent or better than the Conti TopTouring2000.

Vittoria makes some Randonneur City tires I see on Nashbar, but is the Schwalbe Marathon Plus still around? What is the "Best" tandem/touring tire for a 570lb team?

nfmisso

Given your weight, and team total weight (not too far off ours) - I would suggest that you focus on your front wheel and tire, which is carrying more load than the rear. I just built up a 48h Velocity NoBS rimmed front wheel; after some issues with a 40h Velocity Dyad rimmed wheel. Tires: Schwalbe Marathon 38-622 - just regular Marathons.

To confirm my recommendation, take a side view picture of your tandem, draw in a line for your center of mass, and one for your stoker's center of mass, and the center line half way between the front and rear axles. Using the distances, you can calculate the static (note: not dynamic) load on the front and rear wheels. The dynamic load on the rear wheel will go above static due to traction forces - not much. The dynamic load of the front wheel will go up dramatically due to braking forces.

mtnbke

I can do the calculations for recommended tire pressure from the formula on the Precision Tandems website. The front wheel isn't a problem actually. Its got a solid wheel and the Conti TopTouring 2000 700x38 on it. The problem is the rear of this second Cannondale tandem won't accept the 700x38 Conti TT2000 tire. The side clearance is actually fine, the problem is the "top" of the tire is interimittently hitting the chain stays. I'd have thought it would be the tire sides that were the problem.

Both wheels are fine. The rear is a 48h Velocity Chukker that Velocity hand built to rectify a service level issue from an idiotic shop that almost got us killed from a custom wheel build with a Dyad and some hipster employees that couldn't properly tension anything that wasn't going on a fixie. Velocity wanted to prove that their rims, and their Chukker was beyond adequate for us when I was about to try to go overkill with the Velocity Psycho. We haven't both been on the bike yet, I was taking the tandem out with just me on it, because we need to pull two WeeHoo Igo kid trailers and I wanted to try out the wheel. We didn't like the double Weehoo because one of the kids doesn't get to pedal. Kind of stupid actually. So now we need two bikes, and my Cannondale touring single is too big to use with the Weehoo. The Cannondale tandem is much lower at the stoker's seat post, so its perfect to pull the WeeHoo. One thing I learned from my wheel issues also is that for very heavy tandem teams, skewers matter. We now use a DT rear skewer the kind that you can spin tighten. I'll never use another skewer on a tandem ever again. I can get the DT safely and securely tight.

You said you had a Dyad issue. That was the rim that the local shop had screwed up the build for. However, I'm still convinced it might have worked had it been built with appropriate spokes and proper tension. The owner of Yellow Jersey in Madison has some misguided belief that lighter gauge spokes build stronger wheels. I actually use a 27" (630) Dyad w/48h that I had built custom by Peter White for my single. Its been a solid wheel. I know we needed 48 drill on the tandem, and strong spokes at proper tension at that. For really heavy tandem teams I'd recommend having Velocity hand build the wheel or some shop with significant touring/tandem experience like Peter White. The one thing I've learned is that average LBS can't build wheels for crap. It just isn't part of what bike mechanics do anymore, let alone try to build a wheel for a touring/tandem application. They can build fixie wheels in their sleep, I guess. So the wheels are not the issue anymore. I truly don't believe there is an issue with Dyad rims. They are great rims. However, I think when building a wheel for an outlier weight for a tandem team you need a true experienced professional building the wheel. Not an experienced wheel builder, but an experience TANDEM wheel builder. However, the wheels on our tandem are good.

The issue is my rear tire.

I can't fit a 700x38 Schwalbe Marathon. I could probably fit a 700x35 though. What is your thought on the Marathon versus the Marathon Plus? What do you compare it to in terms of durability. Right now the only tires I really know are the Marathon and Marathon Plus, the Continental touring tires, and the Vittoria Randonneur tire.

I'd love to have a 700x48 tire on that Chukker rim, but there just isn't clearance even for the 700x38. Which come to think about it, is kind of idiotic on Cannondale's behalf.

Tell me more about the Schwalbe.

mtnbke

I picked up some Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires late Tuesday night. It was 10pm and we were on our way to Children's Hospital Urgent Care for what turns out to be an ear infection on my four year old. Not only am I a TERRIBLE father to have stopped to pick these up, but it turns out they are 700x45 not 35s.

The train wreck continues.

I'm going to see if I have the clearance to mount one of the Marathon Plus 45s to the front, it might have the clearance with the unicrown fork. I doubt it though.

twocicle

If your rear brake is a disc, consider going with 650B rims instead of 700c? That should give you more clearance.

nfmisso

Are there any 48h ISO584 rims available? The Velocity Cliff Hanger only goes to 40H.

mtnbke

Guys that's actually the opposite of what I want. My older C'dale tandem actually fits 630 and 622 wheel sets. I hate 622s because they are proportionately too small, more so than the 630s. These bikes are really built up. My Cannondale touring bikes make the 630 wheels seem like the bike is a minivelo.

Tiny wheels on a small bike feel different than tiny wheels for my effective 69cm cockpit. If I could have found a Velocity Pscycho or Chukker in 630, I'd be there on the rear wheel, and having essentially no tire choices that would hold up to tandems.

If we ever did a custom tandem, I'd do some research on the 635 that I think are around in what, Germany? I'd try to find a 635 rim and tire that would work, buy boxes of them, and build the tandem with the marginally bigger wheels. My bikes just look so stupid with small little clown wheels.

ksisler

OP; You'll likely get a lot of replies advocating favorite tires. However, it is your money and I'd recommend you spend it on a pair of Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires and a folding one for your spare. I ride them all the time and have never flatted one (years and years of experience). Not the lightest, not the cheapest, not the easiest to mount, but very high likelyhood it will get you out to your endpoint and back home many, many times without you needing to worry about tire problems. If your wheel is 26 inch, the 26 x 1 3/4" is awesome. If your wheel is 700C, then look for one in about same width. About 65 PSI should be a good starting point.

I haven't used the regular Marathon's so don't offer advice on those.

/K

Darth Lefty 

You seem to get manic about parts and bikes without getting to use them much. I think you should probably concentrate on getting on the road today. One promise I made SWMBO is that our tandem would be a modern mainstream bike we could ride away today, and could be serviced with parts we can buy at retail, not a project of oddball sizes and extinct tech.

mtnbke

Wheel is a 622 Chuckker 48h. I'd like to get the Marathon Plus 700x35 tire, but the problem with the Marathon Plus is the actual ISO size of the tire is actually "bigger" than its size. 700x45s are actually rated 622-47, 700x35s are actually 700x37. I thought I had bought an almost new pair of 700x35 Marathon Plus tires the other night, but they are 700x45s. Sadly I can't even fit it on the front.

I don't think 65psi would come close to being enough pressure for the rear tire, even with a wide 35. We're a very heavy team.

mtnbke

You sound like my wife. For years she's been asking me why I'll stay up looking at old vintage components and scouring for really rare pieces for builds that might never be completed. She always asks, "why don't you just get one bike that works and concentrate on the vintage stuff later." I do have bicycles that are built and incredible, but I don't think she gets part of if. However, you're both right.

Getting a tire for this rear wheel isn't extinct tech. We didn't go with 630/27" because we needed the strongest rim we could get without going with a Velocity Psycho. 700x35 isn't a difficult tire size to source and is completely mainstream. I do think I'll go with the Marathon Plus. It makes sense for our weight. I hope the 35 fits, if not it will be a 32. The Marathon Plus tires are ISO rated wider than their "size."

and yes, I need to ride a mile for every post I make. I spend a lot more time thinking about bikes thank actually riding them these days. When my wife makes that point I always say, "let's go for a ride." That's a whole 'nother issue and we're trying to work through it. I can't live this way anymore. I've only been married once, but between my wife and my ex, I haven't had a supportive cycling partner since about 1996. Something has to change or I'm going to find myself a new stoker.

ksisler

OP; Realistically I don't have the same perception of the need of a tire X having the exact width stated on the sidewall. Based on experience it rarely is and besides it is highly dependent on the specifics of the wheel it is mounted on. I would be please with a accuracy of +/- 2mm.

So basically you have what I would call a "racing bike" being one that only accepts skinny tires.

Re; the 65PSI. My current Santana Rio has 26x1-3/4" Schwalbees at 65PSI. I weight 260 and stroker is 160. The tires hardly even flatten out on the bottom. I would think that the inflator hose would pop before these tires would pop as they are extremely overbuilt... So wouldn't hesitate to recommend running even 90PSI if needed to float combined weight. I have put them on Quads successfully. BTW; these tires are rather tall for their size..uncommonly so. This gives them a lot more capacity than some lower profile tires.

Hope that helps
/K

mtnbke

Well I wouldn't call a bike that fits 700-35 (622-35) tires a bike that only fits skinnies, but to each their own.

Sold off the 700x45 Marathon Plus tires on Craigslist. Someone got a deal, two for $40. Thoughts on the Marathon vs Marathon Plus?