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Old 09-08-15, 10:24 AM   #1
Eddie50
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Front crank/derailleur compatibility issue (ultegra) help!

I have a problem with a used tandem I just purchased, I can't make it shift in the big ring, no matter how much tweaking I do.

Information: Bike: its a 2006 Trek T2000,before I purchased the bike, it has been converted from 9 to 10 speed.
From what I can tell and the part numbers, it seems that I have a compatibility issues with older 9 speed crank and 10 speed derailleur.
Fron Derailleur is a FD-6603
Crank is a FC-6503

Could it be that the 10 speed chain is just not made to shift with the older 9 speed crank? no narrow chain will not catch the gates and pins?

What are my options to make it work? Do I have to change the whole crank and put a 10 speed crank? I am at a loss here

Thank you for your help!
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Old 09-08-15, 12:34 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie50 View Post
I have a problem with a used tandem I just purchased, I can't make it shift in the big ring, no matter how much tweaking I do.

Information: Bike: its a 2006 Trek T2000,before I purchased the bike, it has been converted from 9 to 10 speed.
From what I can tell and the part numbers, it seems that I have a compatibility issues with older 9 speed crank and 10 speed derailleur.
Fron Derailleur is a FD-6603
Crank is a FC-6503

Could it be that the 10 speed chain is just not made to shift with the older 9 speed crank? no narrow chain will not catch the gates and pins?

What are my options to make it work? Do I have to change the whole crank and put a 10 speed crank? I am at a loss here

Thank you for your help!
You say it will not shift in the big ring. What exactly does it do when you attempt to shift from the middle ring to the big ring?
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Old 09-08-15, 01:08 PM   #3
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The FD is desgined for a 30-39-52 crankset, but you have a 30-42-52 crankset. It's therefore possible that the height of the FD is not correct - if set so that the outer cage is 1-2 mm above the big ring, then the inner cage will catch on the middle chainring and not be able to move out far enough to shift the chain onto the large ring. A 5603 FD (designed for 30-39-50) would work better with that crank than a 6603 FD. If that is not the problem, then you'll need to provide more details about what you have and haven't tried.
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Old 09-08-15, 01:38 PM   #4
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Dumb question: could this be as simple as the high limit screw adjustment?
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Old 09-08-15, 02:55 PM   #5
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I suspect Chris has it. Shifters designed for 5*/39/30 cranks do not play well with 42T mid rings. The 39T mid ring is enough smaller that the FD has a deeper vertical
height on the inside of the FD cage than those for 42T midrings, and this deeper face hits the 42t ring. A friend, who likes 42 and 44t mid rings just dremeled off
about 6-8mm of sheet metal off the inside of his 39T midring FD and made it work on the 44T he used. You have 3 options: mod the FD cage, get a 39T midring or
get a newer FD. The 9/10 spd chain doesn't really care, nor does the width of the FD cage only the vertical depth of the inside of the FD cage

Not suggesting any of these but compare the inside of the cages of the FD on this page for an idea of what Chris refers to:
http://bike.shimano.com/content/sac-...eraileurs.html

Last edited by sch; 09-08-15 at 03:00 PM.
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Old 09-08-15, 04:00 PM   #6
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I think it may be the problem, when shifting in the big ring, it rubs and I think it rubs on the middle ring as described, hard to tell since I am visually impared.

The lever just does not clicks and stop moving when trying to push it hard.

Limit screw: I tried that but its not the issue

The thing is the big ring is a A53 SG and from what I have read its only compatible with a 42t middle ring, so it will not work with a 39t.

Could I keep the FD 6603, change the middle and big ring? put a 39t and a 52t? if so, what band/model would work the best? what do I have to look at when hoosing chainrings?

Thank you
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Old 09-08-15, 07:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie50 View Post
I think it may be the problem, when shifting in the big ring, it rubs and I think it rubs on the middle ring as described, hard to tell since I am visually impared.

The lever just does not clicks and stop moving when trying to push it hard.

Limit screw: I tried that but its not the issue

The thing is the big ring is a A53 SG and from what I have read its only compatible with a 42t middle ring, so it will not work with a 39t.

Could I keep the FD 6603, change the middle and big ring? put a 39t and a 52t? if so, what band/model would work the best? what do I have to look at when hoosing chainrings?

Thank you

Make sure your left shifter is a triple and not a double. Undo the cable from the derailleur and check if you can get 2 clicks in either direction.

Check to see if you have any spacers at your bottom bracket and/or crank on the right side. Removing one may also solve your problem.

CJ
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Old 09-09-15, 07:09 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by chojn1 View Post
Make sure your left shifter is a triple and not a double. Undo the cable from the derailleur and check if you can get 2 clicks in either direction.

Check to see if you have any spacers at your bottom bracket and/or crank on the right side. Removing one may also solve your problem.

CJ
Thanks, I did that, its a triple, and removed the crank and no spacers.

I will try to move the derailleur higher to see if its the issue and if it clears the middle ring.
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Old 09-09-15, 10:31 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie50 View Post
I think it may be the problem, when shifting in the big ring, it rubs and I think it rubs on the middle ring as described, hard to tell since I am visually impared.
........

Could I keep the FD 6603, change the middle and big ring? put a 39t and a 52t? if so, what band/model would work the best? what do I have to look at when hoosing chainrings?.....
It is MUCH less expensive to change the FD than even one chain ring.

Besides, on a tandem, a 42T or 44T middle ring is very desireable.
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Old 09-09-15, 12:01 PM   #10
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If you end up needing to go with a new derailleur you should look at a Shimano CX-70. Although it is marketed as a "ultegra quality" double, it has the range to handle three chainrings and it will certainly clear a 42T or 44T middle ring. Here's a discussion by Jan Heine where he recommends that derailleur for his Rene Herse triples: https://janheine.wordpress.com/2013/...h-sti-triples/
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Old 09-09-15, 01:29 PM   #11
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If you end up needing to go with a new derailleur you should look at a Shimano CX-70. Although it is marketed as a "ultegra quality" double, it has the range to handle three chainrings and it will certainly clear a 42T or 44T middle ring. Here's a discussion by Jan Heine where he recommends that derailleur for his Rene Herse triples: https://janheine.wordpress.com/2013/...h-sti-triples/
Is that my only choice for a FD? any derailleurs made to work well with 42t middle? dura ace, ultegra?

How can I tell if it will work better?

Thanks
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Old 09-09-15, 02:42 PM   #12
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As I said in my first post, the Shimano 105 5603 front derailleur should work well with that crank. It is the difference between the big and middle rings that is important, not the absolute size, and so the 5603, being designed for 10-speed 30-39-50 (11-tooth difference) should work fine with a 30-42-52 (10-tooth difference). Keep the chainrings and change the derailleur!
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Old 09-09-15, 02:50 PM   #13
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As I said in my first post, the Shimano 105 5603 front derailleur should work well with that crank. It is the difference between the big and middle rings that is important, not the absolute size, and so the 5603, being designed for 10-speed 30-39-50 (11-tooth difference) should work fine with a 30-42-52 (10-tooth difference). Keep the chainrings and change the derailleur!
ok, I am just trying to understand if the stock 9 speed ultegra from the 2006 stock T2000 would have worked, since it originally came with the 30/42/52 setup.
I also have a shimano FD-R453 lying around, could this work?

I am figuring out what they did when they rebuild the tandem as I am learning how to fix it!

Thanks
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Old 09-09-15, 04:25 PM   #14
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I have a 2005 T2000 that came stock with ultegra 9 speed and 30/42/53 rings. It shifts very nicely and the dérailleur cage would not come close to hitting the 42 ring even though I have the dérailleur lowered to the point that it just barely clears the big ring. I have had to now switch the middle ring to39 teeth as the Shimano 42T is no longer available. Shifting still works fine albeit a tad slower from middle to big ring than it was with the 42, as you would expect.

I'm baffled by your problem, as it sounds like you have a stock setup that for me worked wonderfully.
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Old 09-09-15, 05:14 PM   #15
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I have a 2005 T2000 that came stock with ultegra 9 speed and 30/42/53 rings. It shifts very nicely and the dérailleur cage would not come close to hitting the 42 ring even though I have the dérailleur lowered to the point that it just barely clears the big ring. I have had to now switch the middle ring to39 teeth as the Shimano 42T is no longer available. Shifting still works fine albeit a tad slower from middle to big ring than it was with the 42, as you would expect.

I'm baffled by your problem, as it sounds like you have a stock setup that for me worked wonderfully.
Well, from all the parts I have identified, the crank is stock (ultegra 30/42/53 but all of the rest of the drivetrain was converted to 10 speed, is the front derailleur on your tandem a FD-6603? because that is what is on mine, along with 10 speed cassette, 10 speed shifters and RD.
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Old 09-09-15, 05:38 PM   #16
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Well you inspired me to get out my magnifying glass and now I see that my FD is 6503, and the 6603 must have a much deeper cage. So Chris and others must have it correct about the incompatibility of the FD and the ring sizes.
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Old 09-10-15, 01:22 AM   #17
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If you have the 6503 FD available, then that should work fine, it's just a hair wider than the 5603 due to being designed for a 9-speed chain instead of a 10-speed.
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Old 09-13-15, 02:09 PM   #18
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I just wanted to thank everyone, I have been able to solve my problem without changing parts, its not perfect but it works.

I basically adjusted the derailleur so the rear cage would clear the middle ring, just a bit higher, and now it shifts in the big ring. Its not perfect since the derailleur is too high for optimal shifts but it works.

Until I get around changing to the CX70, it will do!
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