First time riding tandem questions
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First time riding tandem questions
I just acquired a really low end kent dual drive tandem. Wife and I rode it for the first time this evening and i have a couple of questions.
1) It feels like the frame flexes ( It felt like it was wiggling)Do these have that problem?
2) Is it worth putting any money into to make if slightly better?
3) It has Shimanno Tourney shifters and does not want to go into either the smallest crank or with adjustments the largest one. I can get it to do 2 out of the 3. Is there a secret to getting it to work? Appears the front derraleur is bent. Slightly chewed up from the chain hopping over the big cog. Has revo shifters.
Don't beat me up too bad. Wife cannot ride her single bike and we wanted to try it out and see if we were going to be compatible for riding tandem. Will upgrade if this works out.
Thanks for any constructive comments.
1) It feels like the frame flexes ( It felt like it was wiggling)Do these have that problem?
2) Is it worth putting any money into to make if slightly better?
3) It has Shimanno Tourney shifters and does not want to go into either the smallest crank or with adjustments the largest one. I can get it to do 2 out of the 3. Is there a secret to getting it to work? Appears the front derraleur is bent. Slightly chewed up from the chain hopping over the big cog. Has revo shifters.
Don't beat me up too bad. Wife cannot ride her single bike and we wanted to try it out and see if we were going to be compatible for riding tandem. Will upgrade if this works out.
Thanks for any constructive comments.
#2
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1) Years ago, I bought a used Huffy tandem single-speed. My daughter and I rode it around the block. It seemed to me like the frame was flexing, ie, twisting between us. Maybe that was my imagination. Maybe not. My daughter was maybe 120 lbs, not exactly a heavyweight. That bike had a step-through frame in back, had small tubes. I would expect a tandem with bigger tubes not to do that. My current CoMotion doesn't noticeably do that, but has much larger tubes and rear is not a step-through frame. So answer is "maybe".
2) Probably not. If it seems pretty decent all around and there's just one problem, sure, fix that problem. If it seems like a problem all the way around, do something different.
3) That could be cheap crap or that could be a problem for a bike shop to work on. And they may not do much better, or may not be interested in fooling with it if it's a lost cause.
On my $100 mountain bike (single bike), I could adjust derailleurs all day, but I either had to live without high gear or without low gear on the rear, it just wouldn't reliably go the full range. On that bike, I also had crummy brakes, so between shifting issues and brake issues, I was kind of glad when it got stolen. My single-speed Worksman cruiser was an upgrade from it.
"Compatible" on the tandem means you ride at similar cadence (or you'll drive each other nuts), that you're willing to put up with the arrangement, and not a whole lot else. So most of the female cyclists I know that are around my age (54) have ridden a tandem at some point and were okay with it, even if it wasn't their preference. One that wasn't, her husband said they rode to the end of the block and she said "No way", that was all it took. My current stoker won't even consider riding a tandem with her boyfriend, he's a spinner and she's a masher, and it's pretty obvious watching them ride single bikes that it wouldn't be workable on a tandem. For me, as captain, it took about 1,000 miles before it didn't feel "weird" or "wrong", but still felt okay, if that makes sense. Anyway, if you ride it around some and you're comfortable with the idea except that the bike is crappy, go for a better bike.
Sometimes, the larger bike stores will rent tandems, you might check into that also.
2) Probably not. If it seems pretty decent all around and there's just one problem, sure, fix that problem. If it seems like a problem all the way around, do something different.
3) That could be cheap crap or that could be a problem for a bike shop to work on. And they may not do much better, or may not be interested in fooling with it if it's a lost cause.
On my $100 mountain bike (single bike), I could adjust derailleurs all day, but I either had to live without high gear or without low gear on the rear, it just wouldn't reliably go the full range. On that bike, I also had crummy brakes, so between shifting issues and brake issues, I was kind of glad when it got stolen. My single-speed Worksman cruiser was an upgrade from it.
"Compatible" on the tandem means you ride at similar cadence (or you'll drive each other nuts), that you're willing to put up with the arrangement, and not a whole lot else. So most of the female cyclists I know that are around my age (54) have ridden a tandem at some point and were okay with it, even if it wasn't their preference. One that wasn't, her husband said they rode to the end of the block and she said "No way", that was all it took. My current stoker won't even consider riding a tandem with her boyfriend, he's a spinner and she's a masher, and it's pretty obvious watching them ride single bikes that it wouldn't be workable on a tandem. For me, as captain, it took about 1,000 miles before it didn't feel "weird" or "wrong", but still felt okay, if that makes sense. Anyway, if you ride it around some and you're comfortable with the idea except that the bike is crappy, go for a better bike.
Sometimes, the larger bike stores will rent tandems, you might check into that also.
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#4
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That wiggling feeling is input from your stoker. As StephenH mentioned, you will start correcting for it and the wiggles will go away. Get enough tandem only miles and your single will feel like the rear wheel is loose
As for upgrades, I would ride it as is for as long as you two can stand then find an older but better quality tandem that may be more worth investing in. Watch some youtube vids on derailleur adjustments and you may surprise yourself with getting them dialed in.
Tandems can be major fun, we just got a second hand Raleigh that I fixed up to ride off road. We are really enjoying our Cannondale road tandem as well.
As for upgrades, I would ride it as is for as long as you two can stand then find an older but better quality tandem that may be more worth investing in. Watch some youtube vids on derailleur adjustments and you may surprise yourself with getting them dialed in.
Tandems can be major fun, we just got a second hand Raleigh that I fixed up to ride off road. We are really enjoying our Cannondale road tandem as well.
#5
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If you are going to ride it as long as you can stand it, beyond lubrication I would consider:
-new brake pads if the old ones are hard
-truing the wheels if needed
-changing saddles if needed for comfort
-shifting adjustments for reliable shifts
-Possibly a rear rack and trunk bag
-Possibly different stoker bars if your stoker is not comfortable with position due to current bars.
-A good bright blinkie
Not a huge investment and you could probably move the saddles, rack, stoker bars, and blinkie to a new bike.
Keep an open mind and focus on the fun, then when you upgrade, the fun will just get funner.
-new brake pads if the old ones are hard
-truing the wheels if needed
-changing saddles if needed for comfort
-shifting adjustments for reliable shifts
-Possibly a rear rack and trunk bag
-Possibly different stoker bars if your stoker is not comfortable with position due to current bars.
-A good bright blinkie
Not a huge investment and you could probably move the saddles, rack, stoker bars, and blinkie to a new bike.
Keep an open mind and focus on the fun, then when you upgrade, the fun will just get funner.
#6
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Well, I certainly wouldn't throw in the towel because of your experience with this bike. The mechanical stuff may or may not be easily fixed without spending money. That really doesn't matter too much in the long run. The more interesting problem is the frame flex. As others have said, this is due to stoker moving about, even if not realizing it. The first time we tried riding a tandem, my wife wasn't happy with my steering as we started off for the first time and tried a little body english to correct. We made it 20 feet and crashed. No blood. (It is said that it doesn't count if there's no blood.)
So that's the first thing to work on: getting rid of the feeling of frame flex by encouraging your stoker to sit quietly over the bike and be basically passive, except for pedaling. That means a lot of trust in you, the captain. I know I haven't always been worthy of absolute trust on the bike, but my wife is so generous that she gives it to me anyway. Just riding around the neighborhood or a nearby big parking lot is good. Practice doing turns of various radii, starting, stopping, all the various drills with no external pressures.
Being a good tandem team is basically about this transfer of trust between you. She trusts you to do right, and you trust her to keep on trusting you. We know several couples who would make great tandem teams except that there's this issue of the stoker giving up control. Totally giving it up. That's really, really hard. If you two can do that, I wouldn't worry about fixing up this bike. Just get a better one. Pretty much anything used by a major tandem builder will work, as long as it fits you both.
My wife started riding tandem with me when she could no longer ride her single on the road. Now if she's sick or something and I go out on my single, I get a really sour look! She loves it.
So that's the first thing to work on: getting rid of the feeling of frame flex by encouraging your stoker to sit quietly over the bike and be basically passive, except for pedaling. That means a lot of trust in you, the captain. I know I haven't always been worthy of absolute trust on the bike, but my wife is so generous that she gives it to me anyway. Just riding around the neighborhood or a nearby big parking lot is good. Practice doing turns of various radii, starting, stopping, all the various drills with no external pressures.
Being a good tandem team is basically about this transfer of trust between you. She trusts you to do right, and you trust her to keep on trusting you. We know several couples who would make great tandem teams except that there's this issue of the stoker giving up control. Totally giving it up. That's really, really hard. If you two can do that, I wouldn't worry about fixing up this bike. Just get a better one. Pretty much anything used by a major tandem builder will work, as long as it fits you both.
My wife started riding tandem with me when she could no longer ride her single on the road. Now if she's sick or something and I go out on my single, I get a really sour look! She loves it.
#7
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What say to my stoker when she is trying to control the bike from behind is "Don't fight the bike". As soon as I say it, she stops "fighting the bike" and things smooth out. This seems to work and it makes the behavior issue between her and the bike and not between us.
#8
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When I was shopping for a tandem for my daughter and myself three years ago, I discovered that there were a *lot* of barely used ones out there; it seems pretty common for people to buy them and then immediately turn them into garage queens after a few miles.
So if you do end up finding that you enjoy them, checks your local Craigslist/bike kitchen/etc, and you could very well find a fairly high end tandem at a very attractive price.
So if you do end up finding that you enjoy them, checks your local Craigslist/bike kitchen/etc, and you could very well find a fairly high end tandem at a very attractive price.
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Thanks for all the advice. As far as trusting , my wife is totally content to just pedal. Maybe we need to work on the "fit" a little more to keep her from shifting. I have already thought of dropping the seat just a smidgen to see if that stops the flex(wiggle).. I may have set it just a tad high and her hips are rocking. She did enjoy the first ride as all she had to do was pedal. We have to work on the communication a bit as anytime I changed the cadence or shifted, it startled her. Going to work on that.
Going to give it a fair shot at becoming comfortable for me. I ride a road bike and it sure is different!!
Another coule of questions. The tires are fully inflated at 45 psi. I know on my pickup there was sway from the tires. Do tandems have this happen also? That might be a contributing factor to the "wiggle".
On the cranks are the bearing a cassette style or loose like in the wheels? I lubricated the wheel bearings and there was almost no grease, so I am guessing the cranks are the same shape. Watched a video on how to lubricate. His had the cassette style bearings.
Guess I am going to have to learn to be a bike mechanic whether I want to or not. lol
It looks like I am going to have to replace the front deralliur (spelling) It is definitely bent and spent quite a bit of time adjusting on it today. Can get it to work on the 2 largest cogs up front, but will not go onto the bottom one consistently.
Going to give it a fair shot at becoming comfortable for me. I ride a road bike and it sure is different!!
Another coule of questions. The tires are fully inflated at 45 psi. I know on my pickup there was sway from the tires. Do tandems have this happen also? That might be a contributing factor to the "wiggle".
On the cranks are the bearing a cassette style or loose like in the wheels? I lubricated the wheel bearings and there was almost no grease, so I am guessing the cranks are the same shape. Watched a video on how to lubricate. His had the cassette style bearings.
Guess I am going to have to learn to be a bike mechanic whether I want to or not. lol
It looks like I am going to have to replace the front deralliur (spelling) It is definitely bent and spent quite a bit of time adjusting on it today. Can get it to work on the 2 largest cogs up front, but will not go onto the bottom one consistently.
#10
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Hey baldy,
I understand that you are not a mechanic, but consider straightening the front derailluer box and then align to the best of your ability. I have straightened at least a half dozen and gotten them to work well. It doesn't take much abuse to bend them. YouTube may have some examples, but you should use some pliers with cloth over the part that touches the derailleur and straighten to the best of your ability.
I understand that you are not a mechanic, but consider straightening the front derailluer box and then align to the best of your ability. I have straightened at least a half dozen and gotten them to work well. It doesn't take much abuse to bend them. YouTube may have some examples, but you should use some pliers with cloth over the part that touches the derailleur and straighten to the best of your ability.
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Proper fit and communication are the key to tandeming TWOgether.
Been doing that for 40+ years and still lovin' it!
Been doing that for 40+ years and still lovin' it!
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I will give it a try to straighten it out some. The previous owner apparently had the chain jump an it chewed the metal up some, so not sure how successful will be. If that does not work, will spend a bit and get a new front one. It is so bent up, do not think I will need the cloth,but thanks for the suggestion.
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You've gotten good advice on pretty much everything. I will add that I have a Pacific Dually that I got new and trued the wheels, put on a rack and added a longer stem and seat post. I also have a DaVinci Joint Venture that is a really great bike. The Pacific is kind of our preference for casual rides. It's heavy and a little sluggish in turns but the weight and geometry make it pretty stable. I wouldn't spend a lot of money on your Kent except whatever it takes to get the front derailleur to shift right. It sounds like you will be enjoying tandeming and that means you will have to upgrade. You may or not keep the Kent but you will get more fun for your dollar on a better tandem.
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We are on our second Kent Dual-Drive. Both were bought new. We gave the first one away when we moved from NYC to Portland, OR. We had only had it a year. We bought the second as soon as we arrived in PDX. Its going on its seventh year. We pull a sometimes heavily loaded trailer with the Kent and I can definitely feel the frame flex when my stoker (150lb) and the trailer (~100lb) are there. Sudden movement of my stoker or her pedaling do not feel like "flex" to me. I can tell the difference. I don't think a stoker alone creates much flex in a Kent but to be fair a Kent is far from the stiffest tandem out there. I was never able to get the front derailleur on our second Kent to cover all three rings. Rather than replace the derailleur I replaced the bottom bracket with a shorter one. Problem solved. Sadly, I had replaced the index (grip) shifters (with Suntour friction shifters) in an earlier attempt. In hindsight they were probably fine. The bottom brackets are definitely not cassette type sealed BB's and IMO are a worthy upgrade for anyone planning to live long term with one of these bikes. A 'chewed' up FD should definitely be replaced, and they are dead cheap these days. Stock seats are horrible, and the stock seatposts are steel. They will rust. Aluminum ones are available but in 25.4mm they are very fragile unless made of 6060 alloy. So.......
Kent Tandem drop shipped unassembled -- $250. Two sealed BB - $50 . Two Bontrager CRZ Sport saddles $50 (no longer made) One 6061 seatpost (capt) $22 One aluminum seatpost $14. You must be able to work on the bike yourself. If an LBS swaps the BB's, their labor charges are going to kill you. Well maybe not, but all that labor will certainly bring the price of a Kent up to what something like an Electra tandem or Trek tandem is going to cost and that wouldn't be worth it.
After two years we (I) damaged the rims and bought new wheels - $80/pr. We also bought Schwalbe Big Apples in 2.0" $80.
We have a much nicer tandem ($2K) for club riding that gets out less than 10x/yr. We didn't ride it at all this year. The Kent gets used every single day. Since my wife is blind and we are car free it is the commuter/utility and all around town car. I ride it solo almost as much as two up. Even with all the upgrades the Kent is far cheaper than anything being sold on Craigslist. There are other ultra-cheap dept. store tandems but none are better than the Kent and IMO the Kent is hands down better looking than anything else in its price class. In fact, it gets more admiring comments from the general public than the much nicer one that we use in the summer.
Kent Tandem drop shipped unassembled -- $250. Two sealed BB - $50 . Two Bontrager CRZ Sport saddles $50 (no longer made) One 6061 seatpost (capt) $22 One aluminum seatpost $14. You must be able to work on the bike yourself. If an LBS swaps the BB's, their labor charges are going to kill you. Well maybe not, but all that labor will certainly bring the price of a Kent up to what something like an Electra tandem or Trek tandem is going to cost and that wouldn't be worth it.
After two years we (I) damaged the rims and bought new wheels - $80/pr. We also bought Schwalbe Big Apples in 2.0" $80.
We have a much nicer tandem ($2K) for club riding that gets out less than 10x/yr. We didn't ride it at all this year. The Kent gets used every single day. Since my wife is blind and we are car free it is the commuter/utility and all around town car. I ride it solo almost as much as two up. Even with all the upgrades the Kent is far cheaper than anything being sold on Craigslist. There are other ultra-cheap dept. store tandems but none are better than the Kent and IMO the Kent is hands down better looking than anything else in its price class. In fact, it gets more admiring comments from the general public than the much nicer one that we use in the summer.
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Thanks for the specific advice on the Kent. Not may people want to acknowledge they ride or have ridden one of those. lol I sent you a private message concerning the Kent. Did not want to clog up the forum with newbie questions.
#16
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Thanks for all the advice. As far as trusting , my wife is totally content to just pedal. Maybe we need to work on the "fit" a little more to keep her from shifting. I have already thought of dropping the seat just a smidgen to see if that stops the flex(wiggle).. I may have set it just a tad high and her hips are rocking. She did enjoy the first ride as all she had to do was pedal. We have to work on the communication a bit as anytime I changed the cadence or shifted, it startled her. Going to work on that.
Going to give it a fair shot at becoming comfortable for me. I ride a road bike and it sure is different!!
Another coule of questions. The tires are fully inflated at 45 psi. I know on my pickup there was sway from the tires. Do tandems have this happen also? That might be a contributing factor to the "wiggle".
On the cranks are the bearing a cassette style or loose like in the wheels? I lubricated the wheel bearings and there was almost no grease, so I am guessing the cranks are the same shape. Watched a video on how to lubricate. His had the cassette style bearings.
Guess I am going to have to learn to be a bike mechanic whether I want to or not. lol
It looks like I am going to have to replace the front deralliur (spelling) It is definitely bent and spent quite a bit of time adjusting on it today. Can get it to work on the 2 largest cogs up front, but will not go onto the bottom one consistently.
Going to give it a fair shot at becoming comfortable for me. I ride a road bike and it sure is different!!
Another coule of questions. The tires are fully inflated at 45 psi. I know on my pickup there was sway from the tires. Do tandems have this happen also? That might be a contributing factor to the "wiggle".
On the cranks are the bearing a cassette style or loose like in the wheels? I lubricated the wheel bearings and there was almost no grease, so I am guessing the cranks are the same shape. Watched a video on how to lubricate. His had the cassette style bearings.
Guess I am going to have to learn to be a bike mechanic whether I want to or not. lol
It looks like I am going to have to replace the front deralliur (spelling) It is definitely bent and spent quite a bit of time adjusting on it today. Can get it to work on the 2 largest cogs up front, but will not go onto the bottom one consistently.
The Park tool web site will give instructions for working on many parts on the bike.
Repair Help Articles - Park Tool
#17
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Leisesturm. I rec. your private message. However, the forum will not allow me to respond as I have not made the required posts to do so. I apologize to the rest of the users for my newby questions concerning the Kent. I am asking for the knowledge to fix the bike and make it more roadworthy and better without spending a fortune.
Thanks for responding. I could not find the message i sent to you either. It shows in my graph that I have sent one private message, but I am unable to get to it.
My questions concerned the bracket bearings you said you bought. How do you measure the size that is needed? I am guessing the bottom braket is the crank assembly. There are 2 of them.(front and rear) Also on the rear axle, I was able to remove the side opposite of the cluster ( think that is what it is called). There was virtually no grease in that side. Loose ball bearings and I greased them and put back together. Do I need the special socket to remove the cluster and disassemble the other side to grease or will I be able to slide the axle out without disturbing the bearings?
I appreciate your help and information. The tandem and doing bicycle maintenance if a new adventure for me. I have never really worked on a bike before. My Jamis road bike (bought new) has not required any maint. other than cleaning chain. I had the chain replaced by lbs as the original did not have a master link.
waynesulak,
I agree it will save me quite a bit of money to learn how to work on the bike. Being newly retired, I am unsure of my financial situation until I get a few Social Security checks in the bank. So, I have plenty of time to learn how to work on bikes. Have a single road bike to maintain also. It being new requires less diligence than the Kent.
If the bike breaks down, i just walk home with the bike. Has happened already. Only had to walk about 5 miles. Flat tire and my tube I put in went flat also. Got tired of pumping up to ride for about 10 min before going flat again. Had a tiny piece of metal. Bought 2 new tubes and tires. Had worn the original tires out. Live and learn. Thanks for all the help
Thanks for responding. I could not find the message i sent to you either. It shows in my graph that I have sent one private message, but I am unable to get to it.
My questions concerned the bracket bearings you said you bought. How do you measure the size that is needed? I am guessing the bottom braket is the crank assembly. There are 2 of them.(front and rear) Also on the rear axle, I was able to remove the side opposite of the cluster ( think that is what it is called). There was virtually no grease in that side. Loose ball bearings and I greased them and put back together. Do I need the special socket to remove the cluster and disassemble the other side to grease or will I be able to slide the axle out without disturbing the bearings?
I appreciate your help and information. The tandem and doing bicycle maintenance if a new adventure for me. I have never really worked on a bike before. My Jamis road bike (bought new) has not required any maint. other than cleaning chain. I had the chain replaced by lbs as the original did not have a master link.
waynesulak,
I agree it will save me quite a bit of money to learn how to work on the bike. Being newly retired, I am unsure of my financial situation until I get a few Social Security checks in the bank. So, I have plenty of time to learn how to work on bikes. Have a single road bike to maintain also. It being new requires less diligence than the Kent.
If the bike breaks down, i just walk home with the bike. Has happened already. Only had to walk about 5 miles. Flat tire and my tube I put in went flat also. Got tired of pumping up to ride for about 10 min before going flat again. Had a tiny piece of metal. Bought 2 new tubes and tires. Had worn the original tires out. Live and learn. Thanks for all the help
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