Newbie needs advice
#1
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Newbie needs advice
Hello,
Just a quick background info on us, my wife doesn't know how to ride a bike, and the last time I rode one was 30+ years ago. We would like to try tandem biking leisurely on paved roads around lakes and San Diego coastal bike routes.
I am interested in two used tandem bikes. First is a KHS with gears (idk ???) for $200. However, it needs new set of tires from sitting around. Second is a lightly used Pacific Cycles (Walmart). It comes with an extra set of knobby tires for $250. With the KHS, I may need to bring it in for a checkup and new tires put on. With the Pacific, I may be able to ride right away.
I'm seeking advice on what to look for buying used bikes. Also, any advice on tandem biking for newbies. Thanks in advance for your help.
Just a quick background info on us, my wife doesn't know how to ride a bike, and the last time I rode one was 30+ years ago. We would like to try tandem biking leisurely on paved roads around lakes and San Diego coastal bike routes.
I am interested in two used tandem bikes. First is a KHS with gears (idk ???) for $200. However, it needs new set of tires from sitting around. Second is a lightly used Pacific Cycles (Walmart). It comes with an extra set of knobby tires for $250. With the KHS, I may need to bring it in for a checkup and new tires put on. With the Pacific, I may be able to ride right away.
I'm seeking advice on what to look for buying used bikes. Also, any advice on tandem biking for newbies. Thanks in advance for your help.
#2
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Hi,
We live in San Diego too (Encinitas)
Pictures would help, but from your description I would go with KHS but make the frame size fits both of you.
We live in San Diego too (Encinitas)
Pictures would help, but from your description I would go with KHS but make the frame size fits both of you.
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The KHS may need more than just tires and $200 can easily become $300 or more when mechanics and their labor charges are involved. On Amazon, the Pacific Coast tandems cost $250 new! Free shipping. Some assembly required. But you won't have to find a place for an extra set of tires you will never use. Just saying. No slight to the previous poster, but I think the Pacific (Kent) through Walmart or Amazon is the way you should go. Why? Because although perhaps down-market from the KHS, the Kent is new. That counts for something. Index shifting etc. have come a long way in just a few years and we have no idea how old the KHS is. Also the handling of the Kent is very benign. By your own admission you haven't logged much flight time lately. You might actually want to ride whichever tandem you get as a solo pilot several times before you put the tender flesh of your beloved in the cockpit with you. FWIW.
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I would like to thank you jnbrown, leisesturm, and others (PM) for your advices. For an update, I didn't get the KHS because it was not in riding condition. The Pacific had almost the same price as a brand new on Amazon. Thus, I didn't get neither.
After another week of searching, I bought a tandem Trek Double Cross for $220. It was kept in a pristine condition. However, it's missing all water bottle holders and a kickstand. In addition, the front gear shifter only works for the middle and smallest rings. It has a total of three rings. Since I'll be riding leisurely on paved bike routes, it may be ok with middle ring for now. Hopefully, it will not cost a lot to fix later on.
After another week of searching, I bought a tandem Trek Double Cross for $220. It was kept in a pristine condition. However, it's missing all water bottle holders and a kickstand. In addition, the front gear shifter only works for the middle and smallest rings. It has a total of three rings. Since I'll be riding leisurely on paved bike routes, it may be ok with middle ring for now. Hopefully, it will not cost a lot to fix later on.
Last edited by hcgaloi; 08-07-16 at 09:10 AM.
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Gald you skipped the Walmart tandem . . .
Have worked on many tandems and had a Walmart /Kent (brand new) that had absolutely NO grease anywhere on any bearings; brakes/gears not adjusted at all, etc.
Fixing the Double Cross gearing is usually a matter of re-setting adjustment screws. Kickstand is not a necessity (lean it against a fence/tree/wall or lay it down). Bottle cages are cheap.
Enjoy the ride TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem
Have worked on many tandems and had a Walmart /Kent (brand new) that had absolutely NO grease anywhere on any bearings; brakes/gears not adjusted at all, etc.
Fixing the Double Cross gearing is usually a matter of re-setting adjustment screws. Kickstand is not a necessity (lean it against a fence/tree/wall or lay it down). Bottle cages are cheap.
Enjoy the ride TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem
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Hello everyone
My wife and I have done three tandem rides around Miramar lake in San Diego, and we both enjoyed it very much. However, I have a question about stop and stand.
Here is the situation, when I (captain) stand with both feet flat on the ground and slightly apart to avoid pedals hitting the legs, the top tube is about a quarter inch to touching my crotch. Needless to say, it's very uncomfortable and intimidating to a male. So, to avoid hitting my crotch, when stopping I would have my right foot stretched out on the pedal, left foot flatted on the ground, and the bike slightly tilled to the left.
I assume stopping like that would be fine if I were on a single. However, on a tandem with my wife on the back, it doesn't work very well. Because she doesn't know how to ride a bike, I have instructed her to remain seated with both feet on the pedals and hands on the bar until I have come to a full stand. The problem is right at the moment when I try to lean the bike to land left foot on the ground, due to fear of falling, she instinctively tries to fight back which makes it awkward and wobbly. We have tried to practice this technique several times but don't achieve any improvement.
If you have any advice or technique for us to try, please, let us know. And, thanks in advance for helping the newbies.
My wife and I have done three tandem rides around Miramar lake in San Diego, and we both enjoyed it very much. However, I have a question about stop and stand.
Here is the situation, when I (captain) stand with both feet flat on the ground and slightly apart to avoid pedals hitting the legs, the top tube is about a quarter inch to touching my crotch. Needless to say, it's very uncomfortable and intimidating to a male. So, to avoid hitting my crotch, when stopping I would have my right foot stretched out on the pedal, left foot flatted on the ground, and the bike slightly tilled to the left.
I assume stopping like that would be fine if I were on a single. However, on a tandem with my wife on the back, it doesn't work very well. Because she doesn't know how to ride a bike, I have instructed her to remain seated with both feet on the pedals and hands on the bar until I have come to a full stand. The problem is right at the moment when I try to lean the bike to land left foot on the ground, due to fear of falling, she instinctively tries to fight back which makes it awkward and wobbly. We have tried to practice this technique several times but don't achieve any improvement.
If you have any advice or technique for us to try, please, let us know. And, thanks in advance for helping the newbies.
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Hello everyone
My wife and I have done three tandem rides around Miramar lake in San Diego, and we both enjoyed it very much. However, I have a question about stop and stand.
Here is the situation, when I (captain) stand with both feet flat on the ground and slightly apart to avoid pedals hitting the legs, the top tube is about a quarter inch to touching my crotch. Needless to say, it's very uncomfortable and intimidating to a male. So, to avoid hitting my crotch, when stopping I would have my right foot stretched out on the pedal, left foot flatted on the ground, and the bike slightly tilled to the left.
I assume stopping like that would be fine if I were on a single. However, on a tandem with my wife on the back, it doesn't work very well. Because she doesn't know how to ride a bike, I have instructed her to remain seated with both feet on the pedals and hands on the bar until I have come to a full stand. The problem is right at the moment when I try to lean the bike to land left foot on the ground, due to fear of falling, she instinctively tries to fight back which makes it awkward and wobbly. We have tried to practice this technique several times but don't achieve any improvement.
If you have any advice or technique for us to try, please, let us know. And, thanks in advance for helping the newbies.
My wife and I have done three tandem rides around Miramar lake in San Diego, and we both enjoyed it very much. However, I have a question about stop and stand.
Here is the situation, when I (captain) stand with both feet flat on the ground and slightly apart to avoid pedals hitting the legs, the top tube is about a quarter inch to touching my crotch. Needless to say, it's very uncomfortable and intimidating to a male. So, to avoid hitting my crotch, when stopping I would have my right foot stretched out on the pedal, left foot flatted on the ground, and the bike slightly tilled to the left.
I assume stopping like that would be fine if I were on a single. However, on a tandem with my wife on the back, it doesn't work very well. Because she doesn't know how to ride a bike, I have instructed her to remain seated with both feet on the pedals and hands on the bar until I have come to a full stand. The problem is right at the moment when I try to lean the bike to land left foot on the ground, due to fear of falling, she instinctively tries to fight back which makes it awkward and wobbly. We have tried to practice this technique several times but don't achieve any improvement.
If you have any advice or technique for us to try, please, let us know. And, thanks in advance for helping the newbies.
#8
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Re-read Bill McCready's treatise: The Proper Method
You got a GREAT deal on your Trek T200. You will find a few others here with Trek T50/100/200 tandems.
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Wow I wish we could get T100s for a couple of Jolly Green Giants and a Lobster!
Yeah get the body weight down on that top-tube thru the inside top of your thigh. Allows you to free up a hand (or two) and keeps the bike nice and tall so the stoker does not have to remove their feet from the pedals. That way the stoker can give the bike a push to get it rolling while you get up into the saddle and find your pedal/s.
Youtube how to adjust the front derailleur so that you can get the big ring, it's just a bit of a fiddle for a few minutes.
Enjoy the ride!
Yeah get the body weight down on that top-tube thru the inside top of your thigh. Allows you to free up a hand (or two) and keeps the bike nice and tall so the stoker does not have to remove their feet from the pedals. That way the stoker can give the bike a push to get it rolling while you get up into the saddle and find your pedal/s.
Youtube how to adjust the front derailleur so that you can get the big ring, it's just a bit of a fiddle for a few minutes.
Enjoy the ride!
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FWIW, i weight up on the top tube with my thigh/hamstring and hip, and push my lower back into the seat nose. This is recent for me (a relatively newbie) and it is much more stable than standing up and just trying to steady with arms/shoulders using the bars. Didn't get it until I retread the entire The Proper Method (it's discussed in the lower part of the document).
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You could go to jail for getting a functional name-brand tandem for $220!!
If your stoker has never ridden at all, then there are no single-bike bad habits for her to discard. That is a good thing.
If your stoker has never ridden at all, then there are no single-bike bad habits for her to discard. That is a good thing.
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Bacchetta Giro A20, RANS V-Rex, RANS Screamer
Bacchetta Giro A20, RANS V-Rex, RANS Screamer
#12
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WOW...WOW... THANK YOU and THANK YOU!!!
I read the Proper Method and watched a YouTube video. I had to admit that I thought it was crazy to press on top tube with your crotch. However, I tried it over the weekend, and it worked marvelously. My wife could sit on the back, twisting and turning to take selfies, and the bike was rock solid. In addition, we don't have a problem with stopping anymore. Our rides have been joyful with the "Proper Method"
JanMM, on Saturday I saw a lady put away leftover from a garage sale. She had a Co-Motion single bike in excellent condition, and everything was working as far as I could tell. She wanted $20 for it. I didn't have my truck, so I told her I would come back. By the time I got home, I was too tired to make another trip. Anyway, I'm sure there are many good deals in used bike markets, and we just need to look.. 8-))
Thanks again everyone
I read the Proper Method and watched a YouTube video. I had to admit that I thought it was crazy to press on top tube with your crotch. However, I tried it over the weekend, and it worked marvelously. My wife could sit on the back, twisting and turning to take selfies, and the bike was rock solid. In addition, we don't have a problem with stopping anymore. Our rides have been joyful with the "Proper Method"
JanMM, on Saturday I saw a lady put away leftover from a garage sale. She had a Co-Motion single bike in excellent condition, and everything was working as far as I could tell. She wanted $20 for it. I didn't have my truck, so I told her I would come back. By the time I got home, I was too tired to make another trip. Anyway, I'm sure there are many good deals in used bike markets, and we just need to look.. 8-))
Thanks again everyone
#13
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Hello everyone,
Since purchasing our used Trek T100, we have lots of fun riding it. I want to make our rides more joyful, so I have been thinking of upgrading parts. Because the bike is old, I don't want to spend a lot of money on it. Thus, I have been searching used bike markets, hopefully, I can find a few with good parts that I can use.
Anyway, I found a Marin MuirWoods mountain bike for $30. From talking with the seller, it has been in storage for a few years and needs new tires. He also recommended to have a tune up before riding. However, I'm not concerned about riding condition. I'm only interested in which parts that I can swap with my tandem. If you have any suggestion, please, let me know. I greatly appreciate your help.
I just found a Scott S30 single bike for $250. I haven't seen it yet, but according to the seller, it was a mid-range bike and has many newer parts that I can swap. I'm still hesitated about the price because it cost even more than the T100.
Note: I'm having trouble uploading picture. I will do it as soon as I can.
Since purchasing our used Trek T100, we have lots of fun riding it. I want to make our rides more joyful, so I have been thinking of upgrading parts. Because the bike is old, I don't want to spend a lot of money on it. Thus, I have been searching used bike markets, hopefully, I can find a few with good parts that I can use.
Anyway, I found a Marin MuirWoods mountain bike for $30. From talking with the seller, it has been in storage for a few years and needs new tires. He also recommended to have a tune up before riding. However, I'm not concerned about riding condition. I'm only interested in which parts that I can swap with my tandem. If you have any suggestion, please, let me know. I greatly appreciate your help.
I just found a Scott S30 single bike for $250. I haven't seen it yet, but according to the seller, it was a mid-range bike and has many newer parts that I can swap. I'm still hesitated about the price because it cost even more than the T100.
Note: I'm having trouble uploading picture. I will do it as soon as I can.
Last edited by hcgaloi; 08-29-16 at 03:37 PM. Reason: Added info on Scott S30
#14
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......Anyway, I found a Marin MuirWoods mountain bike for $30. From talking with the seller, it has been in storage for a few years and needs new tires. He also recommended to have a tune up before riding. However, I'm not concerned about riding condition. I'm only interested in which parts that I can swap with my tandem. .......
Your T100 has FAR better parts than that.
Get:
* Koolstop Salmon brake pads.
* stainless steel cables and lined compressionless housings. Compressionless housings will improve brake feel and performance.
* tires and tubes.
* Properly lubricate headset, wheel bearings, BBs, pedals.
#15
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Thanks, nfmisso. I have an appointment to bring my T100 to a local Trek store for an Annual Overhaul service. I'll ask the technician to use the parts you have suggested
For tires, I'm thinking of a mid-level tubeless Hutchinson readily available at Trek store. When I was there, I think the price was around $110. But I can't remember if it was a set or a single. I'll have to check at the appointment time
Thanks again
For tires, I'm thinking of a mid-level tubeless Hutchinson readily available at Trek store. When I was there, I think the price was around $110. But I can't remember if it was a set or a single. I'll have to check at the appointment time
Thanks again
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Thanks, nfmisso. I have an appointment to bring my T100 to a local Trek store for an Annual Overhaul service. I'll ask the technician to use the parts you have suggested
For tires, I'm thinking of a mid-level tubeless Hutchinson readily available at Trek store. When I was there, I think the price was around $110. But I can't remember if it was a set or a single. I'll have to check at the appointment time
Thanks again
For tires, I'm thinking of a mid-level tubeless Hutchinson readily available at Trek store. When I was there, I think the price was around $110. But I can't remember if it was a set or a single. I'll have to check at the appointment time
Thanks again
#17
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The T50/100/200 has the capacity for up to about 40mm wide tires. We're currently running Schwalbe Marathon 38-622 tires. They have excellent durability and puncture resistance. Previously we has Kenda Kwest K193 28 x 1 5/8 x 1 3/8 (taller and narrower) which were much more lively and smoother riding. The K193 has a very soft and supple sidewall, with a hard tread. After the Schwalbe tires wear out, we're going back to the Kendas.
I run Sunlite Thorn Resistant tubes on all my bikes - lack of punctures is very high on my priority list. No liners, no SLIME or similar - have tried both.
I run Sunlite Thorn Resistant tubes on all my bikes - lack of punctures is very high on my priority list. No liners, no SLIME or similar - have tried both.
#18
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Thank you nfmisso and leisesturm for your kindness in helping a fellow newbie.
In the last week I got an old Specialized Rockhopper for free, and I bought a triathlon 2006 Quintana Roo Seduza for $350 (see pictures below). They are single bikes. The Rockhopper gives me an extremely smooth and effortless rides even climbing little slop in my neighborhood.
The Seduza is another story. It's very light that I can lift it up with an index finger, and it has good shimano components such as Durace and Ultegra. However, due to my limited riding skill, I'm having balancing issues especially when I need to raise one hand and reach out to top of aero bars for gear shifting. Other than that, I love riding it. I feel like flying without exerting any energy. Because it's a nice bike, I'm thinking of changing some parts for my comfort. I have asked about it in the triathlon room.
Anyway, the T100 tandem is our primary bike. But after nice ridings on the two singles, I feel that it doesn't give the same level of enjoyment even after an overhaul tuneup by a Trek technician. Also, I asked him about changing to better tires. He didn't think it would make a big difference or anything at all compare to what I have on now.
Anyway, my question is if I were to swap drivetrain, crankset, and derailleurs from the Seduza to the T100, would that help the performance by much? I understand the T100 will always be heavier and can't be compared to a light weight single. I just want to know if it's worth the hassle to upgrade the components. Or, is it better move on to a better tandem? I hate the feeling of having to buy another one with less than two months.
In the last week I got an old Specialized Rockhopper for free, and I bought a triathlon 2006 Quintana Roo Seduza for $350 (see pictures below). They are single bikes. The Rockhopper gives me an extremely smooth and effortless rides even climbing little slop in my neighborhood.
The Seduza is another story. It's very light that I can lift it up with an index finger, and it has good shimano components such as Durace and Ultegra. However, due to my limited riding skill, I'm having balancing issues especially when I need to raise one hand and reach out to top of aero bars for gear shifting. Other than that, I love riding it. I feel like flying without exerting any energy. Because it's a nice bike, I'm thinking of changing some parts for my comfort. I have asked about it in the triathlon room.
Anyway, the T100 tandem is our primary bike. But after nice ridings on the two singles, I feel that it doesn't give the same level of enjoyment even after an overhaul tuneup by a Trek technician. Also, I asked him about changing to better tires. He didn't think it would make a big difference or anything at all compare to what I have on now.
Anyway, my question is if I were to swap drivetrain, crankset, and derailleurs from the Seduza to the T100, would that help the performance by much? I understand the T100 will always be heavier and can't be compared to a light weight single. I just want to know if it's worth the hassle to upgrade the components. Or, is it better move on to a better tandem? I hate the feeling of having to buy another one with less than two months.
Last edited by hcgaloi; 09-06-16 at 04:14 PM.
#19
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A tandem is a long limo, your Quintana is a very high performance racer; expecting similar performance is not realistic. (Lincoln vs Lotus is a similar comparison)
On the level, or down hill, the tandem will blow by a single bike with comparable level riders on both. It is a lot of fun for us older heavier riders. Any up hill, and we're blown by.
The only way to make your tandem significantly faster is to upgrade the engine (you).
We changed our T50 from 7 speed (12-28) to 9 speed (11-34) to get closer gear ratios and a lower bottom gear. We kept the same crankset: 26-44-54.
#20
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Thanks again nfmisso!!!
Sorry for not explaining myself clearly. When I rode the Seduza around a 5.6 mile lake, I did four rounds and still felt that I could ride a lot longer. But when I rode the T100, after just one round my wife and I were exhausted and had to wrapped up. Anyway, i ride leisurely for exercise benefits. And, wish that my wife and I can last longer each ride. I'm certain if we keep up, we will improve. However, I feel that we spend more time driving 50 miles (2-way) and putting on biking gears for the meager 5.6 miles. I'm hoping that upgrading the T100 components would give us at least two rounds per ride to make it worthwhile.
Thanks again
Sorry for not explaining myself clearly. When I rode the Seduza around a 5.6 mile lake, I did four rounds and still felt that I could ride a lot longer. But when I rode the T100, after just one round my wife and I were exhausted and had to wrapped up. Anyway, i ride leisurely for exercise benefits. And, wish that my wife and I can last longer each ride. I'm certain if we keep up, we will improve. However, I feel that we spend more time driving 50 miles (2-way) and putting on biking gears for the meager 5.6 miles. I'm hoping that upgrading the T100 components would give us at least two rounds per ride to make it worthwhile.
Thanks again
#21
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Hcgaloi,
Often new riders will ask: "When does it get easier?" My stock answer is: "It doesn't get easier, it gets longer."
If you and your wife keep riding, pretty soon you will find that you are doing longer and longer rides and feeling like you can ride more.
Keep going, you are on the right path.
Often new riders will ask: "When does it get easier?" My stock answer is: "It doesn't get easier, it gets longer."
If you and your wife keep riding, pretty soon you will find that you are doing longer and longer rides and feeling like you can ride more.
Keep going, you are on the right path.
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Thanks again nfmisso!!!
Sorry for not explaining myself clearly. When I rode the Seduza around a 5.6 mile lake, I did four rounds and still felt that I could ride a lot longer. But when I rode the T100, after just one round my wife and I were exhausted and had to wrapped up. Anyway, i ride leisurely for exercise benefits. And, wish that my wife and I can last longer each ride. I'm certain if we keep up, we will improve. However, I feel that we spend more time driving 50 miles (2-way) and putting on biking gears for the meager 5.6 miles. I'm hoping that upgrading the T100 components would give us at least two rounds per ride to make it worthwhile.
Thanks again ������
Sorry for not explaining myself clearly. When I rode the Seduza around a 5.6 mile lake, I did four rounds and still felt that I could ride a lot longer. But when I rode the T100, after just one round my wife and I were exhausted and had to wrapped up. Anyway, i ride leisurely for exercise benefits. And, wish that my wife and I can last longer each ride. I'm certain if we keep up, we will improve. However, I feel that we spend more time driving 50 miles (2-way) and putting on biking gears for the meager 5.6 miles. I'm hoping that upgrading the T100 components would give us at least two rounds per ride to make it worthwhile.
Thanks again ������
#23
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I don't think I could justify car topping a tandem 25mi. unless it was to do a very once in a while special group ride or something. For regular weekend riding it has to be something that can be reached with only a mile or three of easy riding. I can't imagine anywhere in this country that wouldn't have a nice park or rural roads within riding distance.
#24
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
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Bikes: 2015 Apollo Syncro tandem, 2006 Scott CR1 SL (still a beastie race bike), 1993 Trek T200, 2006 Fuji Absolute Le, 2000 Thorn Club Tour
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Yeah sometimes we go around our local lake, then remember why we don't do that anymore. Everybody has a right to be there, to enjoy that delightful spot and use that public infrastructure. But riding through it all on a tandem is no fun. Much nicer to dawdle on the single bike.
#25
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Bikes: Spcialized RockHopper (free) 1992 Trek T100 Tandem ($220) 2006 Quintana Roo Seduza ($350) 2016 Giant Fastroad ($1100)
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Thank you nfmisso, Alcanbrad, L134, Leisesturm, and WPH for your time and efforts to help a newbie.
I live in San Marcos (north county of San Diego), and it doesn't have routes specifically designated for bikes. The routes have a few sections of 2-3 miles for bikes only, and the rest are shared with automobiles. Last weekend, we tried our tandem on one of the routes. We did probably 1.5 miles and had to call it off. It was too stressful when we rode across intersections or sections sharing with automobiles. Our amateur skills is not adequate to handle stopping/starting at traffic lights or stop signs, especially approaching cars or some changing lanes so close to us. I really hate it when some honked their horns because they tried to make right turns driving behind us. Honestly, for our safety, we pedaled as fast as we could to be out of their ways. Now thinking about it, they were nicer than the ones that tried to cut us off to turns. They pushed us hazardously further out on the road. Hence, we have decided from now on, we'll just ride around lakes because it's more pleasant and peaceful.
Anyway, at Miramar lake in San Diego, I notice that majority of people would park in the big lot and start their activities at the right main entrance. Only a rare few would start on the opposite at a small parking lot. Thus, after our first try, we would start at the other direction. Since going against the crowd, I have found that walkers, roller bladders, and even other cyclists would automatically move to their side of the route before we approach them. This makes it a whole lot easier because I don't have to weave in/out much.
I live in San Marcos (north county of San Diego), and it doesn't have routes specifically designated for bikes. The routes have a few sections of 2-3 miles for bikes only, and the rest are shared with automobiles. Last weekend, we tried our tandem on one of the routes. We did probably 1.5 miles and had to call it off. It was too stressful when we rode across intersections or sections sharing with automobiles. Our amateur skills is not adequate to handle stopping/starting at traffic lights or stop signs, especially approaching cars or some changing lanes so close to us. I really hate it when some honked their horns because they tried to make right turns driving behind us. Honestly, for our safety, we pedaled as fast as we could to be out of their ways. Now thinking about it, they were nicer than the ones that tried to cut us off to turns. They pushed us hazardously further out on the road. Hence, we have decided from now on, we'll just ride around lakes because it's more pleasant and peaceful.
Anyway, at Miramar lake in San Diego, I notice that majority of people would park in the big lot and start their activities at the right main entrance. Only a rare few would start on the opposite at a small parking lot. Thus, after our first try, we would start at the other direction. Since going against the crowd, I have found that walkers, roller bladders, and even other cyclists would automatically move to their side of the route before we approach them. This makes it a whole lot easier because I don't have to weave in/out much.