Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Tandem Upgrade

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Meridian, Idaho
    Posts
    61
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Tandem Upgrade

    Hi,

    I just joined the forum.

    My wife and I have a 5-6 year old Aluminum Santana Sovereign.

    We are thinking of upgrading to a tandem with a smoother ride.

    Has anyone switched from Aluminum to Steel or Carbon or Ti on a Tandem bicycle.

    Any big difference in comfort, handling etc...

    We are not set on a particular brand or material.

    Rob

  2. #2
    Senior Member zonatandem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    My Bikes
    ariZona carbon fiber tandem & single
    Posts
    10,072
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Howdy from Tucson, Rob!

    Our money (and our butts) are on carbon fiber; we both agree: more comfortable than any steel, alu or ti tandem we've ridden (including, 'tana, Burley, Co-Mo, 'dale, Serotta, daVinci, Trek . . . and more). Great handling, easier climbing and much-much lighter! Our custom tandem weighs in, ready to roll, under 30 lbs. Currently have 'bout 8,000 miles on the odo.
    Check out the ariZonaTandems.com website. He is introducing a (Gasp!) 24 pound tandem for 2006!
    If you order before the end of this month, he'll build a custom fixed c/f stoker stem for free (a $300+ value).
    Even if you're just a-lookin and not yet ready to buy, check it out.

    Pedal on TWOgether!
    Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

  3. #3
    HomeBrew Master! Gus Riley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    West Central Illinois
    My Bikes
    Aegis Aro Svelte, Surly LHT, Cannondal R3000 tandem, Santana Triplet.
    Posts
    2,208
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Gasp is right! Lovely and expensive too.
    2012 TransAm Tour journal link: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/Threeisacharm

    Naked Carbon Weave Aegis Aro Svelte, Purpleen Cannondale RT3000 Tandem, Orange Santana Triplet, Surly Long Haul Trucker

    So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides, 4th Century B.C.E.



    http://tickers.TickerFactory.com/ezt...33f/weight.png

  4. #4
    Senior Member zonatandem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    My Bikes
    ariZona carbon fiber tandem & single
    Posts
    10,072
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Gasp!?
    We consider our c/f tandem an investment in our health . . . and do not own 2 cars.
    It's all relative/priorities!

    Pedal on TWOgether!
    Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

  5. #5
    Banned. galen_52657's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Towson, MD
    My Bikes
    2001 Look KG 241, 1989 Specialized Stump Jumper Comp, 1986 Gatane Performanc
    Posts
    4,020
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    One day, I may purchase a high-end tandem. But, you can stay just as healthy on an old/slow/heavy tandem.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    New Jersey
    My Bikes
    Colnago C40 HP, Aegis Trident, Cannondale tandem
    Posts
    491
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The frame material is only a portion of the story. I've got a lot of experience with racing bikes and can tell you that, based on that eperience, there's good and bad frames made from every material. Bad carbon is like riding on a 2x4- no road feedback at all- sex with a really thick condom!! (Kestrel makes great examples of that); bad Ti can be like riding a wet noodle (the old Litespeed catalyst was that); Good carbon is simply the best it can be engineered better than any metal for an exacting ride. If you can afford good carbon I'd say YES. Having said that, I'm riding a Cdale 'cause it is stout and we like to hammer.

  7. #7
    HomeBrew Master! Gus Riley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    West Central Illinois
    My Bikes
    Aegis Aro Svelte, Surly LHT, Cannondal R3000 tandem, Santana Triplet.
    Posts
    2,208
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by galen_52657
    One day, I may purchase a high-end tandem. But, you can stay just as healthy on an old/slow/heavy tandem.
    2nd that.

    I'd love to have a Zona, it would be parked right next to my high end single (carbon) when not in use. We're even in the market for a good triplet, and Zona shows a very nice alternative, still the expense is far beyond what we're ready to pay. Our C'dale is all we need as evidenced by our plans to travel it cross country, and it is less than half the price of the Zonas.
    2012 TransAm Tour journal link: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/Threeisacharm

    Naked Carbon Weave Aegis Aro Svelte, Purpleen Cannondale RT3000 Tandem, Orange Santana Triplet, Surly Long Haul Trucker

    So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides, 4th Century B.C.E.



    http://tickers.TickerFactory.com/ezt...33f/weight.png

  8. #8
    HomeBrew Master! Gus Riley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    West Central Illinois
    My Bikes
    Aegis Aro Svelte, Surly LHT, Cannondal R3000 tandem, Santana Triplet.
    Posts
    2,208
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by zonatandem
    Gasp!?
    We consider our c/f tandem an investment in our health . . . and do not own 2 cars.
    It's all relative/priorities!

    Pedal on TWOgether!
    Rudy and Kay/zonatandem
    By your forum name, maybe you have some serious connections to the company? Maybe you own it? (please no offense intended, I'm fishin for a deal here) Maybe you can make us a deal we can't pass up on that triplet option. Can these Zonas take pannier racks and such? Will they accept larger tires and rims for full-up touring? For the money, I'd like to be able to self contain tour as well as race around our local region on one.

    I own four cars, two of which I can get my bikes on top. The other two are toys...none are SUVs. All are licensed and insured.
    2012 TransAm Tour journal link: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/Threeisacharm

    Naked Carbon Weave Aegis Aro Svelte, Purpleen Cannondale RT3000 Tandem, Orange Santana Triplet, Surly Long Haul Trucker

    So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides, 4th Century B.C.E.



    http://tickers.TickerFactory.com/ezt...33f/weight.png

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Meridian, Idaho
    Posts
    61
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks for the input.

    I have ridden and raced different frame materials on single bikes, but only ridden the aluminum tandem.

    I was hoping to get replies from people that have ridden different material frames.

    We don't race the tandem. Just charity rides, tandem rally's (northwest and Santana) and just completed cycle Oregon. We have a lot of chip seal roads here in Idaho, so a little bumpy.

    Weight is not quite as important as ride quality. We usually have a rack with one bag on it over the rear wheel.

    We use 700x28 tires right now, a rear suspension seat post and the Formula disc brake.

    Rob

  10. #10
    Senior Member zonatandem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    My Bikes
    ariZona carbon fiber tandem & single
    Posts
    10,072
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Gus Riley:
    No we do not own or have a financial investment in ariZonaTandems!
    However, the builder, Bob Davis, is a friend of ours; when he built his first prototype c/f tandem he wanted our input; we were so impressed we did an article on his prototype for R&TR magazine.
    One thing led to the another . . . we were due for a new tandem, as our custom Co-Mo had surpassed the 56,000 mile mark.
    So got busy; laid out our requirements and Bob obliged.
    Well, there were questions like: "you want what???! . . ." from Bob.
    So that led to the development of a prototype custom c/f adjustable stoker stem, c/f stoker handrests and an integrated stem/waterbottle set-up for stoker (got to keep her h-a-p-p-y!) + a full c/f one-of rear luggage rack and some glue-ons (braze-ons) like: twin spoke holder under the boob tube as well as a ti-glue-on on stoker stem for our . . . mini garage door opener. Also cable guides for computer wire on fork and headtube (don't like wireless) among other things.
    We have ridden 'bout 30 brands of tandems in our 30+ years of riding . . . some good, some not so-good. Ridden steel, alu, ti and c/f. Have pedaled 200,000+ miles as a tandem duo and are not easily impressed; however when we test rode a couple c/f twicers, stoker Kay said "I'm impressed!"
    In our opinion, buy the best you can afford . . . Do we really *need* that nice/pricey kind of a tandem? Not really. Heck we're in our 70s, maybe we should wait 'til we get older? Again: not really! This *may* be our last tandem . . . Kay says, "yes I've heard that before!"
    There's lots of things we do not consider 'got-to-have' . . . that others have.
    A good builder that really knows his craft is worth the extra $$.

    Pedal on TWOgether!
    Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

  11. #11
    Senior Member zonatandem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    My Bikes
    ariZona carbon fiber tandem & single
    Posts
    10,072
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    a 24 lbs c/f tandem?

  12. #12
    Senior Member zonatandem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    My Bikes
    ariZona carbon fiber tandem & single
    Posts
    10,072
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Paketa Magnesium tandem built in Boulder, CO. Frame: 5.4 lbs! Check Precisions tandems website for more info . . . this tandem apparently finished first in the 'Hotter than Hell Hundred' in TX this year.

    So, can we go lighter?

    Pedal on TWOgether!
    Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    New Jersey
    My Bikes
    Colnago C40 HP, Aegis Trident, Cannondale tandem
    Posts
    491
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Personally I'd want some real time data form an experienced rider before shelling out money on magnesium. I know that Pinarello is using it, but I haven't heard anyone selling it as the next best thing since sliced bread. Yes, it's lighter than Aluminum, but is it any less harsh? Carbon is a well proved material for bike frames and increasing in its market impact daily.

  14. #14
    Senior Member zonatandem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    My Bikes
    ariZona carbon fiber tandem & single
    Posts
    10,072
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Paketa's builders claim to have solved salt air corrosion difficulties with magnesium; some folks worry about Magnesium's flammability, but that is a non-issue as far as we are concerned.
    And yes, it is lighter/etc than alu.

  15. #15
    Banned. galen_52657's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Towson, MD
    My Bikes
    2001 Look KG 241, 1989 Specialized Stump Jumper Comp, 1986 Gatane Performanc
    Posts
    4,020
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by zonatandem
    Paketa's builders claim to have solved salt air corrosion difficulties with magnesium; some folks worry about Magnesium's flammability, but that is a non-issue as far as we are concerned.
    And yes, it is lighter/etc than alu.

    I read the blurb on the Precision Tandems web site. I did not see the price listed. So, I am going to guess that the Paketa's cost is considerably higher than an aluminum frame?

    Magnesium is highly reactive. If you see an old air-cooled VW on the side of the road (magnesium block) with an engine fire - don't try to put it out with water!!! It's nice to push the envlope for research purposes, but a lot of this stuff is way, way past the point of deminishing returns.

  16. #16
    K&M
    K&M is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Central California
    Posts
    153
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hey Rob,

    You might try putting a carbon fork on that old bike. That could give you a nicer ride without having to buy a new bike at all ('course you might not want to lose your excuse to buy a new bike ).

  17. #17
    Senior Member mudmouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    western Oregon
    My Bikes
    Trek Pilot, X-Caliber WSD, Rockhopper, Allez vita, miyata triplecross
    Posts
    163
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    >>>Magnesium is highly reactive. If you see an old air-cooled VW on the side of the road (magnesium block) with an engine fire - don't try to put it out with water!!! <<<

    EEK! Don't tell me these things! My son is into old VW's (especially buses). It's bad enough that they have no seatbelts and nothing between the front passengers and any front end crashes. Fortunately the bus spends more time sitting in the driveway waiting for repair . . . er, restoration.
    Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth.
    --Mark Twain


    bluekat's journeys
    Cyclepathology

  18. #18
    Banned. galen_52657's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Towson, MD
    My Bikes
    2001 Look KG 241, 1989 Specialized Stump Jumper Comp, 1986 Gatane Performanc
    Posts
    4,020
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I had a 1970 VW camper bus for years and years. As long as you changed the oil, it was stone-cold reliable. Slow as poo in the mountains, but still great fun. A little stinky when it leaked oil on the heat exchanger. Had no heat untill you had driven for 30 minutes or so....(carry a blanket!).

    Tell the boy to make sure all the fuel lines and clamps are in good shape. And if it does catch fire, put it out with a fire extiquisher, not water (may want to carry one).

  19. #19
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    7,155
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by robmitchell
    My wife and I have a 5-6 year old Aluminum Santana Sovereign. We are thinking of upgrading to a tandem with a smoother ride.
    Smoother ride? Try one of Santana's Arriva's, a Ti-700, or a Noventa. They're about as smooth and refined as they get from a production builder.

    FWIW, the Sovereign isn't all that stiff to begin with in the big scheme of things. Santana knows its buyers and really does a nice job of creating tandems that are biased towards "comfort" more so than some of the other builders who bias towards performance or best value. Again, as you'll find in previous posts on tandems and frame materials in the archives, the construction material alone will not define how a tandem handles or feels. The grades of the materials, the geometry, butting, and of course the wheel and tire selection all come in to play such that, even a steel Co-Motion is probably as stiff or stiffer than your Aluminum Sovereign... by design. Conversely, and relative to a recent discussion on Ti frames, a straight gauge Ti tandem produced in Asia will feel and handle quite differently than a Litespeed Ti tandem.

    My personal experiences in test riding different tandems tends to bear this out as well, particularly with the recent offerings in wheel options. Ask anyone who has replaced their original wheelset with something like a pair of integrated, low spoke count wheels, or even gone the other way a mounted up a set of 48h Rhyno-Lite XL rims laced 5x and they'll almost always make mention of how it changed the way their tandem felt and performed.

    Moreover, given how subjective "feelings" are with regard to tandems and how owners characterize their ride qualities, I'd urge you to take your time and try to make a point of test riding a few different tandems from different builders made from the materials you're interested in, perhaps by visiting one of the tandem dealers who stock several different brands and models (assuming you're within a days drive of one) or by "bumming a test ride" at a tandem rally from a fellow enthusiast.

    Your budget is the most significant factor in your search. Clearly, some of the more exotic materials may be interesting but if economically undesireable why even bother wasting your time and energy pursuing them. Simply take your budget, look at the offerings from the builders who pique your interest and/or call up a dealer who offers a wide selection of tandems and see what they can offer you. If you are looking for some very specific ride characteristics you may want to contact a custom builder like Dennis Bushnell who offers both aluminum and steel tandems to discuss your requirements and desires.

  20. #20
    Senior Member zonatandem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    My Bikes
    ariZona carbon fiber tandem & single
    Posts
    10,072
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Galen:
    To my recolection, the frameset for the magnesium Paketa is in the $5,000+ range. Would love to test ride one!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •