Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 29
  1. #1
    Cycle for life... woodcycl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Southern Indiana
    My Bikes
    Trek 5200 | Cannondale Six13 TeamOne | Cannondale Road Tandem | Cannondale Prophet 3 "Lefty"
    Posts
    1,258
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    New Cannondale Road Tandem Too Small?

    You may remember ... I purchased my Cannondale Road Tandem new from my LBS. The LBS owner has known me for 16yrs as a cyclist and has fit me to a handful of bikes, etc.

    I am 5' 7" tall with a 29" inseam ... short!

    He ordered me the M/S 2005 Cannondale road tanem. It seems to fit me "okay" ... but I have noticed (and confirmed with measurement recently) that I am more "on top" of the bottom-bracket / pedals than on my 54" Trek single road bike.

    Now, I have ridden with 7 different stokers in the past 4 months. And, all but one have mentioned that the tandem is TOO SMALL ... or they are on top of the pedals, etc. Believe me ... I have moved the seat as far back as it can go and adjusted the "very adjustable" handlebars as much as possible for the stoker. Four of those 7 stokers are seasoned cyclists and 2 of those 4 seasoned cyclists ride on tandems as stokers all the time. These two ladies mentioned "bouncing" on the seat when trying to pedal with intensity, etc. When other cyclists with our wheelmen club were brought into the discussion they wholeheartedly agreed after reviewing our fit to the bike.

    Even my father's wife who is 5' 2" felt like she was too over the pedals. Here is a photo of her standing over the bike last weekend with some fall colors in the background.



    It would seem that my tandem is a bit small for me ... but especially small for any stoker over 5' 2" tall or so. Would you agree with the limited information I've provided?

    Uggh!! I don't know what, if anything, my LBS owner will do for me. I'm sort of hoping he is willing to allow me to trade it back into him for ... maybe a L/M or L/L.

    Thoughts?
    -\Brian
    06' Cannondale Six13 TeamOne
    06' Cannondale Prophet 3 "Lefty"
    92' Trek 5200
    05' Cannondale Road Tandem

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    271
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by woodcycl
    You may remember ... I purchased my Cannondale Road Tandem new from my LBS. The LBS owner has known me for 16yrs as a cyclist and has fit me to a handful of bikes, etc.

    I am 5' 7" tall with a 29" inseam ... short!

    maybe a L/M or L/L.

    Thoughts?
    Cannondale does not offer L/M or L/L

    Besides,all Cannondale and most if not all others have 73* seat tube angles.If your are saying the seat tube angles are too steep,I dunno.You can't get a longer stoker compartment until you go to the X/M size,which would be waaay too long for you.

    If you are looking for more saddle setback,then maybe some custom seatposts (Albert Bold)are in order.We've had 2 C'dales,a X/S and a X/M,and the seat tube angles seem fine.If I were you,I'd be thankful I could ride the smallest,since the shorter wheelbase is better handling.Our X/S was an inch shorter than our current frame,but I can feel the difference.I liked riding it better than our bigger frame.

    dan
    no signature

  3. #3
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    7,143
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Captain first: Can you provide the following dimensions for the tandem and your 54cm road bike (FWIW, I'm 5'8" with a 30" inseam and ride a 54 x 54):

    Saddle height on tandem = _______ vs 54cm solo = _______

    Saddle set-back on tandem = _______ vs 54cm solo = _______

    Saddle nose to stem on tandem = _______ vs 54cm solo = _______

    Saddle nose to bar height diff on tandem = ______ vs 54cm solo = _______

    Crank length on tandem = _______ vs 54cm solo = _______

    With regard to your stokers, if they ride road solos of their own then the Cannondale probably seems very short because it is... and too short to replicate most folk's normal solo bike reach dimension without shoving the saddle back on an off-set seatpost and the pushing the bars up under the captain's saddle. In fact, at 27", it's about the shortest stoker compartment you'll find on a stock contemporary tandem and I'll be darned if I know why they did that. Before the CAAD frame change over in '99 Cannondale was known for having long stoker compartments on all of their tandems. While they still offer a 28" rear TT on their XL/M and a 29" on their Jumbo/L, the other three smaller sizes all use the 27" TT. The longest "standard" length you'll find across an entire size range is 28.5" by Co-Motion, with the others falling somewhere in between 27.5" and 28.5". Our first Santana had a 27.75" rear TT and, even though Debbie is only 5'2" and didn't ride a solo road bike at the time, it felt cramped to her. The 31" rear stoker compartment on our Erickson tandems has solved that problem and given her a lot of breathing room to boot.

    Anyway, not sure what to tell you about the stoker compartment. Again, you'll want to make sure that you're checking the saddle set-back position first before you start messing around with the other dimensions, as it's the most important. You'll also want to check pretty much the other dimensions mentioned above related to your position such that, if there's not enough room to replicate their solo bike you'll be able to figure out how to balance off any changes in reach with bar height, saddle nose tilt, and perhaps even some additional set-back to get a comfortable fit for your stokers.

  4. #4
    Banned. galen_52657's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Towson, MD
    My Bikes
    2001 Look KG 241, 1989 Specialized Stump Jumper Comp, 1986 Gatane Performanc
    Posts
    4,020
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Just from the photo it looks like the stoker's bars are too high and to far back. Plus, maybe some of your stoker's have used drop bars more than bullhorns and thus are not use to the bullhorns. The dummy lever on the drop bar is much farther forward than the standard hand hold on the bullhorn bar.

    Most fit problems I have had is getting the stoker's seat far enough forward to duplicate their KOPS from their single bike. The stoker does not need to ride as stretched out on a tandem as they would on a single becuase the captain is breaking wind for them - lots I have observed sit almost bolt upright.

    Like Mark said, try to duplicate your seat height, KOPS and reach from your single to the tandem and then work on the stoker. You could get a shorter stoker's stem.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    569
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by galen_52657
    Just from the photo it looks like the stoker's bars are too high and to far back.
    My stoker in 5'2". She has the bar set so that it starts underneath my saddle (about an inch from the end) and only has a very slight rise until the curved up ends. The bars end up near the front of my saddle (back about 2 inches). She is very comfortable with this position.

  6. #6
    Double Secret Probation R900's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Eastern Indiana
    My Bikes
    Madone 6 series SSL, Cannondale CX9, Trek TTX, Trek 970, Trek T2000
    Posts
    2,579
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You might want to try a drop stoker bar and do some more experimenting. Our older tandem is a flat bar Fuji. We just bought a new Trek and tested a Cannondale Large/Small, that fit both of us about as good as the Trek 58/46. Anyway the Trek has a traditional drop bar and felt a lot better then the Cannondale bullhorns. I think my wife even liked the straight bar with bar ends on the Fuji better then the Cannondale. You can buy a cheap Nashbar bar to give it a try and only be out a few bucks. I think a drop bar will stretch her out and give you more options for setting up the stoker.

    John
    Time to Ride...

  7. #7
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    7,143
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by woodcycl
    These two ladies mentioned "bouncing" on the seat when trying to pedal with intensity, etc.
    FWIW, when checking back for a follow-up it dawned on me that your tandem has a suspension seat post for the stokers... I sometimes forget about these things since Debbie doesn't use one. Anyway, although hardly the root cause of the fitting issues, a shock post can really screw up a stoker's pedalling stroke and the "feel" of the bike if:

    a. ...the stoker's saddle height was set without factoring in the amount of preloading or "sag" that occurs once the stoker is sitting on the saddle. Perhaps you know all this but, if not, sag is the term used to describe the reduction in a shock absorber, shock fork, or shock post's net height or length that occurs as the suspension system compressess under the weight of the rider. However, what also factors into it is the amount of mechanical suspension pre-load that is put into the shock absorbing system and the spring rate, often times simply referred to as "making the shock stiffer or less bouncy". For a telescoping shock post like yours, adjusting preload is usually accomplished by tightening or loosening the threaded end cap at the bottom of the shock post. You can usually change the spring rate and progression characteristics of a shock post by swapping out the elastomers for ones that are more or less firm.

    b. ...the stoker's shock post doesn't have a firm enough spring rate to deal with their pedal stroke and, as a result, the stoker will tend to 'bounce'. The spring rate can be changed as mentioned above. Changing spring rate is preferrable to using increased mechanical preload as the latter reduces the amount of useful suspension travel.

    Finally, it's worth mentioning that as the shock post compresses the saddle moves forward so not only do you need to consider how sag affectes saddle height, you also need to look at the minor changes it makes to all of the other riding position dimensions: set-back, reach, and bar height. They're small, but it's amazing how the body notices and reacts to small changes in riding position.

    Anyway, perhaps stuff you already knew or more than you wanted to know.... Just recognize, if you change stokers you need to be mindful of how the differences in weight will affect their saddle height as well as the way the shock post reacts.
    Last edited by TandemGeek; 10-25-05 at 04:08 PM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member zonatandem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    My Bikes
    ariZona carbon fiber tandem & single
    Posts
    9,830
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Agree, suspension seatpost will change stoker's pedaling position with each 'bounce'.
    And a set of drop bars will give more hand positions. Also noted your 'horn' part of the cowhorns is tilted up quite a bit; by tilting the 'horn' part down a few degrees, stoker will get a little more 'stretch' in the arms/upper body.
    As mentioned, a laid back seatpost will add a bit more space but will change leg position on pedals somewhat.
    Suggest: try a non-suspension seatpost and drop bars and see what stokers say. A cheap and possible solution to stoker's dilemma.

  9. #9
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    12
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Regarding the captain feeling "on top" of the bottom bracket: With an EBB you have quite a bit of adjustment, have your LBS setup like your single, bring that in and have them setup the tandem identical for you (seat height in relation to BB, saddle tilt, saddle fore/aft positioning from BB, reach to bars, and drop from seat to bars).

  10. #10
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    7,143
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by phil.
    With an EBB you have quite a bit of adjustment...
    Sort of... but it can make your head hurt trying to describe it with words. In general, you can usually opt to set your eccentric bottom bracket (EBB) with the bottom bracket (BB) above or below the centerline of the boom tube to bias your crank clearance, saddle height/center of gravity (CG), and your handlebar to saddle height up to about 1.5 centimeters.

    The Gory Details: (Illustration appended below... it may help, or then again, maybe not)

    Running the BB below centerline lets you lower your CG and saddle height up to a max of about 1.5 cm, but carries with it an equal reduction in cornering clearance. Running the BB above centerline gives you more cornering clearance, but also raises your saddle height and CG. If you need a slight handlebar height adjustment and have otherwise exhausted the adjustability of your stem by playing with the spacers, you can also look to the eccentric's orientation as another way of getting your riding position adjusted, i.e., by lowering or raising your saddle & crank height instead of the bars.

    With regard to saddle set-back, whether your eccentric is positioned with the BB above or below the centerline, rotating the bottom bracket towards the front of the tandem tightens the timing chain and increases set-back (moves the center of the crank axle toward the front of the tandem and further from the nose of your saddle). As your chain stretches, you will continue to increase your set-back since you'll need to rotate your eccentric toward the front of the tandem to take up the slack.

    As for playing around with the fore/aft adjustment, the length of the boom tube will determine how far your eccentric must be rotated to set the tension on the timing chain. In most cases, boom tubes are sized so that the EBB will be in a somewhat neutral position when a chain with full-length links is used. This usually ensures there will be enough fore-aft rotation to permit setting & releasing chain tension for timing chain removal plus some additional rotation for chain wear. The only way to play with any margin that exists in the eccentric’s default position and rotation is to use a half-link chain link (photo below). It could net you up to a few mm (.25" max) of fore (add a 1/2 link) or aft (replace a full link with a 1/2 link) position compared to the default EBB position.



    Bottom Line: The eccentric’s position can factor into a lot of different bike fitting scenarios if you are very sensitive to minor changes in bike fit. However, even if you get everything perfect on your tandem, as a tandem captain you’ll still need to deal with a slightly sub-optimal fit (again, we’re talking a max of 1.5cm) due to the EBBs purpose, noting that set-back will always increase several millimeters from where it is positioned when a chain is new to where it will be just before the chain needs to be replaced.

    EDIT: Good grief, I made that complicated... now MY head hurts. I've tried to clean it up; my apologies if you read the first edition, or the second without the illustration.
    Last edited by TandemGeek; 10-26-05 at 09:42 PM.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    271
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Tandemgeek:Thanks for the edit.I was thinking about asking you to dumb it down for me...

    dan
    no signature

  12. #12
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    7,143
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dfcas
    Tandemgeek:Thanks for the edit.I was thinking about asking you to dumb it down for me...
    Sorry about that. As someone once said, a picture is worth a thousand words... so I added one when I got home to my Mac.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Old Hammer Boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Utah
    My Bikes
    Trek, Cannondale Tandem, Surly LHT
    Posts
    1,082
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm 5'9 and my stoker is 5'6. We also have an '05 M/S Cannondale tandem, just like yours. We have spent 2 months adjusting everything to fit us. As with most bikes, it takes a little tweaking, getting everything just right. It's now very comfortable for both of us. I (captain) added a Delta steerer tube extender to raise the bars, and we fabricated a different bar clamp arrangement for my stoker. We've done a couple century rides with it and it's now as comfortable as our half bikes (54 cm Trek 2100s). We are "over the pedals" just like with our halfs, seat height and knee angle are both the same, but we are both a little more upright, which is okay with both of us, expecially me (the captain). For us, aerodynamics are not so critical, comfort is... With almost any tanderm the stoker, at first, feels a bit confined, after all, the front view is a bit obstructed.

    I wouldn't worry, just keep working on getting a good fit and it will come. OHB

  14. #14
    Time for a change. stapfam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    6 miles inland from the coast of Sussex, in the South East of England
    My Bikes
    Dale MT2000. Bianchi FS920 Kona Explosif. Giant TCR C. Boreas Ignis. Pinarello Fp Uno.
    Posts
    19,915
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Been following this with a bit of interest As I am 5'6" and 29"inseam. I ride as stoker on a Dale MT L/M and if it is not made now, it used to be. I can ride as pilot or stoker, with just a change of saddle height.
    Looking at your Tandem, the stoker stem seems very long, I have my bars under the rear of the pilots saddle. The pilots stem then seems short. I get the feeling that you have the right size frame, it just needs a bit of adjustment. Or a change of a few parts to get it adjusted. By the way My pilot can also ride as stoker and he is 6'3" and 34" inseam. There really is that much adjustment on our Setup.
    Last edited by stapfam; 10-27-05 at 02:03 PM.
    How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.


    Spike Milligan

  15. #15
    Cycle for life... woodcycl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Southern Indiana
    My Bikes
    Trek 5200 | Cannondale Six13 TeamOne | Cannondale Road Tandem | Cannondale Prophet 3 "Lefty"
    Posts
    1,258
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Wow -- Thanks for all the feedback! I had no idea this topic would have this much response. I think it is a good thing ... so we can all learn from it.

    I think those who have mentioned that stoker handlebar/stem is too far back and up are definitely correct in their assessment. I sat on the stoker seat for the first time last night as I was trying to determine what could be done ... and to understand better what my stokers have explained to me. Let me say ... there is NO better way to understand as to actually experience it for yourself. I didn't ride as a stoker, but I sat back there and pedaled backward and understood what they explained.

    The stoker's TT length is exactly 27" ... and the specs say 27.1" ... so close enough. And, from what my LBS owner states, this is a pretty standard length ... if not a little longer than others. In fact, he pulled down a Burley tandem that was a larger overall frame than mine and measured it. It had a 26.5" stoker TT. So, that made me feel better.

    And, to clarify, according to the Cannondale 2006 specs on the Road tandem ... you have to go with a X/M before you get a longer stoker TT.

    Yes, I did add the extension and stem to the stock seat post stoker handlebar insert from Tandem's East ... based upon my original stoker's request to have a more upright position when riding. However, I never really understood how truly upright and compact it was until last night.

    Okay ... so I removed the extension and used the stock extension which keeps the handlebars under the seat. But, kept the new stem (attached to the insert). This keeps the handlebars farther UP. Here's the reason for this ... and the reason I think there is still a bit of an issue with tweaking the stoker compartment:

    I am only 5' 6.5" tall with a 29" inseam. My saddle heigth only allows SO MUCH seat tube for the stoker's handlebars to be raised. Thus, any stoker over let's say ... taller than 5' 2" or so ... will have handlebars that are a tad too low compared to their own seat heigth ... giving them the experience of leaning over too much or having their hands/arms lower than they would on a single. Does this make sense?


    So, I now have the stoker handlebars as far forward and up under my seat as possible. However, the top of the handlebars are lower than the stoker's seat (in 98% of the cases) ... and maybe too low for some stokers who will have a higher seat heigth to be totally comfortable. And, the stoker computer on the handlebar cannot be in it's normal position due to the handlebar being so close to the bottom of the seat. I had to move the computer "out" closer to the normal hand on top of handlebar location. But, even then ... it sticks me in the bottom of my rear end when I'm on the saddle ... so I had to tilt it down so much that I doubt the stoker can actually see it very easily.

    Trials and tribulations with tweaking! Are there any other shorter captains out there where due to their low seat heigth, the stoker's handlebars cannot be adjusted/tweaked as needed? If so, how are you handling it?

    Also -- can anyone recommend or suggest a seat tube that has more extension on it ... that sets the seat back farther away from the handlebars ... that isn't overly expensive?

    I think I will go ahead and get some regular drop handlebars and give that a whirl also.

    Another question: Is there any kind of adapter I can use to mount the stoker computer on the stem ... perpendicular to the regular mount so I can move it off the handlebar?

    Thanks for any suggestions and comments!

    Thanks!
    -\Brian
    06' Cannondale Six13 TeamOne
    06' Cannondale Prophet 3 "Lefty"
    92' Trek 5200
    05' Cannondale Road Tandem

  16. #16
    Banned. galen_52657's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Towson, MD
    My Bikes
    2001 Look KG 241, 1989 Specialized Stump Jumper Comp, 1986 Gatane Performanc
    Posts
    4,020
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by woodcycl

    Another question: Is there any kind of adapter I can use to mount the stoker computer on the stem ... perpendicular to the regular mount so I can move it off the handlebar?

    Thanks for any suggestions and comments!

    Thanks!
    Check out the mount you have from the underside. Lots of computer mounts can go on the bar or the stem. You may have to use a pulltie or two to hold it on the stem. My Cat Eye will go either way.

    Also, you may be able to find a stoker's stem that has less rise. That way you could lower the stoker bars more if necessary.

  17. #17
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    7,143
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by woodcycl
    In fact, he pulled down a Burley tandem that was a larger overall frame than mine and measured it. It had a 26.5" stoker TT.
    New Burley or an older model? To the best of my recollection, and those of you who own newer Burley's will need to check this, all of the 2002 and up Burley 700c steel & Alum tandems (ex. Zydeco) now have a 27.5" rear stoker compartment.

    For what it's worth, Burley was one of the last hold-outs on sub-27" top tubes up and until 2002 when it re-vamped its product line, to include adding the aluminum line of frames. At the time of their initial introduction Burley's aluminum tandems were built for them by Trek, coinciding with Trek's re-entry into the tandem market with its T1000 and T2000 aluminum tandems. While the Burley tandems all used 27.5" rear top tubes, the Trek's rear top tubes were, and I believe still are, 28.7" (Sm), 28.5" (Md), and 28.8" (Lg). The variations come from changes in angle of the captain's seat tube angle which are 73.5* (Sm), 73* (Md), and 72.5* (Lg) while the boom tube length remains constant at around 29". Note: The rear stoker compartment measurement is taken from a horizontal line that runs from the captain's to the stoker's seat post, not the physical length of the tube that joins them together.


    Quote Originally Posted by woodcycl
    Thus, any stoker over let's say ... taller than 5' 2" or so ... will have handlebars that are a tad too low compared to their own seat heigth ... giving them the experience of leaning over too much or having their hands/arms lower than they would on a single. Does this make sense?
    I don't know about y'all, but the handlebars on all of my road bikes are lower than my seat, somewhere on the order of 3cm or so (it seems to keep coming up a bit as I get older). I don't think that's all unusual either for most folks who are sport riders or who compete. For recreational riding, the bars will be level or a bit higher except for comfort bikes which, well, they're comfort bikes...


    Quote Originally Posted by woodcycl
    Are there any other shorter captains out there where due to their low seat heigth, the stoker's handlebars cannot be adjusted/tweaked as needed? If so, how are you handling it?
    Although we don't have this issue, it's worthwhile to note that you can usually use one of the longer models of flip/flop threadless stems with a shallow rise (with any appropriate spacer needed given the diameter of your seat tube) as a stoker stem to get a more horizontal bar position. Just make sure you use the appropriate size clamp for your handlebars. Ritchey has a full size range of stems that would probably work in this application, although they are a bit pricey. I believe I also mentioned Santana's ASX-50 adjustable stem in a previous post: First EVER ride on Tandem & on my new 05' Cannondale!


    Quote Originally Posted by woodcycl
    Also -- can anyone recommend or suggest a seat tube that has more extension on it ... that sets the seat back farther away from the handlebars ... that isn't overly expensive?
    I wouldn't go there until you confirmed that your stoker's saddle set-back with the current set-back seat post on your tandem doesn't already provide sufficient range of movement. I have seen way too many stokers sitting way too far back behind their pedals because someone tried to artificially extend the stoker compartment of their tandem. Santana goes so far as to offer it up as a way of suggesting that their 28" (or is it 27.75", I lose track) stoker compartment can be stretched to 30" with the saddle pushed all the back back on the rails of a set-back seat post and their bull horn bars shoved all the way under the captain's saddle. If your stoker was 6' tall, that might be OK, but certainly not for a stoker who only needs something like 3cm of saddle set-back from the crank axle.


    Quote Originally Posted by woodcycl
    I think I will go ahead and get some regular drop handlebars and give that a whirl also.
    Always a good call in my book... just not a fan of bull horns (check the archives).


    Quote Originally Posted by woodcycl
    Is there any kind of adapter I can use to mount the stoker computer on the stem ... perpendicular to the regular mount so I can move it off the handlebar?
    As Galen notes, some computer mounting heads can be used on the stem or the bars right out of the box. If not, you can either fabricate (wood dowel, 35mm photo cannister) or buy an aerobar computer mount adapter. You'd need to confirm that the "strap" is long enough for the C'dales massive tubes.
    Last edited by TandemGeek; 10-28-05 at 06:58 PM.

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Netherlands
    My Bikes
    Santos Dual Travel touring tandem, MSC Zion MTB-tandem, Santos SCC03 MTB, Santos STR01 trekking bike, Cannondale F500 MTB, Kalkhoff E-bike, Centurion Cross 4000 cyclocross bike (converted to road bike)
    Posts
    122
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by zonatandem
    Agree, suspension seatpost will change stoker's pedaling position with each 'bounce'.
    And a set of drop bars will give more hand positions. Also noted your 'horn' part of the cowhorns is tilted up quite a bit; by tilting the 'horn' part down a few degrees, stoker will get a little more 'stretch' in the arms/upper body.
    As mentioned, a laid back seatpost will add a bit more space but will change leg position on pedals somewhat.
    Suggest: try a non-suspension seatpost and drop bars and see what stokers say. A cheap and possible solution to stoker's dilemma.
    In principle, the stoker's pedaling position changes with each 'bounce'. But a properly setup suspension post will not bounce all the time on a normal road. At least, neither the Airwings, USE or Thudbuster we alternately use, do so. And if they do, the changes are minute. The Thudbuster (of course) gives the most 'dramatic' changes but only when riding off-road, so under conditions where the exact seat position of the stoker is of less importance
    Regards, Marten / www.tandemclub.nl
    '03 Santos Dual Travel | '13 MSC Zion Tandem

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    344
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek
    The only way to play with any margin that exists in the eccentric’s default position and rotation is to use a half-link chain link (photo below).
    I want it I want it I want it.

    I was going to ask "where do you get it?", but I see from the image url that Harris offers it.

    It is described as for use with 3/32" chains. Will this press right into my 8speed SRAM timing chain?

    -Greg

  20. #20
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    7,143
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by gregm
    It is described as for use with 3/32" chains. Will this press right into my 8speed SRAM timing chain?
    3/32 refers to the inside width of the chain and, yes, you can use it with your 8 speed timing chain since the exterior width of the chain is inconsequential, just as it is on a fixed gear or single speed bike... which is what the 1/2 links were designed for.
    Last edited by TandemGeek; 10-28-05 at 06:48 PM.

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    344
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek
    yes, you can use it with your 8 speed timing chain
    Thanks, TG! I'm placing my order this weekend.

    -Greg

  22. #22
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    7,143
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by gregm
    Thanks, TG! I'm placing my order this weekend.
    Make sure you have enough margin in your EBB rotation to use it... and also note that any local bike shops that support track racers or a large fixie/single-speed rider scene, e.g., Seattle & Redmond, WA, area, should also have these things on hand, although the 3/32" are usually harder to find than the 1/8" half links.

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    344
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek
    Make sure you have enough margin in your EBB rotation to use it...
    Yup! It's just what I need. As-is, the BB spindle is forward of center front-to-back, and I can position it above or below center top-to-bottom. If I remove a full link (two teeth, so to speak) from the timing chain, and move the BB spindle all the way back, the timing chain is juuuuuust too tight to quite work.

    So, by removing a full link and adding one of these half-links back in, I will have access to two new positions, rearward of current, which is what I'm looking to try.

    Cooool...

    -Greg

  24. #24
    Cycle for life... woodcycl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Southern Indiana
    My Bikes
    Trek 5200 | Cannondale Six13 TeamOne | Cannondale Road Tandem | Cannondale Prophet 3 "Lefty"
    Posts
    1,258
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The current stem I have, obtained from Tandem's east, provides me with higher (closer to the underside of the captain's saddle) stoker handlebar height. This is due to the tube that is attached to the captain's seat tube ... as it rides higher on the seat tube, the seat tube's bend at the top doesn' tallow the tube (that the stoker handlebar inserts into) to be placed as high. Thus, the riser stem that I'm using obtained from Tandem's east ... places the stoker handlebar truly right up into the rails of the underside of the captain saddle ... and the tube attached to the captain's seat tube is only mid-way up from the bottom.

    You can see from the photos below what I"m talking about. And, the stock cannondale stem that inserts into the tube attached to the captain's seat tube, is a straight stem ... photo below also.

    The new insert that is being used from Tandem's East is sticking out toward the stoker in a BIG way ... I cannot swap back to my original stock cannondale stem mentioned above due to the handlebar being several inches below the height of the stoker's saddle if I do so. Not to mention, that the stock cannondale insert/stem would force me to remove the handlebar tape, etc.

    Edited to Add: The Cateye Astrale 8 doesn't appear to allow a straight mount as I hoped. No big deal.













    -\Brian
    06' Cannondale Six13 TeamOne
    06' Cannondale Prophet 3 "Lefty"
    92' Trek 5200
    05' Cannondale Road Tandem

  25. #25
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    7,143
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    A couple thoughts...

    1. I would still like to see the blanks filled in from my first post with respect to your riding position on the tandem & your 54cm bike, along with the stoker's single bike riding position dimensions.

    2. Unless you really need the chi chi, 30cm super-long Fi'zi:k Arione, consider using a standard length saddle (~26cm): it will give your stoker an extra 1.5" of reach / cockpit room to work with (see overlay of Arione with standard-length saddle at bottom of this post).

    3. Again, check your stoker's normal bike riding position to confirm the height difference between the top of the saddle and the top of their handlebars. If they're level, you should be able to get either the stock bullhorn bars or a nice set of drop bars tucked in at the back edge of a normal length saddle using the stock Cannondale stoker's boom or, if need be, use the TandemsEast stem to put the bars just under the back of your saddle.

    4. Bummer about the bar tape but, after all, it's just one side of the handlebar that needs to have the tape removed to get the bar out of stem and into a different one. Moreover, if you remove it carefully you can usually use it to re-wrap the bar after it have been re-installed. Given that those bars don't have a stoker rest, removing and re-wrapping the bars is about a 10 minute job + another 5 minutes to remove and re-install the bars in a different stoker boom.

    5. If you are going to have multiple stokers which require various different bar configurations AND the current Tandems East stem you have doesn't offer the flexibility that you need, strongly consider the ASX-50 extension mentioned in an earlier reply.

    6. If you keep the Tandems East stoker boom on the tandem, you can probably mount the Profile aerobar computer mount I mentioned earlier to the boom to get your stoker's computer out from under your butt and into clear view without resorting to mounting it on the top tube.
    Last edited by TandemGeek; 10-31-05 at 05:09 AM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •