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Tandem Cycling A bicycle built for two. Want to find out more about this wonderful world of tandems? Check out this forum to talk with other tandem enthusiasts. Captains and stokers welcome!

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Old 11-18-05, 07:16 AM   #1
acrafton
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1998 Co-Motion Speedster - price

Guys - I have the opportunity to by 1998 Co-Motion Speedster in excellent condition for $1000. It has the standard set up:

Blue to purple fade. 21-17 inch frame. Phil Wood hubs, Sachs RD,FD, Spez triple, Sachs 8sps cass, shimano barcon shifter, V-brakes, Mavic rims. Suspension rear seatpost. No pedals or tires.

This seems a reasonable price for this bike Thoughts?

Adam
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Old 11-18-05, 08:10 AM   #2
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Yes, assuming the condition is as stated, it's a very good price.

For more infomation: http://www.thetandemlink.com/usedhome.html
MSRP for an '05 Speedster is $3,950.
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Old 11-18-05, 02:51 PM   #3
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Makes me wanna cry knowing our speedster will be that worthless in 7 years time. I thought tandems would hold their value better.
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Old 11-18-05, 03:17 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doggus
Makes me wanna cry knowing our speedster will be that worthless in 7 years time. I thought tandems would hold their value better.
A couple things to keep in mind before you reach for the tissues....

1. A Co-Motion, unlike most other tandem brands, has a lifetime frame warranty that is transferrable which is a huge selling point that can be used to justify an asking price at or even a bit above the high end reflected in the tables.
2. In seven years the replacement cost that you'd plug into the tool will be higher than the price you paid for your tandem thus, what you see reflected for a 1998 Co-Motion today is not the same figure that will be reflected for 2005 when you plug in a replacement cost in 2012. Case in point, that '98 Co-Motion had an MSRP of $2,895 back in '98. http://www.co-motion.com/Spdstrvw.html
3. Last time I checked, 46% - 53% of replacement cost for anything that is seven years old isn't exactly worthless.
4. If you ride the hell out of the tandem, you'll have most likely amortized your investment in just a few years vs. the cost for spending that amount of time pursuing any other hobby, sport, or recreational activity.
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Old 11-18-05, 04:13 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doggus
. I thought tandems would hold their value better.
Ok, wild speculation with no empirical data, but I would think used tandems would tend to depriciate a little bit quicker than a single bike because: 1) there is a limited market for tandems, 2) the fit issues for a used tandem are doubled, and 3) there's a supply of lightly used tandems from people who decided it wasn't their cup of tea, or liked it so much they upgraded.

By the way, this isn't intended as a comment on the price of the Co Motion, which seems pretty good, as described.
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Old 11-18-05, 06:14 PM   #6
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If the described co-mo had been listed in my local craigslist, I would have expected to see an asking price in the ballpark of at least DOUBLE what the original poster quoted.

I also probably would have begged, borrowed, and stolen (well, at least begged ) to bring home the described Speedster at that price. I mean, it's got Phil Wood hubs, fade paint job, described as excellent condition... sounds like a steal to me.

As reference, I currently see a Trek T-200 24 speed/bar-end/105 with an asking price of $1700, and a 1996 24 speed/bar-ends Burley Rock'n'Roll with an asking price of $1,300...

-Greg
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Old 11-18-05, 07:12 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
I would think used tandems would tend to depriciate a little bit quicker...
Basic economics... A few buyers seeking a scarce commodity, i.e., first quality tandems.

A quick check of Ebay will yield about 10 decent 2nd hand tandems, two of which are NOS from Santana's home shop -- Bud's Cyclery in Claremont, CA. The four or so others -- Kuwahara, Trek T100, Schwinn Paramount -- and the Claude Butler are almost collector items. The rest are, well, they are what they are.

As for those who tried tandems and did not "click", I suspect a good number of those tandems were long in the tooth or lower-end models that continue to show up at from garage sales, on LBS bulletin boards, and local classifieds and I suspect some of the better models are held onto by the owners in the shop that they will be used at some point in the future, e.g.,the 7 year-old tandems that have hardly been used and that show up now and again. As for upgrading teams, while many "first" tandems pass on to new teams, a lot of them are kept as second hand tandems.

Finally as for sizing, with the exception of Bilenky who offers 11 stock sizes and Cannondale with 5, most tandems are only sold in 3 (S,M,L) or 4 (S,M,L,XL) different sizes vs. the 1cm or 2cm increments found on road bikes and the stoker compartment sizes are, good or bad, fairly standard with only minor differences across frame sizes. Thus, sizing is not really more complex; in fact, it's somewhat easier... well, filled with more compromises to be accurate.
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Old 11-19-05, 12:50 AM   #8
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So call me complusive - but here are some recent Co-motion sales from Ebay - the ones listed as new were 2003-2004 vintage, but new. I purchase the Mocha which I really didn't need but the price was incredible - added to the fact I got shipping for $75 and got them to throw in a new arai kit and a bottle of touch up paint. If the bike is pretty good shape it's a great deal based upon my sale of of a 1994 Santana Visa for $1,000 bucks in late July.

2001 Co Motion Cappuccino 9/6 $2,700 nice bike - approx.30 bidders
1998 Co Motion Cappuccino 10/31 $2,650 nice paint - approx. 30 bidders
Robusta Frame Used 2005 asking $2,500 - bidding topped out at around $1800

( Dealer Clearance 2003-2004 Bikes) - New

Co Motion Supremo 8/15 $4,200
Co Motion Primera Pilot 8/14 $2,800
Co Motion Mocha 8/16 $2,200

Often a used or several year old bikes or demo's tandems are a much better deal than a new bike because they have better components - you can see this from the 1998 Speedster with the Phil Wood or Hugi Hubs. I totally disagree with the person that commented that tandems depreciate more than a single. I think I read somewhere that 3 million single bikes are sold each year in the US compared to 10 to 15,000 tandems of all sorts. Again, I am a compulsive and can readily demonstrate this.
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Old 11-19-05, 09:00 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vosyer
I think I read somewhere that 3 million single bikes are sold each year in the US compared to 10 to 15,000 tandems of all sorts.
Those tandem numbers have gone up substantially over the past few years due to the glut of low-cost imports similar to and including the ones you see all over Ebay, just as all the big box and department store single bike sales are usually included in the total US bike market numbers.

However, to get a glimpse of what the premium brand tandem market looks like you can read an article published back in 2001 by a local Oregon news outlet regarding Co-Motion:


Quote:
Because of the small size of the tandem market and the reluctance of some manufacturers to share production and sales data, reliable data for the market are not available. Some industry experts estimate that only 5,000 to 6,000 high-performance tandems are produced annually in the United States.

Co-Motion said it makes about 800 tandems and 200 single bikes a year. Burley, which also makes recumbent bikes, rainwear, and trailers for hauling kids or gear, said it produces 1,300 to 1,400 tandems a year. Green Gear said it makes about 260 tandems a year. Santana, which exclusively makes tandems, would not release its figures.
The entire article is here and linked off of Co-Motion's web site.
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/orego...1cycle16.frame

Santana's annual production numbers are protected like Coca Cola's formula, but Mr. Bill has shared enough information over the years to suggest that their numbers are in fact similar to Burley's, e.g., a few years back Santana noted that it had put over 50,000 people on tandems which, if you divided by 25 years and 2 people per tandem...

Again, the numbers are relatively small but, as small as they are, when you look at the numbers over time there are clearly a LOT of nice tandems sitting in garages or basements going unused or that are ridden by couples who ride alone and/or who aren't involved in the active tandem scene. Other evidence of just how small the market and ridership is can be found in typical enthusiast outlets where The Tandem Club of America membership remains stuck at around 1,300 (not that you get much from it aside from their oh-so-behind-the-times monthly compendium of member ride diaries and other "filler"), relatively low tandem list readership, and the inability of two tandem-related publications -- Tandem & Family Cyclist ('94 - '99) & Double (two issues in '02) -- to survive while a third has had to look to the Recumbent market for enough interest to underwrite the tandem aspects of the publication.

Last edited by TandemGeek; 11-19-05 at 09:56 AM.
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Old 11-19-05, 10:44 PM   #10
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If the Co-Mo is in as great a condition as you explained, that is one heck of a good price.
Recently sold our custom 1993 Co-Mo for $1100 with 58,000 miles on the odometer. The custom sizing limited the stoker compartment to someone under 5 ft. tall, and took a while for the right size duo to show up. However, the first couple that fit it, snapped it up.
BTW saw that couple riding that tandem on the El Tour de Tucson today, and they
told us 'we love it!'
Quality holds its price, junk ends up in the trash!

Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem
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