mrfish

Hi,

We started out on our new T2000 just before Christmas and rode it about every other day during the Christmas holidays. Bike looks great. Best bit is the chainstays as they are bigger than any I've ever seen on any single, even my Klein MTB.

First ride: On the flat - just went fast for about 5 miles

Second ride: 10 miles home mainly in the dark from picking up at the bike shop across London. Surprisingly good.

Third ride: Stoker commented that it felt like her feet were being pulled and pushed over the top and bottom of the pedal stroke, and that I tend to ride in a higher cadence than her. Swapped the ridiculous 48cm stoker bars for 42cm ones, an ditched the adjustable stem for an old ITM. Much lighter, though not noticable when riding.

Fourth ride: 20 miles. Attempted to go fast. I ended absolutely dead afterwards. Stoker merely warm. Avoided accusations of soft pedalling, but only just.

Fifth ride: 35 miles: Decided to take it a bit easy myself to avoid killing myself. Took part in our ususal club saturday ride with about 30 single bikes on wet muddy roads. I thought we were about my speed on the flat, scarily fast downhill but didn't actually go that fast as the brakes were a bit marginal I thought, and a about average of out speeds uphill. Ride went well, including riding down a 1:4 hill in the wet (the brakes were not good on that bit of the hill) and up the other side ahead of most of our group. Best bit was tricking the stoker to sprint up a short hill out of the saddle in the big ring and passing the whole group :-) She did tell me I was killing her at the top though! Thought about getting a disc brake for the back to improve ability to stop. Back home got some criticism from stoker about insensitivity and using the big chainring too much. Also discovered that that mud flies forward and up off the tyre, then stays suspended in mid air just long enough for you to eat it. Not good. Is this the Bontrager file tread tyres, the space in the Trek steel forks, or the January mix of mud and fith that allows this? Doesn't happen on my Colnago, which has so little fork clearance that leaves regularly get trapped.

Sixth ride: 25 miles: Discovered that going on the drops increases the force you're able to put on the levers, meaning it's now possible to stop reasonably quickly down hills. A bit more confident down hills. Also discovered that there's no way of adjusting brake cable tension on the Avid brakes. Tempted to buy a carbon fork and put my trusty Record calipers on. Still very impressed by the Ultegra shifting. Apart from being a bit plasticcy at the lever, the shifting is superb. It will be interesting to see how long the cassette and chain last, I can't see it being long given the stress and crummy weather we're having.

Home: We also attempted to swap places without making adjustments, but this just didn't work as my wife could barely reach the pedals, and I kept on getting bad wobbles at the back and could barely hold on to the bike.

Have any of you experienced the same issues? Should I part with cash for the brakes and forks? Also tempted by a Flite Deck computer as it's not easy to keep track of gears without stoker help.

galen_52657

My stoker never notices when I am pulling her feet...though I can feel it...

You can beat yourself to death on a tandem if you are not careful.....

Lots of speed downhill can = flying up the other side (sometimes!!)

Retro Grouch 

I'd be cautious of any fork that wasn't designed with tandem use in mind.

Flight Deck computers really come into their own on a tandem. I like the gear indicator functions and the virtual cadence is handy when coasting downhill because it gives you a clue for hitting the sweet spot when you start pedaling again.

zonatandem

Sounds like your stoker may be telling you to ride solo if you keep up with your antics!
Key to tandem riding: Communicate! Tell stoker what you are doing!
Key to tandem rding: Co-operation is a two way street. Quit the single bike mindset; Think: "WE"! An unhappy stoker/wife/girlfriend does not bode well for becoming a good 'tandem team'! Don't try to overpower stoker's pedal strokes; eventually/gradually she will improve.
With you riding as stoker, you kinda found out what it's like back there; it ain't fun if you have an inexperienced captain!
Suggest you hold off a bit on improvements/upgrades until you learn how to be a real tandem team.
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

gregm

Regarding captain's effort and being tired -- I rode a whole lot commuting with my daughter (first on a trailer cycle, then on a tandem) before starting to ride with an adult stoker. The first test ride with the new stoker, probably well under five miles all at pretty slow speed, made me EXHAUSTED -- and most of that was mental exhaustion, I think, due largely to loads of communication. It was just really hard work all around, compared to my daughter who is a total psychic back there and knows all of my moves. (I couldn't fool my daughter on the bike if I tried -- she's been stoking on a daily basis for five years now.)

Regarding accusations of soft pedaling: glad you were able to hold your tongue, which was just the right move. Hats off to ya. Remember that the stoker is extending a huge privilege to you every time she climbs onto that bike. You can *think* "soft pedaling" all you like, but what you should say to your stoker is something like, "that was awesome, thanks for a great ride." Like the effort question, do give yourselves a couple of hundred miles as you each adapt to the other's cadence preference. For example, I find that my daughter can spin quite nicely, BUT she hates rapid cadence changes from slow to fast. No biggie, eh? I can work with that.

You may also benefit from changing relative crank phase, but that seems to be a black art at best. Who knows? It may help smooth things out for you.

Regarding the brakes... perhaps you can get some more performance out of them through tuning?

Re: flight deck -- I like mine. I find I use it primarily for the gear indicator and cadence.

The "overhead" you're probably experiencing as the two of you are learning to ride one bike will decrease over time, and you'll be able to pick apart the finer details later on down the line. For now, you will probably get the best long-term investment in your tandeming partnership if you accommodate virtually of your stoker's requests regarding cadence and the like. Make stoker happy happy happy and completely comfortable, and you'll have a rock-solid trust foundation. Then you can work together to add skills and fine-tune on top of that, since your stoker knows that every time she gets on the bike, she'll be stoking for a captain who has her interest as #1 priority.

Keep riding, and thank that stoker every time for a good ride!

-Greg

gregm

One more bit to add regarding differential effort from captain or stoker. Yes, it is easy to wonder "is the stoker pushing as hard as I am?" I had an interesting take-home lesson once on a longer ride. I was talking with my stoker about ride strategy for the upcoming segments, and made reference in passing to the fact that I had been taking it kind of easy to rest/recover for what lay ahead. Stoker said, "um, I've been working really hard."

D'oh. I'd had no idea. No wonder I'd been able to take it easy.

So, it can go both ways...!

I have, however, found that both of my stokers are always good for a short-term burst of power on request when we really need it, and they always deliver more power than I'm expecting. It's totally cool -- real, actual reserve power, all ya gotta do is ask. Doesn't work like that when riding solo.

-Greg

djembob02

Braking.. I have Tektro mini V brakes, and have had excellent results even in the rain. I have had to skid to a stop to avoid a seemingly blind driver, brakes were superb. I do not have a drag brake as I rarely ride with a heavy load, although I ride a triplet, my daughter (4 years old, 30 lbs.) is usually the only one with me (Due to scheduling, my wife is only occassionally available for a ride). We don't really have difficulty keeping the bike at reasonable speeds.

I don't have a flight deck, just a simple odometer, speedometer, but I have bar-end shifters. the bar end shifters are very reliable and it is very easy to tell what gear I'm in. Due to my stokid being in the middle seat, she can't see the gears even if she could figure out gearing.

In response to the above"

"I have, however, found that both of my stokers are always good for a short-term burst of power on request when we really need it, and they always deliver more power than I'm expecting. It's totally cool -- real, actual reserve power, all ya gotta do is ask. Doesn't work like that when riding solo. "

I totally agree. While I usually don't feel much power coming from the back (again, the stoker is only 30 lbs.), when I ask for help on a hill, the little one stands up and starts cranking. I can really feel a difference. It takes a little more work to keep it balanced, but it sure helps the legs.

Michel Gagnon

Braking

Barring any extra-long hills, the brakes you have are as efficient as they would be on a single. In other words, if you depress the levers hard enough, you will be able to stop very quickly, even more brutally than on a single because the bike won't tip over. However, you need to apply much more force on the levers... which is a bit disconcerting when you switch back and forth between the single and the tandem.

Usually 1-2 blocks is all it takes to get used to the particular bike.

As you may ride a lot in the rain (London is wet, isn't it?), replace your brake pads with Kool Stop Salmon pads. They not only work better in rain or snow, but they last longer.
On the other hand, caliper brakes are worst than properly adjusted cantilever or v-brakes. Caliper brakes are good for modulation, i.e. careful slowing down or braking, whereas v-brakes tend to be on or off. Of course, since the weight of the tandem is a good modulating factor, calipers aren't the best there unless you have a real grip.

Finally, keep your speed in check. A tandem accelerates much faster when going downhill because you have more weight cutting through the same wind. But your stoker doesn't have steering control, so until she becomes a confident rider and you develop your piloting skills.

Stoker Handlebars
Those "ridiculously wide" 48-cm bars are there for a reason: to allow the hands of your stoker to fit around your rear end. Of course, if she is much shorter and sits much lower than you, then it's a non issue. For instance, my stoker uses 42-cm drop bars, but she is 9 year old and I have a 88-cm inseam so my saddle is much higher than the bars.

Pedalling cadence
You'll need to train for that one. I would suggest you take it easy. Smooth pedalling is much more important to get at this point. One important consideration I found was that it's better to start pedalling (or stop pedalling) gradually rather than abruptly. For instance, after you cost through a long downhill , start pedalling gradually until you get to the proper pace... in 3-4 turns of the cranks.

For some people, it may be a good idea to get her cranks 2-3 chainlinks before of after yours. But wait until you iron out the starting bugs.

Finally, if her cadence is much lower than yours, increase it gradually. If she rides at 50 rpm, start at 60-65 rpm for one ride, do the next one at 65-70, etc. until you both get a decent and compatible pace. Keep these "training rides" long enough to get the beat, but not too long to be tiring; 10-20 km on relatively flat terrain where you could keep a constant pace seems ideal.

Water spray
No clue on that one because I have full fenders and mudflaps. But keep in mind you are steering much more with the tandem than with the single (even when riding in a straight line). So with the single, a lot of the front-wheel spray is caught by the downtube; with the tandem, a lot goes by it when you steer and countersteer.

Flight Deck
I am aware there is or used to be an inline cable indicator. Since I use bar-end shifters, I don't have and don't need any Flight Deck because shifter position is obvious.


You might

Peak Team

Can certainly recommend an additional disk brake if it will fit the frame. Have a Hope Mono M4 disc brake on our Orbit 26 Twin, this is set up for stoker use. Also have front and back V brakes. Have been always been able to control speed or stop on rides in the Peak District. Did try an emergency stop on a flat road - with the disk on full and no other braking the bike pulled up safely and very sharply. We use the disk as the main brake with minor adjustments from the v's (or to allow the disk to cool).
There were some tricks in getting the disk to fit. Originally the Orbit was fitted with a 192 mm RST mechanical disk. The Hope hydraulic brake fitted best with a 185 mm disk and a front brake mounting (is sited on the rear). 205 mm disks were too big for the frame and ISO standard rear mounts didn't sit at the correct angle.
All worth it for long hill descents at high speed (my stoker insists on speed), safe braking and especially being able to out brake solo road bikes.
Have fun !

mrfish

Thanks for all the tips. It's good to get advice that says communicate more, which is free, rather than buy x to go faster. Thanks. I will hold off on the spending for another ten rides or so and se how we're doing by then.

ElRey

I'm 6' /175#, a very strong rider: raced in 13 World Champoinships. My stoker is about 115# and a former marathon runner. She's not a powerhouse. It's more effort for me on the tandem than an individual timetrial. BUt she does what she can and we really enjoy the work. Would I go faster with another stoker? Yes, but so what. Blaming the other person for a lack of power doesn't make a lot of sense. They're either trying hard or not, and cajoling them probably won't effect any change. Get out on some long rides and sort it out.