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  1. #1
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Co Motion Racing Tandems

    We currently have a 14 year old Burley Tandem, and are looking to upgrade to something lighter and more responsive. Given the high praise on this forum, Co Motion is the front runner.

    The Macchiato looks really cool. Although I'm concerned whether it's substantial enough at 24lbs for us. (team weight right around 350--360lbs). The bike will mostly be used for 20-40 miles rides, the occassional century, and groups rides, occasionally fast group rides.

    Anyone with experience with the Macchiato, or other upper end Co Motions?

  2. #2
    Senior Member
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    I have a Co Motion Supremo Co Pilot; team weight 300lbs. I'd be worried about frame flex on the Macchiato design. The Supremo or Robusta will give you a really quick bike without the worries. A huge step up from my 2002 Cannondale road tandem. If you were planning to just race it I might think differently.

    I've discussed building a Ti frame of the Macchiato/Paketa design, and have yet to find a builder who thinks it would be a success. They cite concerns over frame flex, weld fatigue, etc... I don't see as those concerns can be any different than they are for the Paketa/Macchiato currently.

    I'd love to hear your road test if you buy one!!!!!! Hey, where's the guy who was buying the Paketa??? We want data!!!!!!!

  3. #3
    Banned. galen_52657's Avatar
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    Lateral tubes are dropping left and right....

    Looking at the website, I did not see a team weight limit, so...since our team and your team weigh in at about the same... you buy it and see if it breaks...!

    EDIT: Somewhere, Tom Bruni is laughing...
    Last edited by galen_52657; 11-01-06 at 12:16 PM.

  4. #4
    half man - half sheep Doggus's Avatar
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    If our team weight was lower I'd be all over that bike. We come in at 367. Those Rolf wheels would probably scream uncle underneath us.
    "The cycling community is so small that it is nearly inbred." - Steve Tilford

  5. #5
    Bill G Bill G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doggus
    If our team weight was lower I'd be all over that bike. We come in at 367. Those Rolf wheels would probably scream uncle underneath us.

    We weigh in at 350LBS plus and the Rolf tandem wheels did fine on our Robusta while we were using them, we just went back to our hand built Velocity Deep V & White Ind hubs wheelset. So I sold the Rolfs to the guy that bought our Supremo and they are still doing fine, they weigh in at about 300LBS.

    Take Care,
    Bill G
    Co-Motion Custom Primera Tandem (AKA The Marrage Counselor)
    da Vinci Custom Joint Venture 700 Tandem (AKA The Marrage Therapist)

  6. #6
    Senior Member zonatandem's Avatar
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    Have put 57,000 miles on a custom Co-Motion. Have ridden several of Co-Mos top models including the Supremo and Robusta. A huge difference between any Co-Mo and any Burley we've ridden.
    Co-Motion uses an oversize special to them tubeset on the Macchiatto, according to Dwan. Have seen one at Interbike, but not ridden it. Did ride one of Tom Bruni's first steel no-lateral tandems years ago. Two guys standing hammering up a 4 story parking garage because we couldn't find any hills. Made a believer out of us. Flex? Nope.
    With your weight it should not be an issue; however see if you can get to test ride one before plunking down the $$$.
    Other folks building quality 'no-lateral' tandems: Carbon fiber: ariZona Tandems, Calfee and daVinci (the daV is built to their specs by Calfee then equipped by daV). Magnesium: Paketa. Steel: daVinci.
    Can just hear a smiling Tom Bruni say: "Told you so!"
    Pedal on TWOgether!
    Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

  7. #7
    Senior Member
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    My wife and I have a 2006 Co-mo Robusta. sounds like we do a similar type of riding..fast 30-40 mile rides and occasionally with a fast group. Previously we had a Trek T-2000 for these rides. We noticed significant improvement in our speed with the upgrade to the co-motion; not just during the first couple rides when you have those "new bike" legs.

    The biggest difference I notice is handling. The co-mo handles almost as good as my single Kestrel Talon SL. I have had experienced single cyclists on the co-mo for rides between 50-100 miles. they all comment on the handling and are surprised at how fast we can corner and still feel secure.

    I have a Paketa frame and all the components in my basement. I will build it up this winter. I look forward to comparing the Paketa to the co-mo. I post my impressions in the spring. The machiatto has piqued my interest. Hard to justify getting ride of the Robusta since we have had it less than a year...if only we could trade it in on a new machiatto.

    My wife doesn't report a difference in terms of comfort between the co-mo, our Burley Paso-D and the Trek. she doesn't care what bike she is on, she just wants to pedal.

    Jay

  8. #8
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    Machiatto Test Ride

    I was lucky enough to get the prototype Machiatto to test. I currently own a Robusta that I have been riding and racing for the past several years. My initial concerns was that without a lateral tube the bike would have too much flex and likely drop the timing chain under heavy loads. We hammered it up steep climbs out of the saddle and experienced no flex. The bike is as stiff as my Robusta.

    The handling is much more like a single than a tandem. I used multiple stokers and it worked best with an experienced stoker (as any bike would) as we could really feel the performance difference. The 6lbs of weight loss is huge! The bike climbed and descended very well.

    I have no experience with other tandems without lateral tubes but the Machiatto has no issue that I could find. I will post pictures of my new Machiatto as soon as it is finished.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
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    What is your combined team weight? What wheels were you using?

  10. #10
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    Wow, I'm ready to sell my Sovereign and order a Machiatto.
    If only I could convince my wife to spend $8K on a new tandem, not likely.

  11. #11
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    What wheels on ride?

    The hardest rides were with a combined rider weight of 300lbs. The prototype has a 130mm old so it accepts standard road wheels. This is also how my Robusta is built. On my test I rode a pair of Shimano WH-7801SL scandium wheels. Tires were Michelin Pro-Race 700x23 running 120psi front and rear. No issues at all with this set up.

    IMO - As long as you are riding decent roads and not doing extended loaded touring you will be fine with any high end quality racing wheelset. I have been riding and racing on the same wheels I use on my single for years and have not had a problem. Keep in mind that I only ride about 1-2 times a week or less on the tandem except when racing season is near.

    This doesn't mean that racing wheels are right for everyone. It does work for me though.

    FYI - I have to sell the Robusta to get the Machiatto. Wife would kill me if I tried to add another tandem to the garage.

  12. #12
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    Machiatto

    Did you ever get the Machiatto? If so, what do you think of it?

    We have a brand new Co-Mo Surpemo CoPilot that we are taking to Italy in a few weeks. When we return we will be selling it and travel cases so that we can get the Machiatto. We think we will use the lighter racing bike more often than the travel tandem.

    I would love to hear from anyone who is riding the Machiatto....or anyone who may be interested in the Supremo Co-Pilot in a few months....

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by zonatandem View Post
    Other folks building quality 'no-lateral' tandems: Carbon fiber: ariZona Tandems, Calfee and daVinci (the daV is built to their specs by Calfee then equipped by daV). Magnesium: Paketa. Steel: daVinci.
    Can just hear a smiling Tom Bruni say: "Told you so!"
    Pedal on TWOgether!
    Rudy and Kay/zonatandem
    How come I keep getting left out of these lists of builders?

    Rudy, knows I am kidding. But in all seriousness, Custom tandems are a viable alternative!

    I believe I wrote some about the open frame tandem on this list a little while back. Tom Bruni was right. Designed for the intended weight and riding style an open frame tandem works every bit as well as the direct lateral designs. It is a more efficient use of material and the current trend of building open frame tandems will, IMHO only increase.


    Ask, instead if the open frame tandem you are considering is appropriate for your riding style and weight. Do not worry about joint stress, or longevity because properly designed this is a non-issue.

    Dave Bohm
    Bohemian Bicycles
    http://www.bohemianbicycles.com

  14. #14
    Senior Member zonatandem's Avatar
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    no lateral twicer . . . drool!

    Google Bohemian . . . guarantee you'll drool over David's superb creations!

  15. #15
    Newbie mstechow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crash29 View Post
    Did you ever get the Machiatto? If so, what do you think of it?

    We have a brand new Co-Mo Surpemo CoPilot that we are taking to Italy in a few weeks. When we return we will be selling it and travel cases so that we can get the Machiatto. We think we will use the lighter racing bike more often than the travel tandem.

    I would love to hear from anyone who is riding the Machiatto....or anyone who may be interested in the Supremo Co-Pilot in a few months....
    Get in touch with us when you get to Italy, if you like. We live in the neighborhood and just returned from a trip with our Supremo along the Riviera coasts of Italy and France. We used a combination of night trains and cycling so that we were able to depart are return home on the tandem. Our experience was so positive that we are going again tomorrow evening by train - cycling for the weekend - and returning by train in time for work Monday morning!
    We learned a few tricks along the way, for instance we had a bag made for the tandem so we could get on ANY train, instead of having to wait for a train designated as a bicycle carrier.

    We also are desperate for the Machiatto, and hope to have one very very soon.

    Have a great trip!

    michael and marijana

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