Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Tandem Cycling A bicycle built for two. Want to find out more about this wonderful world of tandems? Check out this forum to talk with other tandem enthusiasts. Captains and stokers welcome!

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-11-07, 12:32 AM   #1
CactusJackSlade
DoubleDipTheChip
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The low down slow down on non-disc brakes?

Hello all, I'm a bit new to this forum and I've been seaching and poking around I am still confused about upgrading the brakes for my Trek T2000.

Currently I have the Avid "shorty" canti's but I have a hard time getting the squeel out of the front brake... and I was thinking I could get better stopping power with V brakes?... I was thinking XT or XTR.

I do remember having to use a roll-a-ma-jig thing to use V brakes on a past tandem I had years ago and I remember not liking that type of set-up - seemed touchy to adjust and the pull ration not quite right.

I DID like the fact of getting rid of the cable hanger for the center pull, pluses and minuses for both kinds I guess?

My question is basically what is the BEST brake replacement for my Avids? Go with a better quality canti, or go with V brakes and deal with a roll-a-ma-jig? Cost not the major factor, I just want to get what works THE BEST.

I currently do not have the drag brake installed, so I need these to be A+++. I do not wish to go to disc either.

Thanks in advance for any clarity to my delema.

CJS
CactusJackSlade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-07, 01:23 PM   #2
simsi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
Bikes:
Posts: 111
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What about Magura hydraulic rim brakes? I don't know much about them, but have heard good things. Maybe someone with experience will get in touch.

Ian
simsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-07, 01:51 PM   #3
TandemGeek
hors category
 
TandemGeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 7,210
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusJackSlade
My question is basically what is the BEST brake replacement for my Avids? Go with a better quality canti, or go with V brakes and deal with a roll-a-ma-jig? Cost not the major factor, I just want to get what works THE BEST.
That depends on what you define as "best". Maximum clamping power vs. fewest moving parts?

For maximum braking power, any of the long-arm linear-pull brakes, e.g., Shimano XT V-brake, Avid Arch Rival (now single digits), etc... mated to a World Class V-Brake Adapter (aka, Travel Agent) will answer the mail. However, you may still find brake squeal to be an issue after the initial set-up. Be very attentive to rim cleaning, pad alignment, and brake toe-in settings.

There are also some very good cantilever brakes on the market that can eliminate the V-brake adapter that will provide adequate stopping power for most teams. However, if you are already considering a drum brake I'm more inclined to suggest the V-brakes.

Last edited by TandemGeek; 01-11-07 at 02:43 PM.
TandemGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-07, 01:57 PM   #4
TandemGeek
hors category
 
TandemGeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 7,210
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by simsi
What about Magura hydraulic rim brakes? I don't know much about them, but have heard good things. Maybe someone with experience will get in touch.
Magura's HS-11 are awesome brakes, but they are non-compatible with the Shimano, Campy, and SRAM integrated brake/shifting systems. Thus, you would need to replace the Ultegra STI brifters with the HS-11 brake levers & calipers and a set of 9 speed bar-end shifters. Most cyclists these days who don't already use bar-end shifters are usually reluctant to give up their integrated shifting & brake systems.
TandemGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-07, 02:39 PM   #5
K&M
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Central California
Bikes:
Posts: 153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I know of a number of teams that have switched the screeching Avid Shortys that come with the Trek for Avid Single Digit 7s (with travel agent) and are much happier with them (although they can also make noise if the rim isn't clean or grit gets into the pad). A front Single Digit 7 came with our Burley and we like it much better than the Shorties on the Treks we rode previously.
K&M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-07, 04:36 PM   #6
Fenlason
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Central Maine
Bikes:
Posts: 156
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am not sure where you could find any.. but I would recommend the avid ...hmm what was it called.. the tri-align? I have them on two of my tandems. They are very adjustable and quite powerful. They do not need a travel agent.. or anything like that. I personally prefer them to any v brake I have used..and I even like them better than the magura's

I have them on a road tandem with road levers... and a moutain tandem with their mountain levers.

glenn
Fenlason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-07, 04:49 PM   #7
Old Hammer Boy
Senior Member
 
Old Hammer Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Utah
Bikes: Trek, Cannondale Tandem, Surly LHT
Posts: 1,082
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If it's only the brake squeel that bothers you, have you tried various pad formulations. Many report that the salmon colored kool-stops are the way to go for several reasons, including squeel.
Old Hammer Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-07, 10:46 PM   #8
zonatandem
Senior Member
 
zonatandem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tucson, AZ
Bikes: Custom Zona c/f tandem + Scott Plasma single
Posts: 10,858
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Cleaning rim/pads and proper toe-in will usually alleviate squealing. Switching pads, as suggested, is another solution.
For brakes we use D/A caliper on the front and Mini-MAX V-brake (No TravelAgent) on the rear. We do not use a drag brake. We are a sub-250lb tandem team.
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem
zonatandem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-07, 03:45 PM   #9
vosyer
WATERFORD22
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Seattle
Bikes: Bilenky, Co-Motion, 1969 Paramount, Waterford Adventure Cycle, Waterford rs 22, 1980 Davidson etc.
Posts: 509
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Brakes

I think I have tried most of the solutions suggested - not a v'brake fan - I have avids on one tandem and I adjusted the springs/tension level and installed inline barrel adjuster they are okay now, I have xt canti's on another with three color kool stops, dia comp tandem levers - these work awesome, and lastly I have a Paul canti-and Scott Pederson canti combination with Ultegra shifters. I recently bought a couple NOS xc-pro canti's for the next build. I think tweeking breaks for tandems is a necessary evil and a constant work in progress. We are a 350lb team who tours pretty regularrly so who knows what we weigh at times. I keep a small file with me in case I need to tune the pads from a squeak.
vosyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-07, 06:55 PM   #10
AD-SLE
Senior Member
 
AD-SLE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hopkinton, NH
Bikes: Austro Daimler-SLE, Medici Pro Strada, Trek 700 Multitrack, Specialized Hardrock, GT BMX, Adams tagalong
Posts: 114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
CactusJack, guess us newbies won't get a "right" answer. That is one thing that is rather nice about this group, you don't get folks telling us the world is flat, and any other scenario is stupid. They present experience and we have to gleen what will work for us.

Me, I was all ready to order some Dia Compe 287 v levers for my tandem to work some "trash picked" brand new Tektro (sp?) vbrakes on and move my XT Cantis to a cross bike I am building. But now I have to find out why a "travel agent" is required.

I am not sure what the rolla-ma-jig is but I suspect it was something to compensate for the different "ratio" of cable pull required. These Dia Compe levers are for drop bars and are designed to work with v-brakes....but you have to settle for bar end shifters not brifters....which on a tandem is ok with me.

....travel agent.....back to the drawing board!

You know, the think about cars is you just have one....and is is usually sorted out. This bike stuff....
AD-SLE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-07, 11:56 AM   #11
Leisesturm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 2,307
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
AD, you actually did get a "right" answer. Tandem Geek is the man AFAIC but yes, I see why his mention of a travel agent hung you up. I figure it is because he already knows what kind of levers are on the Trek and that they won't work with long arm canti's (v-brakes) without a Travel Agent. And yes, you are correct it has to do with the amount of cable pull from most drop bar levers being too short to use with V-Brakes. With drop bar levers designed for V-brakes or flat bar brake levers, no Travel Agent is necessary. And I suspect a rol-a-ma-gig is simply another manufacturers interpretation of a travel agent.

H
Leisesturm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-07, 12:18 PM   #12
TandemGeek
hors category
 
TandemGeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 7,210
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
FWIW, an Avid "roll-a-ma-gig" is a little pully that can be attached to derailleurs or brakes to reduce friction that develops between the cable & cable housing when a tight radius exists.



A World Class Travel Agent (aka, V-Brake Adapter, etc...) incorporates a stepped pulley to change the mechanical advantage of the cable (aka. cable pull or "travel") to allow an aero / drop-bar road brake lever to work with a mountain bike brake.

TandemGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-07, 02:08 AM   #13
CactusJackSlade
DoubleDipTheChip
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zonatandem
For brakes we use D/A caliper on the front and Mini-MAX V-brake (No TravelAgent) on the rear. We do not use a drag brake. We are a sub-250lb tandem team.
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

So I'm curious, if a DA caliper is sufficient for the front, why not the rear too?

... oh, and squeeling can be corrected, I'm just after the best stopping power for a 280 lb team.

If I went with V brakes (and travel agent apparently), would not the XTR's be better than the Avid Single Digit 7s?... or are the Avid's superior to the XTR's?

Oh, thanks so far everyone who chimed in!... any more idears out there?

CJS
CactusJackSlade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-07, 05:40 AM   #14
ElRey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New Jersey
Bikes: Colnago C40 HP, Aegis Trident, Cannondale tandem
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have both the Avid Single Digit 7s and XT brakes. The Avdis were better than what came on my Cannondale, but not near as nice as the XTs. The XT is going to give the same braking as the XTR, but probably not be as durable. Excellent braking and very easy to adjust.
ElRey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-07, 06:04 AM   #15
TandemGeek
hors category
 
TandemGeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 7,210
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusJackSlade
So I'm curious, if a DA caliper is sufficient for the front, why not the rear too?
DA caliper is fine for the rear if you're also using one on the front. Single-pivots are the only calipers to avoid on tandems. However, while I'm not sure if zonatandem specified rear cantilever brake bosses vs. a caliper-ready brake bridge when they designed their tandem, you will often times find tandems that were by default equipped with front & rear cantilever / linear-pull brakes using an OEM steel fork with brake bosses has been modified with an optional or aftermarket, caliper-only carbon fork. The next step in these transformations is usually the addition of a rear disc to complete the elimination of the linear-pull brakes and "racification" of the tandem.

I'll let the folks who have more extensive and recent "linear-pull brakes on their personal tandem experience" speak to the performance of Avid vs XT vs XTR.

Last edited by TandemGeek; 01-18-07 at 06:41 AM.
TandemGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-07, 07:48 PM   #16
CactusJackSlade
DoubleDipTheChip
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks for the opinions all, I've opted for XTR V brakes w/Travel Agent. I'll post my opinion about the set-up when I get it installed!

CJS
CactusJackSlade is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:41 PM.