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  1. #1
    DoubleDipTheChip
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    The low down slow down on non-disc brakes?

    Hello all, I'm a bit new to this forum and I've been seaching and poking around I am still confused about upgrading the brakes for my Trek T2000.

    Currently I have the Avid "shorty" canti's but I have a hard time getting the squeel out of the front brake... and I was thinking I could get better stopping power with V brakes?... I was thinking XT or XTR.

    I do remember having to use a roll-a-ma-jig thing to use V brakes on a past tandem I had years ago and I remember not liking that type of set-up - seemed touchy to adjust and the pull ration not quite right.

    I DID like the fact of getting rid of the cable hanger for the center pull, pluses and minuses for both kinds I guess?

    My question is basically what is the BEST brake replacement for my Avids? Go with a better quality canti, or go with V brakes and deal with a roll-a-ma-jig? Cost not the major factor, I just want to get what works THE BEST.

    I currently do not have the drag brake installed, so I need these to be A+++. I do not wish to go to disc either.

    Thanks in advance for any clarity to my delema.

    CJS

  2. #2
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    What about Magura hydraulic rim brakes? I don't know much about them, but have heard good things. Maybe someone with experience will get in touch.

    Ian

  3. #3
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CactusJackSlade
    My question is basically what is the BEST brake replacement for my Avids? Go with a better quality canti, or go with V brakes and deal with a roll-a-ma-jig? Cost not the major factor, I just want to get what works THE BEST.
    That depends on what you define as "best". Maximum clamping power vs. fewest moving parts?

    For maximum braking power, any of the long-arm linear-pull brakes, e.g., Shimano XT V-brake, Avid Arch Rival (now single digits), etc... mated to a World Class V-Brake Adapter (aka, Travel Agent) will answer the mail. However, you may still find brake squeal to be an issue after the initial set-up. Be very attentive to rim cleaning, pad alignment, and brake toe-in settings.

    There are also some very good cantilever brakes on the market that can eliminate the V-brake adapter that will provide adequate stopping power for most teams. However, if you are already considering a drum brake I'm more inclined to suggest the V-brakes.
    Last edited by TandemGeek; 01-11-07 at 01:43 PM.

  4. #4
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simsi
    What about Magura hydraulic rim brakes? I don't know much about them, but have heard good things. Maybe someone with experience will get in touch.
    Magura's HS-11 are awesome brakes, but they are non-compatible with the Shimano, Campy, and SRAM integrated brake/shifting systems. Thus, you would need to replace the Ultegra STI brifters with the HS-11 brake levers & calipers and a set of 9 speed bar-end shifters. Most cyclists these days who don't already use bar-end shifters are usually reluctant to give up their integrated shifting & brake systems.

  5. #5
    K&M
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    I know of a number of teams that have switched the screeching Avid Shortys that come with the Trek for Avid Single Digit 7s (with travel agent) and are much happier with them (although they can also make noise if the rim isn't clean or grit gets into the pad). A front Single Digit 7 came with our Burley and we like it much better than the Shorties on the Treks we rode previously.

  6. #6
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    I am not sure where you could find any.. but I would recommend the avid ...hmm what was it called.. the tri-align? I have them on two of my tandems. They are very adjustable and quite powerful. They do not need a travel agent.. or anything like that. I personally prefer them to any v brake I have used..and I even like them better than the magura's

    I have them on a road tandem with road levers... and a moutain tandem with their mountain levers.

    glenn

  7. #7
    Senior Member Old Hammer Boy's Avatar
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    If it's only the brake squeel that bothers you, have you tried various pad formulations. Many report that the salmon colored kool-stops are the way to go for several reasons, including squeel.

  8. #8
    Senior Member zonatandem's Avatar
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    Cleaning rim/pads and proper toe-in will usually alleviate squealing. Switching pads, as suggested, is another solution.
    For brakes we use D/A caliper on the front and Mini-MAX V-brake (No TravelAgent) on the rear. We do not use a drag brake. We are a sub-250lb tandem team.
    Pedal on TWOgether!
    Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

  9. #9
    WATERFORD22
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    Brakes

    I think I have tried most of the solutions suggested - not a v'brake fan - I have avids on one tandem and I adjusted the springs/tension level and installed inline barrel adjuster they are okay now, I have xt canti's on another with three color kool stops, dia comp tandem levers - these work awesome, and lastly I have a Paul canti-and Scott Pederson canti combination with Ultegra shifters. I recently bought a couple NOS xc-pro canti's for the next build. I think tweeking breaks for tandems is a necessary evil and a constant work in progress. We are a 350lb team who tours pretty regularrly so who knows what we weigh at times. I keep a small file with me in case I need to tune the pads from a squeak.

  10. #10
    Senior Member AD-SLE's Avatar
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    CactusJack, guess us newbies won't get a "right" answer. That is one thing that is rather nice about this group, you don't get folks telling us the world is flat, and any other scenario is stupid. They present experience and we have to gleen what will work for us.

    Me, I was all ready to order some Dia Compe 287 v levers for my tandem to work some "trash picked" brand new Tektro (sp?) vbrakes on and move my XT Cantis to a cross bike I am building. But now I have to find out why a "travel agent" is required.

    I am not sure what the rolla-ma-jig is but I suspect it was something to compensate for the different "ratio" of cable pull required. These Dia Compe levers are for drop bars and are designed to work with v-brakes....but you have to settle for bar end shifters not brifters....which on a tandem is ok with me.

    ....travel agent.....back to the drawing board!

    You know, the think about cars is you just have one....and is is usually sorted out. This bike stuff....

  11. #11
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    AD, you actually did get a "right" answer. Tandem Geek is the man AFAIC but yes, I see why his mention of a travel agent hung you up. I figure it is because he already knows what kind of levers are on the Trek and that they won't work with long arm canti's (v-brakes) without a Travel Agent. And yes, you are correct it has to do with the amount of cable pull from most drop bar levers being too short to use with V-Brakes. With drop bar levers designed for V-brakes or flat bar brake levers, no Travel Agent is necessary. And I suspect a rol-a-ma-gig is simply another manufacturers interpretation of a travel agent.

    H

  12. #12
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    FWIW, an Avid "roll-a-ma-gig" is a little pully that can be attached to derailleurs or brakes to reduce friction that develops between the cable & cable housing when a tight radius exists.



    A World Class Travel Agent (aka, V-Brake Adapter, etc...) incorporates a stepped pulley to change the mechanical advantage of the cable (aka. cable pull or "travel") to allow an aero / drop-bar road brake lever to work with a mountain bike brake.


  13. #13
    DoubleDipTheChip
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    Quote Originally Posted by zonatandem
    For brakes we use D/A caliper on the front and Mini-MAX V-brake (No TravelAgent) on the rear. We do not use a drag brake. We are a sub-250lb tandem team.
    Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

    So I'm curious, if a DA caliper is sufficient for the front, why not the rear too?

    ... oh, and squeeling can be corrected, I'm just after the best stopping power for a 280 lb team.

    If I went with V brakes (and travel agent apparently), would not the XTR's be better than the Avid Single Digit 7s?... or are the Avid's superior to the XTR's?

    Oh, thanks so far everyone who chimed in!... any more idears out there?

    CJS

  14. #14
    Senior Member
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    I have both the Avid Single Digit 7s and XT brakes. The Avdis were better than what came on my Cannondale, but not near as nice as the XTs. The XT is going to give the same braking as the XTR, but probably not be as durable. Excellent braking and very easy to adjust.

  15. #15
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CactusJackSlade
    So I'm curious, if a DA caliper is sufficient for the front, why not the rear too?
    DA caliper is fine for the rear if you're also using one on the front. Single-pivots are the only calipers to avoid on tandems. However, while I'm not sure if zonatandem specified rear cantilever brake bosses vs. a caliper-ready brake bridge when they designed their tandem, you will often times find tandems that were by default equipped with front & rear cantilever / linear-pull brakes using an OEM steel fork with brake bosses has been modified with an optional or aftermarket, caliper-only carbon fork. The next step in these transformations is usually the addition of a rear disc to complete the elimination of the linear-pull brakes and "racification" of the tandem.

    I'll let the folks who have more extensive and recent "linear-pull brakes on their personal tandem experience" speak to the performance of Avid vs XT vs XTR.
    Last edited by TandemGeek; 01-18-07 at 05:41 AM.

  16. #16
    DoubleDipTheChip
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    Thanks for the opinions all, I've opted for XTR V brakes w/Travel Agent. I'll post my opinion about the set-up when I get it installed!

    CJS

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