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  1. #1
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    2001 Cannondale RT1000 White?

    I am interested in buying a 2001 Cannondale RT1000 Tandem. The seller says it is a 24 speed and the color is white. I cannot verify that the 2001 RT1000 came in White. Was white use for an earlier model year? Whay would be a good price for this tandem in excellent condition?

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    Hi,

    I have an RT1000 from either 2000 or 2001 and it is white! Mine is 27 speed though, not 24 speed. I'm pretty sure both the 2000 and the 2001 RT1000 is 27 speed. Check the bike archives on the cannondale web site. A fair price would be between 1500 to 1750 USD.

    Regards Gerben

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    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macarlson
    I am interested in buying a 2001 Cannondale RT1000 Tandem. The seller says it is a 24 speed and the color is white. I cannot verify that the 2001 RT1000 came in White.
    Based on C'dales specs and what you're describing, I believe you're looking at 1998 RT1000. They also offered a 1999 RT1000 in what they called Lightning White/White Pearl Hyperhighlight for 1999 but this was the new CAAD7 frame design with 9 speed. The 2000 RT1000 was only offered in silver or blue (RT3000 in Red). The 2001 RT1000 was only offered in dark blue or red (RT3000 in goldenrod).

    For a definitive answer on the age of any used Cannondale where the specs are in question, ask the seller to provide you with the serial number (its located on the bottom of the left chainstay)... Then call Cannondale Tech Support and ask them to decode it: 1-800-245-3872

    If it were a single bike I'm pretty sure it could still be decoded using C'dale's standard Serial Number sequence (see quoted text from Sheldon Brown's website below).

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown's Website

    Cannondale

    Serial number code: first two digits are the size, next 6 are date of manufacture, remainder are unit number. For instance: SN#54021787121 indicates a 54 cm frame, built on February 17, 1987, #121.
    However, off hand I seem to recall that they use a slightly different serial number sequence for tandems, perhaps using letters for sizing on the newer tandems that throws off the standard tables. In the "old days", the first four numbers were the frame size, followed by month/year, then the sequence number, e.g., a 98 MT3000 with serial number 18160398102 = 18" captain / 16" stoker built in March 98 with the sequence number of 102. Our only C'dale tandem was a '98 MT3000.


    Quote Originally Posted by macarlson
    Whay would be a good price for this tandem in excellent condition?
    As for the value, while pricing for used bicycles can be fairly subjective, you may find the information and tool at my Website to be of some help in formulating a fair offer for a second hand tandem.

    http://www.thetandemlink.com/usedhome.html

    The tool works off of fair market value and requires the use of a current replacement value as well as the correct model year for the tandem you're trying to evaluate.

    A current year Cannondale RT1000 is better equipped compared to an older model RT1000 (it's more of an RT3000 / RT1000 hybrid), so something a bit less than current retail price (-10%), plus the value of any options added to the bike would form the replacement value to use in my tool. When I last checked, the '06 RT1000 was selling for about $2,475 at www.tandemseast.com, so about $2250 might be a good starting point for a "notional" RT1000 replacement value without an Avid BB disc brakes and something less than Ultegra / XT / DT hubset level componentry.
    Last edited by TandemGeek; 01-31-07 at 08:39 AM.

  4. #4
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    I would strongly suggest that you buy a new tandem if the used price is 90% of new. Components wear out quickly on a tandem and they're expensive to replace. TGeek's pricing guide may be reasonable for tandem stuff, but I wouldn't pay more than half of new cost were it a single bike, and have done so many times for all sorts of components and complete bikes.

    I bought a "NEW" 2003 Cdale road tandem for $1750 18 months ago.

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    Some may have paid 90% of new price for a used 2001 tandem. We do not see that happening very often, particularly on a low end quality tandem. Even if the frame has a life time waranty most components come with a one year.... it does not make any sense.

  6. #6
    Senior Member shider's Avatar
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    I bought a new 2004 Cannondale tandem 9 months ago (had been hanging in the bike shop for a long time) for ~ $1750.

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    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElRey
    TGeek's pricing guide may be reasonable for tandem stuff, but I wouldn't pay more than half of new cost were it a single bike, and have done so many times for all sorts of components and complete bikes. I bought a "NEW" 2003 Cdale road tandem for $1750 18 months ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by cornucopia72
    Some may have paid 90% of new price for a used 2001 tandem. We do not see that happening very often, particularly on a low end quality tandem. Even if the frame has a life time waranty most components come with a one year.... it does not make any sense.
    I would agree with the observations of both ElRey & cornucopia72... In fact, if you plugged in the equivalent current MSRP numbers to my tool the value ranges under two different age scenarios would be more like $925 to $1084 for a '98 model to $1079 to $1264 for an '01. As a buyer, ElRey's and Shider's comments on "actual price paid" for new or NOS tandems would also suggest that the current replacement cost / fair market could be even lower.

    Relative to depreciation, what I found as I worked to develop my tables was that the only reason tandems have historically held their value better than single bikes is the old law of supply and demand: there just aren't that many tandems around and second-hand buyer pricing seem willing to pay proportionately more for a used tandem than a used single. It's also worthwhile to note that, with the exception of Co-Motion, lifetime frame warranties are only valid for the first owner which is a fairly big driver in the nearly instant 15% depreciation hit that a new tandem takes.

    Finally, in terms of current fair market values, it's noteworthy that Cannondale effectively depressed the resale value of all their tandems produced before '04 when they scaled back their offerings from a full-line of tandems (entry-mid-high) to a single road and off-road offering at what is entry-level pricing for Co-Motion and Santana. The aforementioned prices paid cited by ElRey and Shider also reflect that same depressed cost basis for the blow-out pricing that dealers will offer to unload unsold Cannondale tandem inventory. These factors all influence that "replacement cost" number that drives the pricing table and used Burley's are somewhat in the same boat as C'dale given their failed last ditch, super-low pricing strategy on tandems before exiting the market.
    Last edited by TandemGeek; 01-30-07 at 04:23 PM.

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    Sorry Tgeek: I misread your post- 1000 words/minute and bad eyes Thought you were implying that $2250 was what your formula spat out as a price on late-model used Cdale. Sounds like the numbers are actually pretty reasonable.

    Keep in mind I paid $1750 from a guy I know for years who had one in my size sitting around for too long. Long enough they don't carry tandems anymore.

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    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElRey
    Sorry Tgeek: I misread your post- 1000 words/minute and bad eyes Thought you were implying that $2250 was what your formula spat out as a price on late-model used Cdale. Sounds like the numbers are actually pretty reasonable. Keep in mind I paid $1750 from a guy I know for years who had one in my size sitting around for too long. Long enough they don't carry tandems anymore.
    No worries. I tend to be a bit verbose so it's not always easy to separate the wheat from the chaff.

    However, it is somewhat interesting (and reassuring) to note that when you pump in a replacement value of ~$2,400 for the NOS '03 and '04 Cannondale's that you and Shider purchased in '05 and '06, respectively, the tool spits a high-end (good as new) value of $1,764 when you back-date the "current year" to when they were purchased.

    Again, the tool isn't perfect, but when used carefully it does seem to get the numbers in the ballpark on a fairly consistent basis.

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    ... and there are far fewer used tandems and parts being offered for sale: more of a sellers market than single bike stuff.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElRey
    I would strongly suggest that you buy a new tandem if the used price is 90% of new. Components wear out quickly on a tandem and they're expensive to replace. TGeek's pricing guide may be reasonable for tandem stuff, but I wouldn't pay more than half of new cost were it a single bike, and have done so many times for all sorts of components and complete bikes.
    I am finding the used Tandem bike market to be a sellers market once you go just slightly above the entry level bikes. TGeek's table is right on the money, perhaps because sellers use it to price just as much as buyers, so TGeek essentially has created the market!, and sellers that I negotiated with turned me down and claim to have sold for full asking price.

    However I question the sanity of paying 75-85% percent of a new price, particularly since you can find good discounts in new bikes with warranty if you go for models in stock at the shops. Just the risk of something going wrong in the transaction, bike shop fees for packing, and that sort of thing are worth the 15 %. I am also looking for 50-60 % and I am not finding it on anything that I would care to buy and ride. The only thing in favor of the used market is the value of the accesories. You can rack up a nice little sum in accesories (travel cases, racks, cycle computers, drum brake, pump, bags, roof racks, pedals, saddles etc) and a bike with lots of quality accesories does not fetch much higher prices than a stripped down bike. Yet finding the right size bike with the right combination of accessories is very hard to do.

    Where you do find deeper discounts and have more negotiating leverage is on entry level bikes, things like a 99 Trek T100 (our current bike), bikes which most of the people in this forum would not consider riding, or good bikes with dated technologies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanti Andia
    I am finding the used Tandem bike market to be a sellers market once you go just slightly above the entry level bikes. TGeek's table is right on the money, perhaps because sellers use it to price just as much as buyers, so TGeek essentially has created the market!, and sellers that I negotiated with turned me down and claim to have sold for full asking price.
    Does this means that you did not get the Co-Mo with the dings and SS couplers?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cornucopia72
    Does this means that you did not get the Co-Mo with the dings and SS couplers?
    Nope, went for full price 4650, '06 Co-mo Speedster with S&S and two travel cases, dings and all. Still in the market and close to giving up and ordering a new Speedster custom sized. Saw a Cappucino with S&S go for $ 4000!. That has a discontinued Soft Ride beam so I think it is off TGeek's table.

    Then one fellow American selling an S&S Burley said that he was not comfortable dealing with foreigners! I could not believe that one. I thought "The Ugly American" was a dying breed.

    Meanwhile another fellow American is wants to send the police after the seller of a Rodriguez who did not deliver in spite of payment.

    I would sugest that unless the money for bike exchange is done in person, use a reputable Tandem shop for inspection and as a sort of Escrow, seller ships the bike to a shop, shop inspects and adds accesories, ships bike when seller receives his money and bills buyer for accesories and service. I have not tested this, don't know if a bike shop and the seller would agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanti Andia
    Nope, went for full price 4650, '06 Co-mo Speedster with S&S and two travel cases, dings and all. Still in the market and close to giving up and ordering a new Speedster custom sized. Saw a Cappucino with S&S go for $ 4000!. That has a discontinued Soft Ride beam so I think it is off TGeek's table.

    Then one fellow American selling an S&S Burley said that he was not comfortable dealing with foreigners! I could not believe that one. I thought "The Ugly American" was a dying breed.

    Meanwhile another fellow American is wants to send the police after the seller of a Rodriguez who did not deliver in spite of payment.

    I would sugest that unless the money for bike exchange is done in person, use a reputable Tandem shop for inspection and as a sort of Escrow, seller ships the bike to a shop, shop inspects and adds accesories, ships bike when seller receives his money and bills buyer for accesories and service. I have not tested this, don't know if a bike shop and the seller would agree.
    You know? There is a very nice Calfee Tetra Tetra with Ti SS that Gold Country Ciclery had for test rides that is up for sale. We have seen the bike and it is a beauty! This is the link: http://www.tandems-recumbents.com/specials.html. Rick is a trustworthy fellow. If the bike would fit you (size and $$$) it would not be a bad deal. I believe it comes with the cases and has very nice components and it is practically new. It is a large frame but your stoker may not need a suspension post with this frame.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by cornucopia72
    You know? There is a very nice Calfee Tetra Tetra with Ti SS that Gold Country Ciclery had for test rides that is up for sale. We have seen the bike and it is a beauty! This is the link: http://www.tandems-recumbents.com/specials.html. Rick is a trustworthy fellow. If the bike would fit you (size and $$$) it would not be a bad deal. I believe it comes with the cases and has very nice components and it is practically new. It is a large frame but your stoker may not need a suspension post with this frame.
    Oh yes! I had seen that, but that is way above budget, and we are actually looking for more of a touring rig, with a fork that will take front panniers, rather than a Ferrari. But we do like speed, so we need a compromise. So far the Co-mo Speedster or a even a Primera seemed like the proper bikes.

  16. #16
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanti Andia
    ... TGeek's table is right on the money, perhaps because sellers use it to price just as much as buyers, so TGeek essentially has created the market!, and sellers that I negotiated with turned me down and claim to have sold for full asking price.
    Given how obscure and relatively unknown as my "tool" is outside of this and the Tandem@Hobbes community, I'm thinking it still reflects the market... but thanks for the bump. Hopefully it will never become used like the Kelly Blue Book (KBB) which clearly favors dealers with its low-ball trade-in values and jacked-up retail prices or NADA which is also a bit skewed. As for folks who sell their second hand tandems at premium prices, for every seller who gets a high return there is at least one other seller or dealer who lets one go for a song. Timing's everything and the sellers and buyers who have time on their side usually get the best deals vs. impulse buyers and sellers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Xanti Andia
    ... things like a 99 Trek T100 (our current bike)
    For future reference, the last model year under which the T100 & T200 tandems were sold by Trek was 1998. Harkening back to the OP's situation and that of Gerben, always verify model years by having the serial numbers decoded unless you can clearly "date" the model year of a stock production tandem by its original color or components.
    Last edited by TandemGeek; 02-02-07 at 12:27 PM.

  17. #17
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    Interesting posts re. prices.

    My experience is that there is a wide spread of tandem pricing, from those posting in my view unrealistically high prices down to those who are letting good bikes go for a song. I am surprised that people can sell second hand bikes for 80% of new RRP and look forward to selling my tandem one day! I wouldn't buy a second hand bike at this price for the following reasons:
    • RRP on a new bike is always a starting point for price negotiation. Our LBS does 10% for club members and often exchanges parts from their magic parts bin for very little cost which is worth a few % more
    • Buying last year's model from new is often available with a good discount, maybe 20% or more
    • History and maintenance quality of a second hand bike is normally not verifiable. This isn't such an issue if you are experienced as most mechanical components are pretty straightforward. However you just can't tell if carbon parts have been impact damaged or whether lightweight components, particularly bars and stems have had an easy life or not.
    • A second hand transaction is much more involved than buying a bike from a store on a credit card (which btw often offers 1% money back)
    • Warranty often stops with original owner


    For example I got a Trek T2000 2005 model in early 2006 for 1400. RRP was 1800, which is a 22% discount. I also got 1.5% money back on the credit card. New T2000s cost a lot more, as they have carbon forks. I would be very happy to sell it to you for 85% of RRP! Bottom line is that if you're prepared to do some research and wait for the bike you want you should be able to get a deal.

  18. #18
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrfish
    For example I got a Trek T2000 2005 model in early 2006 for 1400. RRP was 1800, which is a 22% discount. I also got 1.5% money back on the credit card. New T2000s cost a lot more, as they have carbon forks. I would be very happy to sell it to you for 85% of RRP!
    And, for sh*ts and giggles, if I run your numbers into my table (see thumbnail below), i.e., 2005 model tandem with RRP of 1800 (GBP) purchased as NOS In 2006, you end up with a high-end price target of 1438 (GPB). Note: Even though the tool reflects US Dollars ($ / USD), it really doesn't matter what currency is used as everything should be linear.

    With regard to selling it for 85% RRP, the only time a buyer should consider offering that much would be on a "good as new" used tandem that is being sold during the same year it was produced. For example: a 2007 T2000 purchased in Jan '07 and ridden enough times for the stoker to discover their captain had unrealistic expectations and a lack of patience that was then put on the market in April '07 "might" be worth 85% of its '07 RRP if it was still in pristine condition. If they held on to the tandem for two years before selling it, the fair market value would at best be not more than 74% of the replacement value for an equivalent tandem model in 2009.

    Again, these are merely guidelines for depreciation that were benchmarked by watching the second hand tandem market for 5 years and doing periodic verification checks thereafter to see if the tables are still valid. And, as noted on the tables and my used tandem web page, the narrative that goes along with the tool is probably the more important piece of information for a tandem buyer or seller as it gets into the more subjective issues that influence the pricing vs. fair market value of tandems.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by TandemGeek; 02-02-07 at 12:29 PM.

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