DBC Steve

I think it is the tandem@hobbs listserv that had a recent running discussion about how to deal with a chasing dog. This morning a dog darted in front of the lead tandem in a group of three sending John to one hospital in an ambulance and Mary to another hospital by helicopter. The dog was running along side our three tandems, about 20-30 feet to our right through an orchard, and suddenly with no warning took a sharp left turn into John and Mary's front wheel. We think it was riders coming the other way that the dog noticed, and decided to chase them instead. There was no warning, and the dog had to jump a ditch to get to the road -- it still happened so fast we didn't see it coming. Even in retrospect, we're not sure what we could have done -- maybe slow down or stop, but who knows. We were going 20-22 mph at the time.

John is ok, but hurts all over. Mary -- we'll see, but she is alert with no obvious breaks. She was still in the ER when we left the hospital two hours ago. Both probably have concussions of one severity or another. Oddly enough the stoker took the worst of it -- probably due to the captain's split-second attempt to turn away from the dog. Where's the dog? Probably 2 counties away and still running.

Both will need new helmets. Their helmets will be used as examples of why we wear them. The support from our local fire department and UC Davis Life Flight was outstanding.

regomatic

We had a near-identical incident happen right in front of us two weeks ago. It was frightening to see our friends hit the ground hard as we swerved to avoid hitting them. Both hit their heads and the stoker was knocked unconscious for 2-3 minutes, helmets certainly saved them from severe head injury.

We’ve only been chased a few times, always by dogs that were chasing us from behind and so far we’ve been able to out-sprint them. I‘ve replayed our friends accident in my mind a hundred times and I don’t think we would have avoided it either if we had been the one’s up front.

I‘ve changed my thoughts about dog strategy after seeing it happen though, and think that if the same scenario were presented to me now, and if I could react fast enough, as soon as I realized the dog had any chance to overtake us, we would be safer to slam on the brakes immediately. Even a very large pit bull, as we saw that day, is less scary than a trip to the hospital for both of us.

Our captain friend is still very severely bruised and mostly pissed that he doesn’t heal as fast as he did in his younger days. The stoker spent two nights in the hospital because of a small amount of blood showing on the MRI of her head. She’s still sore but not as bruised as the captain.

The dog problem is not unique to tandem riders, I’ve heard of single riders taken down just as bad. What are some good strategies or deterrents that others have used?

My best story was our first tandem 3 day “tour” at the Suwannee Bike Fest in rural North Central Florida. On our first day we found ourselves with a group of about a dozen singles who had all ridden there before. A dog goes after us and we all start sprinting off and we hear behind us “KAPOW”. And the dog halted in his tracks. One of the guys behind us had what he said was a “starter pistol” but he put it back in his pocket with out showing it. I suspect that the first shot was the warning shot and the second would have not been aimed in the air. He used it again with similar results twice more during the course of the ride.

DBC Steve

regomatic -- thanks for the comments. Attached are two pics -- one of John's helmet and the other a photo of Mary going into the helicopter. Report from hospital is:

1. She will be in the ICU 1-2 days.
2. She is no longer a "dog person".
3. lots of bruises, a few broken facial bones, but sense of humor coming back.

regomatic

Ouch!

I think our friends avoided the facial injuries and more road rash because of the size of the dog. It was like hitting a wall. They decelerated to near zero immediately and just fell over. When that happens, you still fall over hard.

stormchaser

I don't think trying to turn is good. Probably better to keep the bike straight.

We fell over the other day as we turned up a very steep hill and the chain dropped to the inside, we stopped instantly and I couldn't unclip fast enough, nary a bruise but the pride took a beating.

zonatandem

At one tandem event, a stoker used a starter pistol to stop a dog in his assault mode. Scared the hell out of a few of us.
Turning toward the assaulting dog, if possible + shouting/yelling has worked with some dogs for us.
Have been chased by anything from a dachshund to a St.Bernard. A goat and geese and coyote and a divebombing angry bird can be added to that menagerie. If you invade animals' territory they will defend it!
. . and yes, have cracked a helmet . . . it's a cheap investment.
We wish John/Mary a speedy recovery.

transam

Wow! Your story brings back memories of an accident I had with a dog 4 years ago. I was riding early Sunday morning by myself when a large Akita darted from the side of the road right in front of me. I hit him broad side, went over the handlebars, hit my head on the pavement and was knocked unconscious for a while. The injuries included a shattered collar bone, 3 broked ribs, a punctured lung and a herniated disc in my back. I spent 5 days in the hospital and had to endure 3 operations. My helmet definitely saved my life.

Fortunately I knew where the dog came from so was eventually able to recover my losses along with a nice settlement for pain and suffering. It took our lawyer a year and a half to get the settlement, but the wait was worth it.

Can you find the dog's owner? If yes, then there is a good chance your friends can get reimbursment for the damages.

DBC Steve

Thanks all for the supportive comments and suggestions. John and Mary are doing better. I've received a number of comments from Davis Bike Club members who often ride down that road, and they've never seen a dog. It has a wheat field on one side and orchards on the other -- no house for miles. It may have simply been lost or wandering.

I recall the tandem@hobbes discussion about whether to say "bad dog" or "good dog" or "hey YOU" or any other phrases that might come to mind or may have been successful in the past. Although we saw the dog as the second tandem in the group, John and Mary didn't see it at all. Mary's comment in retrospect was "What dog?"

One good thing that has come out of this is I know a lot of cyclists who don't tighten their helmets, figuring just strapping it on is good enough. That includes my stoker, so I was told this afternoon! Again, thanks for the comments and ideas.

FoC

I just called our local police dept yesterday to ask them about dogs and what is my legal right as far as keeping them away from us when riding.
Personally, the next dog that starts chasing us when riding wont be going home again.
Im really sick and tired of worthless, irresponsible dog owners letting their beasts run about chasing bikes, children and old women. We had an ill mannered Rott accost a 70ish year old woman right in front of my house three weeks ago. The owner never came out to get the dog who was running the streets.

FoC

Its good to hear they are doing well

Ive considered also carrying a pack of cheap hot dogs to distract the dog with.
Im still contemplating whether or not lethal force will be the next step if the dog persists.

FoC

Well, come on, I ride on the street. The street ISNT the dogs territory but MINE as a man who pays his taxes for those streets.
Dogs need to be in a fence or on a leash.
If they arent and they attack a person outside their own home or yard, they need to be put down and the owner needs to face jail time for felonious assault.

Red Rider

OMG! I'm so sorry! Please pass along my wishes for their full & speedy recoveries.

This is why I want a squirt gun loaded with ammonia.

I wish everyone was a responsible pet owner.

Red Rider

I have no idea what the local laws are as regards favoring cyclists.

In NJ 30 yrs. ago I had just my trusty Raleigh for all my transportation needs. I lived in the country (stop laughing! NJ has country!) and a dog whose house I passed 4 times a day to & from work always came out to snap & bark mere inches from my right foot. I got a squirt gun & filled it with ammonia. I aimed his massive gaping maw. I may have missed & hit his eyes or nose a time or two...after a few passes he'd still come barking & snapping, but stayed several feet behind me. Good dog.

That doesn't help John & Mary but it may help the rest of us, until dog owners sac up & assume responsibility for their animals & their animals' actions.

TandemGeek

Submitted by Team Godzilla's captain to the March 2003 Tailwind Tandem Club Newsletter

waterrockets 

Glad everyone is ok or at least stable from all these stories. Sorry to hear about all the troubles.

I've left two dogs lying on the roadside from my solo bike. For one of them, I pulled my u-lock off my commuter rack every time I went by this Rottie's house. One time he got too close and I cracked him on the head with the lock-end. He went down and I kept going. Never saw him again.

The other dog was a German Shepherd chasing my wife and I on our solos. She's not as fast as me, or I'd have just sprinted. Instead, I told her to go, and I stayed back, hoping the dog would go for me. Well, he ran right past me toward my wife. I sprinted up to him, unclipped, and kicked him on the head with my cleat. He skidded to a stop on his chin and didn't get up.

Lately I've had really good luck just stopping, dropping to the small ring, and sprinting after the dog. They run away faster than anything I've seen. I couldn't pull that off on our tandem though. Luckily we're still just riding around the neighborhood and Veloway on the tandem, and have no real dog issues in those areas.

transam

I agree!!!

In our neck of the woods there are leash laws that prohibit dogs from running loose. My thoughts are if the dog is loose it's fair game for halt, squirt gun loaded with ammonia, frame pump, rocks, pellet gun or what ever it takes to stop the danger. Also, the dog owner is responsible for all damages incurred if an accident occurs with a loose dog.

RickinFl

I've had a long standing fantasy of teaching my stoker to use a slingshot- one of the type with the velcro pouch that can be loaded with BBs or something like that. Sort of a tailgunner for dogs. My current stoker is blind, so the results would probably be chaotic.

In by gone days, there were pistols made for cyclists that fired "dog rounds". This was probably a small caliber round just big enough to dispatch a bow-wow without doing too much damage to bystanders. I've always thought that ratshot in a compact .22 might be good for dogs, but haven't tried it. Gun laws are a bit convoluted and strange.

Rick

cornucopia72

In the area where we live, a good % of crashes involve dogs and other domestic animals. A few months back, a large cat darted in front of a pace line. The animal hit the front wheel of a rider, clipping him. Other riders scramble not to fall. The poor guy is just getting his confidence and shape back after a long recovery with a broken collar bone.

When we go out by ourselves, Rocio usually carries a Halt canister. The dogs that she succesfully squirts in the eyes no longer chase us. On the contrary, they see us coming and they go back to their yards in a hurry. For obvious reasons, we never use the Halt when ridding with a group.

djembob02

I haven't tried any of the deterants such as ammonia or Halt, but after reading all of these on BF as well as hobbes, I'm thinking I better be prepared.

Currently, my strategy is to slow way down. I have found that the many dogs who have chased me are far less likely to chase if I am going slow. I have not been bit yet, or ran into, but then again, I've only been riding for 2 years.

Whether big or small. As soon as I see a dog not a leash, I slow down. Then I usually pass with little more than a look.

zonatandem

Our statement "if you invade animals' territory they'll defend it" is definitely true.
It does not mean that you can't fight back!
While some towns/areas have leash laws, many do not.
When dogs chase/attack your 'dogdrenalin' better kick in good! Sometimes you can pedal away but the dog thinks you are afraid and will persue; having aimed the tandem/bike at a charging dog changes the battle lines, he now becomes the persued!
While there is no sure-fire way to avoid dogs, there are a multitude of ways to break up their attention. Yelling 'get off the couch' sometimes works, but you'll never know unless you try it!

twilkins9076

For what it's worth, I have been concerned for a while now, that one of the biggest dangers facing cyclists/tandem teams is the occasional loose dog that we all encounter. While we have never been bitten, the unpredictable nature of the animals is difficult to deal with, and I certainly don't want to crash with my stoker because of a dog.

We had a stupid border collie start chasing us last spring along our morning route. Every time it would see us, it would do it's best to annoy us and no amount of yelling or water squirts would make the dog give up it's game. Unfortunately, as time passed, the dog got more and more bold until we finally hit it on our tandem at about 20 mph. The stupid animal tried to circle in front of us, and our front wheel rolled right over it's hind leg just below the hip and the back wheel passed over the same leg between the knee joint and the ankle. As we rode away, we could see the animal limping away on three legs. We never saw the dog again, and concluded that we had broken it's leg and it's owners had put it down rather than pay the vet bill. We felt very fortunate that we had managed to keep the Burley upright (by luck..not superior bike handling skills), and bought a can of Halt for next time. We've not had to use it yet.

On the other hand, over Thanksgiving weekend, a stinking little dachshund darted out from behind a parked car as I was entering our subdivision after a ride on my single. I literally didn't see the thing coming, and had no time to react before it was under my front wheel after it misjudged it's own abilities. I crashed hard and broke my collar bone. Unfortunately, the dog was barely scraped and certainly didn't suffer as much for it's foolishness as I did.

After that crash, Pam and I discussed how we could handle future encounters with dogs, and concluded that about the only thing we can do is to be observant, and when we have the chance, try and hit them in the face with our Halt. We decided that there is always going to be some element of risk in cycling, and that animals are part of that risk. In spite of that, we are going to continue enjoying our sport, and keep our fingers crossed that we don't have any more incidents like those two.

zonatandem

In our decades of tandeming, stoker Kay was bitten once. Dog's tooth scraped her leg but did not puncture skin. This is way back in the 70s when we were still pedaling IP. Since we've been pedaling OOP she has not been bitten again. Coincidence? Or do those OOP goofy-footed spinning legs confuse the canines?

CGinOhio

IMO, each situation (and dog) is different. If dog has the angle on you, best to stop pedaling (like most predators they go for movement) and brake hard to stop. Chase off said dog. With force if necessary. This also discourages dog from going after next cyclist. Most are not truly vicious. I would be very hesitant to recommend swinging legs, pumps, or other items at a dog while moving. Especially for newer cyclists. The risk of losing control and falling is much more likely caused by the cyclist(s) themselves. Most cyclist, even very experienced ones, don't have the handling skills to pull off a good swing and still control their bike. If you do have the bike skills of Stewart O'Grady, then go ahead and swing, kick, or headbutt the beast, otherwise best to keep all limbs connected to the bike. Tandemgeek may have had reason to employ exceptional force for his defence given the gauntlet he runs. HOWEVER, shooting a pellet gun while riding is has got to be a LAST RESORT, IMHO. Only one good thing can occur (repel dog) using this method, but I can envision a hundred bad things can go wrong.
No, I'm not a dog owner or animal lover per se. But I have experience with guns, and shooting even low velocity pellets/BBs in residential areas while on a bike is bad news.

Hermes

Just in case you needed it; one more reason to OOP.

cornucopia72

One this we do and encourage others to do is to call out dogs even if they don't seem ready to chase. It is the same as "glass!", "gravel!", "car back!", "tracks!" etc. It just helps to have eveyone in the group aware of a potential hazard.