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Tandem Cycling A bicycle built for two. Want to find out more about this wonderful world of tandems? Check out this forum to talk with other tandem enthusiasts. Captains and stokers welcome!

View Poll Results: How Many Sprockets or Gears Out Back?
One (1): Coaster Brake, Single Speed, Fixed Gear, etc... 0 0%
Five (5) 0 0%
Six (6) 3 4.17%
Seven (7) 4 5.56%
Eight (8) 8 11.11%
Nine (9) 45 62.50%
Ten (10) 14 19.44%
Sachs / Shimano Nexus Hub 1 1.39%
Rohloff Hub 2 2.78%
Other 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-05-07, 05:42 AM   #1
TandemGeek
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How Many Cogs Y'all Running?

Just curious as to how many freewheel / cassette sprockets (aka, cogs) or rear gear positions (internally shifting hubs) the various readers on the forum have on their tandems.

I've listed 10 of the more common configurations and would also welcome feedback on any problems folks have encountered if they have moved up from say 8 speed to 9 speed or 9 speed to 10 or perhaps switched over to a Rohloff hub.

For those running 10 speed, can you recap the components on your set-ups and comment on how well they work?

1. Make/model of cranks & front chainline measurement: center of frame to middle chainring
2. Make/model of cassette and cog range
3. Make/model of chain

Last edited by TandemGeek; 06-05-07 at 08:10 AM.
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Old 06-05-07, 06:16 AM   #2
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My custom off road tandem has an 8sp cass. [which is what was available when we built it. It works great.

My new beyond is of course 10sp... and except the the IRD cass. that I tried. it works fine also. I would like a tighter than 11-34 cass. but for now that is how this one is set up.

My older Soveregn was an 8speed which worked well also. I just upgraded it to make it better match my beyound. So we now have STI and 10speed on this also. which also works great.

I do like 10speed better than 9, but the primary reason for upgrading the Sovereign was to go to STI.vs a change from 8sp. I bought DA for the beyound, and put the Ultegra from this on the sovereign.

I like having the two bikes better match. I now have the same HB with... and the same shift set up.... but perhaps some of this was to justify upgrading the beyound to DA : )

glenn
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Old 06-05-07, 06:29 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenlason
My new beyond is of course 10sp... My older Soveregn was ...upgraded it to make it better match my beyound. So we now have STI and 10speed on this also. which also works great.
Can you recap the components on your 10 Shimano speed set-ups?

1. Make/model of cranks & front chainline measurement: center of frame to middle chainring
2. Make/model of cassette and cog range
3. Make/model of chain
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Old 06-05-07, 07:11 AM   #4
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Standard Santana 10 Speed on our Team Ti-700 - XTR, FSA, Ultegra Levers and Front Derailer. Best shifting triple ring bike and equal to my two ring Dura Ace 10 Speed Road Bike.

Last edited by djsincla; 06-06-07 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 06-05-07, 10:20 AM   #5
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Converted primary tandem from 9s to 10. Now has Ultegra 9 crank (stock 30-42-52 rings) and Ultegra 9 front derailleur; Ultegra 10 rear derailleur, brifters, chain, and 12-27 cassette. Works great, was easy to dial. Plan to someday experiment with 28-39-53 rings, but only when I have a lot of free time :-)
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Old 06-05-07, 01:06 PM   #6
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I've got Ultegra 9-speed and I'm not interested in changing. I even bought a pair of Ultegra 9-speed brifters to keep as spares out of concern that Ultegra level 9-speed shifters might not be easily get-able at some point in the future.
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Old 06-05-07, 06:00 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TandemGeek
For those running 10 speed, can you recap the components on your set-ups and comment on how well they work?
This is on a Santana Niobium with the 160 mm spacing on the rear (purchased Jan 2007):
1. Make/model of cranks - FSA Carbon Pro triple 53-39-30 (labeled as 9 speed on rings)
center of frame to (center of )middle chainring - 50 mm (as well as I can measure)
BUT we do not have the FSA mega exo bottom bracket - I believe it's a Shimano BB with a longer than normal axle but I haven't removed it to look.
2. Make/model of cassette and cog range - Giang (from Santana) 11-34 (11,13,15,17,19,21,23,25,28,34)
3. Make/model of chain - currently Ultegra 6600 10 speed (originally came with a KMC DX10S chain that wasn't quite as narrow as the Ultegra

It may be helpful to know (or easier to tell) which rear cog the front middle chainring lines up with to help compare chainlines between bikes and different rear wheel widths (145 and 160). With my rear 160 mm spacing, the front crank is positioned so that the middle ring appears to me to be lined up with the 21 cog in the rear (the chain appears straight in that combination)

My shifting is near perfect - I believe it was perfect when new. I had a period of poor shifting caused by a cable fraying inside the lever. I was slow to figure that out but it was easily fixed. Since I replaced the original chain (slightly wider KMC chain measuring approx 6.05 mm width) with the Ultegra 6600 (approx 5.9) I have had some occasional skating when shifting to the from the large to middle chainring. It may have nothing to do with the brand of chain or its width but I have had this nagging thought that the narrower Ultegra chain on this 9 speed crank may have more of a tendency to skate. Of course, it may have nothing to do with that and everything to do with the way the front derailleur is adjusted (or misadjusted).

Bloomington, IN

Last edited by BloomingCyclist; 06-07-07 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 06-05-07, 06:22 PM   #8
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1. Make/model of cranks: TruVatiV Elita Tandem crank (TA chainrings)
2. Make/model of cassette and cog range Shimano 10sp 12-27
3. Make/model of chain Wipperman (Shimano compatible 10 sp)
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Old 06-05-07, 06:58 PM   #9
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Shimano 9 Speed cassette w/ Campy spacing, Campy 9 sp Record brifters, Centaur derailleurs.
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Old 06-05-07, 07:29 PM   #10
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'98 Erickson w/145mm rear spacing running Campy 9 Ergo, Record Long Cage RD, & Racing T FD: FD shifting is an A+; Rear about a B+: shifting from 12t to 13t requires a nudge.
1. Make/model of cranks - daVinci 110 BCD with 54/44/32t TA chain rings.
Chainline: Center of frame to center of middle chainring = 46mm
Note: Center of frame to center of large chain ring = 53mm
2. Make/model of cassette and cog range = Shimano Ultegra 12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-27
3. Make/model of chain = 9 speed Shimano CN-7700 or HG-6600
4. Rear cassette alignment = 15t - 17t
'02 Erickson w/145mm rear spacing running Campy 9 Ergo, Record Long Cage RD, & Racing T FD:FD shifting is a C; Rear about a B- (shifter springs & disc need to be replaced): shifting from 12t to 13t requires a double nudge. I really need to get BB's with narrower axles or a different crank spider on this tandem so that the FD shifting is on par with the '98.
1. Make/model of cranks - daVinci 110 BCD with 54/44/32t TA chain rings.
Chainline: Center of frame to center of middle chainring = 50mm
Note: Center of frame to center of large chain ring = 58mm
2. Make/model of cassette and cog range = Shimano XT 11-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32t
3. Make/model of chain = 9 speed Shimano CN-7700 or HG-6600
4. Rear cassette alignment = 16t
'02 Ventana w/135mm rear spacing running SRAM 9 X-0 Gripshift / RD & Shimano XTR FD: Front & Rear shifting is an A++
1. Make/model of cranks - daVinci 110 BCD with 44/34/24t White Ind. chain rings.
Chainline: Center of frame to center of middle chainring = 46mm
Note: Center of frame to center of large chain ring = 53mm
2. Make/model of cassette and cog range = Shimano XT 11-34t
3. Make/model of chain = 9 speed Shimano HG-6600
4. Rear cassette alignment = ??? Too lazy to check

Last edited by TandemGeek; 06-06-07 at 05:04 AM.
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Old 06-05-07, 08:34 PM   #11
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I'll vote anyway

Since I have no tandem currently,but am planning to build another in the coming months,I'll vote anyway.based on the recently sold tandem.These parts are in a box...

Cannondale road frame,05.

campy 9 speed ergolevers,RT front and rear derailleurs

Shimano 12-27 9s cassette,spacing altered to more closely match campy.

Crankset was a Truvativ Elita

The rear ISIS 118 BB was shifted outboard 2mm to create a chainline that lined up on the 5th position/17tooth. The front BB was narrowed to 113 to line up the timing chainrings.Chainline unknown.

As with all my Campy bikes,rear shifting from position 1-2 is sluggish,otherwise B+ everywhere.

We also had a second wheelset with an 11-32 that performed the same.

Chains are Sram PC-59 all around.
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Old 06-06-07, 10:24 AM   #12
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06? Santana beyound 160mm rear spacing.

using Dura Ace double 10sp.STI levers. currently I am running a long cage XTR rear deraileur. The cass. is an 11-34 from Santana. Made by Giang. 11-13-15-17-19-21-23-25-28-34
The crankset is an FSA carbon crank. {not the new external bearing one.. the one just prior to that] the bolt circle is a 130. Currently I am using 55 -42 fsa time trail rings. I have a DA braze on front deraileur with one of Santana's "triple fix" clamps.

The front chain rings are on the heavy side [ I knew that going in] but they are monster stiff and shift exellent. As an additional pluse the big solid time trail ring intimidates the heck out of some half bike riders

I think the shifting of this bike.. or this set up is an a+ I suspect that with a tighter cass. and the shorter cage DA deraileur I have for it will result in an even faster rear shift.

My main issue is what feels like huge jumps in the high gears on the rear. 11-13-15.

I would love to have an 11-28 on this. So far I have not gotten ANY response from IRD about the shifting problems I have with their cass.
I have thought about Srams 11-26 but I am not sure I want a 42-26 as my low gear. I have also contemplated building a cass. up from Miche seperate pieces.

oh I almost forgot.. the chain is a connex.. I forget the number but it is the nickle plated one. and the front center looks to be about 51.5mm.

glenn
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Old 06-06-07, 08:50 PM   #13
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2005 Co-Motion Supremo 145mm ~ 5000 miles

FSA MegaExo 54-42-30 (also have 48-38-26 usually used with the 13-29, probably going to modify this to an 11-29 since we spin out too easily with tailwind or slight downhill)

Campy Record 10 Sp Cassettes (11-23 and 13-29) originals (about 2500 miles on each)

Campy Record Ergo shifters

Campy Record Long Carriage Rear

Campy Record Triple Front

Campy Record Chain (got ~4000 miles out of last one)

We are both light riders - total weight of ~270 lbs (my wife never lets me see her weight but I don't mind as it's all muscle!) - so that probably accounts for the good longevity of parts.

Combination shifts great ( as good as my single) with only a couple of adjustments so far. I particularly like the ability to grab a handful of gears with one stroke of the shifters. I believe the new Shimano 10 sp. can do the same.
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Old 06-07-07, 07:53 AM   #14
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Burley alu frame
FSA SLK Mega Exo carbon cranks
Looks like 52-53mm chainline
53-42-30 FSA rings
11-12-14-16-18-24-26-28-32 DA cassette, which is all wrong, but its there
SRAM PC-99 hollow pin drive chain
SRAM PC-48 timing chain
Ultegra 9-sp STI brifters

We can (or should) use only 6 cogs in any given chainring to preserve the life of $50+ chains and adhere to front der. positioning, which means my 27-speed drive is only about 18-20 effective speeds.

My dream bike would have the following:

50mm chainline spacing
53 (or 54) 42 30 (or 28) rings
11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28 8-sp cassette, with 9-speed spacing and shimmed to align at the 17 cog
An 11-13-15-17-21-24-28-32 cassette to change out for mountainous terrain
9-speed hollow pin drive chain
8-speed timing chain
9-sp STI brifter modified to 8-speed range
Friction shifter for the front der. with a brazed-on mount on the lateral tube, or bar-end.

I think I would have about the same effective speeds and a far better range, with more effective chainlines.
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Old 06-07-07, 08:13 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjberner
Looks like 52-53mm chainline
Is that measured at the center of the middle chainring or the big chainring? It "appears" to suggest the big.

Last edited by TandemGeek; 06-07-07 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 06-07-07, 08:37 AM   #16
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The big one.
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Old 06-07-07, 12:46 PM   #17
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BB clarification to my earlier response. While we do have FSA Carbon Pro cranks on our Santana Niobium, we do not have the FSA Mega Exo bottom bracket. I believe it's a Shimano bottom bracket with a longer axle to get a good chain line with the wider 160 mm rear wheel spacing. It's whatever bottom bracket Santana specs on their tandem - we didn't ask for anything different. (I've edited my earlier response to include this info).

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Old 06-08-07, 01:49 AM   #18
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I think that folks often don't realize how *compatible* 7, 8, 9, and 10 speed components actually are with each other. The cog thickness difference is too small to matter, but the spacers often matter. The derailleurs shouldn't matter as long as their reach is long enough, and as long as the shifters have the right spacing. I'm running 8-speed shifters with a 7-speed freehub with 8-speed spacers as well as an 8 speed freehub with a mix of different cogs, but with 8-speed spacers. (7 and 8 speed spacers are close enough anyway that it shouldn't matter.) The lighter wheel with the tighter cluster is the 7, so it has less dish. The beefier wheel with more dish is the 8 and I've got a wider cluster (and bigger tires) on it. The tandem is coming (Monday!) with 11-30t 8-speed, and I've already got a bunch of extra cogs to play with, so I'm planning to mess with it the same way as I get a feel for it and feel the need to customize.

See http://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html . You can also do fun things like run 8 of 9 on a 7 wheel with 9-speed shifters and spacers!

Last edited by pocky; 06-08-07 at 02:04 AM.
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Old 06-08-07, 08:27 AM   #19
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my next bike:
92 Santana Sovereign: it has been recently upgraded to STI and 10sp. Not that I feel this set up is hugely better than the bar end and 8sp.set up that I had. I do like the ability to shift with standing [that I can do with STI]... and the ability to put a fight deck on this bike also. The primary reason was to have my two road bikes set up more similarily.

It is of course 160mm spaced. I have Ultegrate 10sp STI levers [triple] the rear hub is an edco. The cass. is the original 11-34 that came from Santana [on my beyound] I am not sure who it is made by. It is not the same as the recent replacements that I have received from them. [made by Giang] [for one is it all individual cogs.]
The cranks are the original shimanos that the Sovereign came with. I think this is not regular shimano stock but something that Santana had made [but I could be wrong] the number on back is fcm730. It is a 110 bolt circle. After some searching I was able to get some FSA 52-38 chain rings. They were not my first [or second] choice in sizes. It also took a bit of dremel work to get them to fit, the cranks.
the chain is a kmc. front senter appears to be 47.5

this bike also shifts very well. Well I am not sure I have the shifting to the original inner ring 30th... dialed in. but I do not use it. I have shifted down to try it... it works but not fantastically... but again it is not a priority at all.

glenn
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Old 06-09-07, 12:20 AM   #20
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burley duet with the stock 105 sti shifters and xt rear derailleur front is 105(?). we swapped the inner 30 tooth chainring to a 26 and narrowed the front and rear bottom brackets from 122 mm to 113 mm. this would not have worked with the 30 tooth inner as it would have hit the chainstay. before the swap it was a lot harder to get the chain onto the big chainring as the front derailleur was running out of travel. it shifts much better on the front.

on the rear we swapped the 11-12-13-15-18-21-24-28-32 to a 11-12-13-15-17-19-21-24-28. with the 26 chainring the low is about the same as stock and the 3 tooth gaps from the 15-18-21 are now 2 tooth gaps 15-17-19-21. as i'm used to one tooth gaps on my single the three tooth gaps were killing me. i would love to go to ten on the tandem but we need to ride it more to justify the expense
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Old 06-09-07, 03:38 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocky
The tandem is coming (Monday!) with 11-30t 8-speed, and I've already got a bunch of extra cogs to play with, so I'm planning to mess with it the same way as I get a feel for it and feel the need to customize.

See http://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html . You can also do fun things like run 8 of 9 on a 7 wheel with 9-speed shifters and spacers!

Doesn't matter how fit or strong you are- A tandem requires low gearing for most of us mere mortals.
I have 48/36/24 linked to 11/32 rear cassette on 9 speed gearing on an offroad tandem that is used offroad. (Did try a 34t but we kept bending it). Although an offroad tandem- it is surprising how many hills require the 24/32 to get up them when on the road with slicks. And the 48/11 rarely gets used except on downhills. 48/11 with cadence of 100 will give us 30 mph and any faster and we will pointing downhill and coasting.

Providing you can get a low enough gear for your legs and your hills-it does not matter whether you have 7-8-9-or 10 speed on your Tandem. However quality of the components will. I have XT throughout and that has been upgraded from LX and that made a big improvement. However I got an XTR rear mech and although I did not notice a great deal of extra smoothness or ease in changing- there was a bit but not much- the life of that top quality unit has been well worth the extra.
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