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Tandem Cycling A bicycle built for two. Want to find out more about this wonderful world of tandems? Check out this forum to talk with other tandem enthusiasts. Captains and stokers welcome!

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Old 07-09-07, 02:42 PM   #1
Fenlason
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Do I have a problem?

My wife and I were on a group ride recently. This night the only other riders were another tandem couple,that we regularly ride with. The other capt. is one of those that is not happy unless the ave. speed for the ride.. is above a certain speed. [right now 20 mph is his goal] It does not seem to matter to him... how hilly the ride is... or how windy...it might be.... he "needs" to "see" a 20mph ave at the end of the ride. The interesting part... is at the moment their team is not capable of "helping" with this or much anyways, so it is up to my wife and I, to do the job. In general I do not care... and do my part.

Ok so this particular ride... it is quite hilly, and it is a real windy night. I am 8 miles from home, and check the ave..... we are at 20.2 All the way back we are into the wind. The next couple of miles are in the open.... [lots of wind] and gradually uphill. I was not capable of riding at or above our ave.... so I am now "worried" about our ave. dropping... so I [we] crank harder and harder... Once in this mode.. one [me] tends to keep cranking.. I keep checking the ave... we have not lost any yet... but have not gained any.

I now become determined to try and raise the ave... I crank harder and harder... going faster and faster... no change. I am focused on turning the pedals over... through the pain... cranking cranking cranking... yet still no change. I am now in a tunnel... I see nothing but the 20.2 on the computor... and the patch of road in front of me.....hammer hammer hammer.... still no change.

We finally make it to the house... exhausted.. My wife can't speak... my partners want to know what the heck got into me...they said I was pedaling like a mad man.. they check the ave.. and it is 20.6... I say that can't be I have 20.2.......... ah then I realize my distance is short... 8 miles back I had accidently hit the flight deck button... and turned off the computor
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Old 07-09-07, 03:14 PM   #2
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You need to ride with some other people . . .
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Old 07-09-07, 03:16 PM   #3
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I have accidentally shut off the flight deck too and had it off for some time before realizing the mistake. However, what is interesting is that you certainly saw that the instantaneous speed was above 20.2 while the average speed stayed the same. That would have clued you in that the FD was off and also, you would not see the flashing arrow showing you above the average. That is all fine except that we cyclists get very myopic when we push and focus on the challenge rather than instrumentation.
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Old 07-09-07, 03:53 PM   #4
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Yes
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Old 07-09-07, 05:35 PM   #5
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Can I review the bidding?

It sounds to me like you said the other tandem captain wasn't happy unless his average speed was over 20MPH. Their team, unfortunately, isn't able to maintain that speed on their own so he wants to draft you and he's unhappy if you don't make that speed. Do I have that right?

If that's the case, I'd say that you, indeed, do have a problem.
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Old 07-09-07, 07:01 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
It sounds to me like you said the other tandem captain wasn't happy unless his average speed was over 20MPH. Their team, unfortunately, isn't able to maintain that speed on their own so he wants to draft you and he's unhappy if you don't make that speed. Do I have that right?
I thought the same but elected not to comment because I suspect that there is a lot more to the story. Glenn, you and your wife get upgraded to beast status for raising the average from 20.2 to 20.6 in the last 8 miles of the ride into the wind and slightly uphill independent of why you did it. Congrats.

The other team goes here.

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Old 07-09-07, 07:12 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by TandemGeek
Yes

Make that a "yes" from us too. Been there, done that.
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Old 07-09-07, 07:14 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by zonatandem
You need to ride with some other people . . .
I second that, and toss the computer away.

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Old 07-10-07, 05:09 AM   #9
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Hello Everyone:

Retro Grouch... yes you have fairly well summarized the situation.

Though this other stoker does not complain... he is just disapointed. He does not say much.. but you can tell. but He is constantly thanking me [us] for doing the pulling ... and apolagises [too much] for not doing his part. I don't have a problem with them... we have ridden for years.

There have also been plenty of times through the years... where we have stayed stuck to their wheel like "grim death".... unable to pull.

He unfortunetly does not understand the idea of base riding or recovery rides. [We do most of that with out them].

A ride we did last week with them..... I did not feel like hammering. He knew that... we rode side by side for a bit and then once we were well warmed up he pulled... he did much of the pulling for the ride..
We had a good ride... all enjoying it... but knowing him I suspect he might have been disapointed that HE [they] was not able to power the ride to have the average above 20... but in no way blaming me. {he was happy that he was pulling and working as hard as he was]

We all thought the ride that I shared with you... was funny... Here I am trying to kill myself to go faster... while the computor was off. His part in the situation... my excuse to try to keep the ave.. above the 20 we were at. [not that I would not have done it on my own at that point]

As Hermes has mentioned... I had strong tunnel vision... I did not notice what should have been very obvious "clues" on the screen. I was focused on the current speed... and the ave. speed... and that was it. even part way through that time... other aspects of my mind seemed to shut down... there was nothing going on in my mind expect for "faster.... I must go faster"

I knew some of you would have had the same mentality... and have similar experiences of your own....and some of you would not.
I was just trying to share a funny story at my expense... Do I have a problem... yes probably... but perhaps no more than any other competive person...


glenn
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Old 07-10-07, 06:26 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Fenlason
I knew some of you would have had the same mentality... and have similar experiences of your own....and some of you would not.
I was just trying to share a funny story at my expense... Do I have a problem... yes probably... but perhaps no more than any other competive person...
glenn
+1
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Old 07-10-07, 06:46 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Fenlason
I knew some of you would have had the same mentality... and have similar experiences of your own....and some of you would not.
Glenn -- when we hammer we ride to cadence rather than speed, upping the gearing while keeping cadence in the high 90s. I'll admit to glancing at speed to give me a boost (stoker does not have cadence, but gave a big whoooooop last Sunday when we hit 28 mph on the flats before the hill). Our experience is the hammer mentality is even worse on the big bike than on our half bikes -- it's just too much fun to go fast!
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Old 07-10-07, 01:16 PM   #12
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I used to turn the Flite Deck off by accident so often...arrrgghh. I ended up cutting a little doughnut out of thick mole foam to put under the rubber hood - over / around the button on the left hand STI lever. I never turn it off by accident any more.

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Old 07-10-07, 07:09 PM   #13
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Freud wrote that narcissism was an essential part of all of us from birth. Moreover, it is thought by many that our inherent narcissism works as an effective defense mechanism for the natural, nagging feelings of shame and inadequacy that we all experience. The question is, how does one keep a healthy amount of narcisssim from growing into narcissistic hubris?

Hmmmmmm.....
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Old 07-10-07, 10:15 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by TandemGeek
The question is, how does one keep a healthy amount of narcisssim from growing into narcissistic hubris?
Can that be done? How does one know the difference? If one's friends, family members, or S.O. claim that someone is narcissistic, but that person doesn't share that perspective, who's right?

I have no pie, so this is my food for thought.
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Old 07-11-07, 05:20 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Red Rider
I have no pie, so this is my food for thought.
Something else for the buffet...

If one's friends, family members, or S.O. claim that someone [fill in the blank]**, but that person doesn't share that perspective, who's right?
** has bad breath - has body odor - talks too fast - interrupts others when they are speaking - lacks sincerity - lacks objectivity - is insensitive - is conceited - isn't funny - snores in their sleep - has a nervous tick - drives them nuts - is inconsiderate - is intolerant - is unable to accept constructive criticism - can't take a joke - is too sensitive - is oblivious - has thin skin - etc.
Perception is reality. The next question then becomes, if it's true do you care what others think?

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Old 07-11-07, 05:42 AM   #16
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Freud wrote that narcissism was an essential part of all of us from birth. Moreover, it is thought by many that our inherent narcissism works as an effective defense mechanism for the natural, nagging feelings of shame and inadequacy that we all experience. The question is, how does one keep a healthy amount of narcisssim from growing into narcissistic hubris?

Hmmmmmm.....
Wow! I did not see that coming.
Again I was merely trying to share a funny story that I thought some would relate to.

While maybe a 20mph ave.. is not bad.... it is not anything I would brag about. esp. on a forum such as this... [who knows who is out there] I did not state how long the ride was... so increasing the ave as we did in the last miles does not really mean anything... with out knowing the total distance of the ride.

the point was I was desperately...spinning away like a hamster on a wheel not going anywhere... no matter what I did the ave was not going to change.

glenn
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Old 07-11-07, 06:07 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Fenlason
... I was merely trying to share a funny story that I thought some would relate to.
No need to apologize or rationalize.

It was an open-ended-question: something to provide mental stimulus for thinking, if you will.

Nothing more and nothing less.

The same holds true for the follow-up to Red Rider's hypothetical.
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Old 07-11-07, 06:19 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Fenlason
the point was I was desperately...spinning away like a hamster on a wheel not going anywhere... no matter what I did the ave was not going to change.

glenn
Glenn -- I think we have gone over the edge -- happily -- on this thread. Any discussion that takes us out of the norm, extends the collective senses of humor, and includes the Wussy Wagon and the Freud Scream is ok with me. I believe the Wussy Wagon may just make the next issue of Changing Gears, the monthly Davis Bike Club newsletter (unless someone submits more "filler" before the deadline). Heck -- your hamster on a wheel comment brought a smile to my face. Humor and tandeming, what a combination....

Steve
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Old 07-11-07, 02:20 PM   #19
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Glenn -- I think we have gone over the edge -- happily -- on this thread. Any discussion that takes us out of the norm, extends the collective senses of humor, and includes the Wussy Wagon and the Freud Scream is ok with me. I believe the Wussy Wagon may just make the next issue of Changing Gears, the monthly Davis Bike Club newsletter (unless someone submits more "filler" before the deadline). Heck -- your hamster on a wheel comment brought a smile to my face. Humor and tandeming, what a combination....

Steve

The only problem I have had in this thread was Tg last post... I loved the wussy wagon [sorry i did not state that along the way] while in reality I do not consider myself worthy of the beast status... nor my friends as riders of the wussy wagon... it was funny... and I found it a great additon to the thread.

I feel if Mark was scencerly looking for a discussion of his subject.... and that it had NOTHING to do with this thread... then he would have... should have started a new thread.

glenn
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Old 07-11-07, 02:24 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Red Rider
Can that be done? How does one know the difference? If one's friends, family members, or S.O. claim that someone is narcissistic, but that person doesn't share that perspective, who's right?

I have no pie, so this is my food for thought.
I have been taught..... if someone tells you, that you have a "tail" and you don't think you do... then you maybe ignore it... but if more and more people are telling you you have a tail... then maybe you should take a look.
but again then again as Mark says....that depends if you care if you have a "tail" or not.
glenn
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Old 07-11-07, 03:26 PM   #21
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I feel if Mark was scencerly looking for a discussion of his subject.... and that it had NOTHING to do with this thread... then he would have... should have started a new thread.
When did I imply that it had nothing to do with this thread?

All I said was you had no need to apolgize or rationale what you posted: you stuck it out there and, well, there you go. You get what you get and sometimes you get something you never expect.

My comment and semi tongue-in-cheek open-ended question with regard to when healthy narcissism begins to give way to some of the less attractive, stereotypical narcissistic behaviors -- some of which are easy to find in the BikeForums as you wander away from tandem land -- still stands.

I'm not suggesting that you or anyone else here is nipping at the heels of a personality disorder here...

--------------------------------

BTW: What was the behavior you had in mind for the rhetorical question you used as the subject line for this post?

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Old 07-11-07, 09:22 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Fenlason
I have been taught..... if someone tells you, that you have a "tail" and you don't think you do... then you maybe ignore it... but if more and more people are telling you you have a tail... then maybe you should take a look.
but again then again as Mark says....that depends if you care if you have a "tail" or not.
glenn
Okay. A tail is something you can quantify. What about narcissism, self-absorption, quick-temper? How does one quantify that?

You know the old adage, "one man's junk is another man's treasure." I think that perspective applies here as well.

Sorry to go OT. Just had to pose the questions.
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Old 07-12-07, 04:23 AM   #23
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Okay. A tail is something you can quantify. What about narcissism, self-absorption, quick-temper? How does one quantify that?

You know the old adage, "one man's junk is another man's treasure." I think that perspective applies here as well.

Sorry to go OT. Just had to pose the questions.

It was not you that took it off topic

The tail..... can be anything..that is why I put it in quotes. You can change any of your examples... for the word tail. If one person says you have a quick temper... then maybe yes maybe no... it is easier to dismiss.. as the numbers of people that say you have a quick temper go up... then perhaps one needs to take a closer look. Yes a quick temper is harder to quantify... than a tail... but If 10 unrelated people told me I had a quick temper... I would not just assume they are right... but I would do some serious reflecting. Although it can be hard to look at ones self with a critical eye.

glenn
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Old 07-12-07, 04:46 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by TandemGeek
BTW: What was the behavior you had in mind for the rhetorical question you used as the subject line for this post?

As I have already stated.. I knew that some would get it,,, that they would understand... and could relate. I expected that there would be those that did not "understand" [meaning they are not of the same hammer - head mentality] they would say I had a problem... some of those would say...get rid of the computor. that some of these would be serious... some joking.

but them somehow I guess I forgot you were on the forum

so yes I need to be open to ANY type of response

glenn
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Old 07-12-07, 05:24 AM   #25
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...but them somehow I guess I forgot you were on the forum
... and given that I am a card-carrying narcissist with an eye for the obscure, there you go.
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