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  1. #1
    Senior Member ftsoft's Avatar
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    New Co.Motion Speedster

    Terry and I have around 200 miles on the tandem and Iím really impressed. For the typical medium tempo ride, the pedaling , for me, is effortless. We arenít climbing very well yet and that is where we need to get it together. Part of that is my fault as Iím all over the place with the gears, but Iíll learn eventually. My only complaint is a small one. I donít particularly like STI. Shifting up is pretty sloppy compared to Ergo. Granted itís a little sloppier because of the tandem geometry, but stillÖ Weíve now started diving into corners with abandon and the handling is outstanding. The Motobecane actually got a little better as the speed increased, in terms of handling, but the CoMotion is a lot better.


  2. #2
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    We own a Co-Pilot that is about 9 years old. The previous owner spec'd bar-end shifters so that's what we have. I've tried STI's mountain bike shifters & the bar end shifters. I think I like the bar end shifters all things considered. The shifts are crisp & sure & we don't need Travel Agents for the brakes.

    Nice looking bike!

  3. #3
    Senior Member CGinOhio's Avatar
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    Nice bike! We also bought an 07 Speedster that was sloppy shifting. I'm not sure if yours is as big a problem as ours was, or just a matter of you getting used to the tandem. We had trouble with very delayed upshifts (moving to smaller rear cassette cogs) and missed shifts After several trips to 2 diff LBS, I think Brian at Hubbub came up with a solution if not the root cause. Hubbub has seen a number of newer tandems with this type problem. Brian thinks the common thread is the tandems with the latest generation XTR rear der. combined with the wide range 10spd cassette. He made some "modifications" to my cassette that seem to have the bike shifting cleanly. Maybe not as good as my single with a double chainring, but good. I'm not sure if you are in Northeast Ohio, but Hubbub is just east of Cleveland if you aren't familiar with them. You might give them a call.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftsoft View Post
    .....My only complaint is a small one. I donít particularly like STI. Shifting up is pretty sloppy compared to Ergo. Granted itís a little sloppier because of the tandem geometry, but stillÖ

    I assume you bought the bike new? If so, why did you order STI and not Ergo? Just curious.

  5. #5
    Mad Town Biker Murrays's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftsoft View Post
    Shifting up is pretty sloppy compared to Ergo. Granted itís a little sloppier because of the tandem geometry, but stillÖ
    Hmm, I'm still impressed with the crispness of the sti shifting on our 3 yo Speedster, though it's 9 speed and I upgraded to the DA brifters.

    FWIW, I'm still sweating from the ride over to pick up our 7 yo daughter from daycare. Earlier in the year I was able to lower the seat all the way down, rotate the bars and add some crank arm shorteners so that our daughter could ride stoker. We ride to daycare, swim lesson, karate and a few "real" rides. We've got over 300 miles already this year! I'll have to write a full report with some photos one of these days.

    For now, here's a photo of our Speedster before the mods:



    -murray
    "I feel more now like I did than when I first got here"

  6. #6
    Cyclist- Bike 'n a half
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftsoft View Post
    I don’t particularly like STI.
    Neither did I when I was going back and forth between Campy Chorus 10 sp on the single every Saturday and Shimano Ultegra on the tandem on Sunday.

    When we started shopping and found we could get a full custom frame set up with Record 9sp. brifters and Centaur derailleurs for the same as a stock bike equally equipped with the Campy upgrade package, the choice was clear.

    We did put on a Shimano compatible hub with Campy spacing for more cassette choices and range. So far we’ve been pleased with our decision.

    Congratulations. Beautiful bike, best wishes for many miles of safe riding on it.
    Last edited by regomatic; 08-01-07 at 06:28 PM.

  7. #7
    Co-Mo mojo
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftsoft View Post
    I donít particularly like STI. Shifting up is pretty sloppy compared to Ergo. Granted itís a little sloppier because of the tandem geometry, but stillÖ
    Sorry to hear of your disappointment, but it is a great bike. We have a late 2006 Speedster and had the choice between 9 speed and 10 speed Ultegra. We went with 9 speed, which shifts just about as crisply as my 9 speed Ultegra commuter and my 10-speed Ultegra road bike. Heard concerns about the new XTR derailleur, but not sure how much is speculation and how much is real.

    If you do not get positive feedback from your LBS on this, suggest you contact Co Mo directly. Seems like your LBS would do this on your behalf, but.... My dealer was strong on "customer satisfaction" even 6 months after the sale (shameless plug, you're welcome Rick!).

  8. #8
    DoubleTrouble cgallagh's Avatar
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    We have no problems with our new Roadster. STI 9 speed. I had to replace the front derailleur cable and had the LBS check the adjustment. All is well in tandem town.
    Two blondes walked into a building-You think one of them would have seen it.
    2006 Co-Motion Roadster 2006 Fuji Team Pro, 2005 Specialized Dolce Comp, 2008 Orbea Diva (Red Riders Baby-"The Avocado")
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  9. #9
    Senior Member zonatandem's Avatar
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    We fought front shifting on our then new Zona tandem with Dura Ace STI 9-speed for 3,000 miles.
    Stoker Kay suggested: 'Go back to barcons' . . . we did and all's great.
    Got over 16,000 miles on the tandem now . . . sometimes a bit of retro is the answer!
    Nice looking Co-Mos . . . we had a custom Co-Mo built back in 1993 and put 57,000 miles on it.

  10. #10
    Senior Member ftsoft's Avatar
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    I only had so much to spend and Ergo would have broken my budget.

  11. #11
    Senior Member ftsoft's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback, We do indeed have the XTR derailleur. Does anyone know what tuning was done to solve any of these problems? I shouldn't overstate the shifting problems. It's not too bad and as one responder stated I may just be adjusting to it after a life of ergo shifting.

  12. #12
    Senior Member ftsoft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGinOhio View Post
    Nice bike! We also bought an 07 Speedster that was sloppy shifting. I'm not sure if yours is as big a problem as ours was, or just a matter of you getting used to the tandem. We had trouble with very delayed upshifts (moving to smaller rear cassette cogs) and missed shifts After several trips to 2 diff LBS, I think Brian at Hubbub came up with a solution if not the root cause. Hubbub has seen a number of newer tandems with this type problem. Brian thinks the common thread is the tandems with the latest generation XTR rear der. combined with the wide range 10spd cassette. He made some "modifications" to my cassette that seem to have the bike shifting cleanly. Maybe not as good as my single with a double chainring, but good. I'm not sure if you are in Northeast Ohio, but Hubbub is just east of Cleveland if you aren't familiar with them. You might give them a call.
    Thanks. We are in Dayton, but might look him up when visiting our son at Kent.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftsoft View Post
    I only had so much to spend and Ergo would have broken my budget.
    I am sorry that was the case. I prefer Ergo style myself. If SRAM can work out the kinks (and the price) on their new Force gruppo I might even consider that for a future bike.

    You picked yourselves up a beautiful bike. I'm hoping all the kinks are worked out.

  14. #14
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftsoft View Post
    Thanks for the feedback, We do indeed have the XTR derailleur. Does anyone know what tuning was done to solve any of these problems? I shouldn't overstate the shifting problems. It's not too bad and as one responder stated I may just be adjusting to it after a life of ergo shifting.
    See Counselguy's post on the IRD cassette...
    Improved Shifting with IRD Cassettes

    I've read some comments on the '07 XTR rear derailleur -- interestingly enough on IRD's own website FAQ's -- and i've got to tell you if I had to pick which component was more likely to be a bit off, my money would be IRD's cassette and not Shimano's derailleur.

    To those with 9 speed systems, you have 9 speed systems... of course they work well: they're not running IRD wide-range 10 speed models that are being fitted to tandems with Shimano 10 speed systems. It's this combination of the IRD 10 speed cassettes & Shimano shifting components that are generating the lastest round of tandem shifting problem reports. 9 speed was sorted out years ago.

    To Rudy, my guess if you put upgraded to Shimano's 10 speed indexed barcons, an XT or XTR rear derailleur, and an IRD 10 speed wide-range cassette your REAR shifting would be just as flakey as someone running STI. It has nothing to do with the front derailleur shifting which, incidently, has gotten better on STI triples... a vast improvement over the first generations that didn't have any trim positions and from whence the bad-rap came. If you have newer STI triples and can't get the front shifting dialed in, then you've either not read the set-up instructions: they aren't idiot proof, but the instructions will yield proper shifting.

    Finally, and this is really weird, I've sent multiple Emails with questions regarding the Shimano 10 speed systems using IRDs cassettes to at least one tandem builder who uses them and have never received replies to those Emails. That's a first in 10 years they've been mum on any question I've ever asked... and I've asked a lot of questions.
    Last edited by TandemGeek; 08-03-07 at 07:53 AM.

  15. #15
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek View Post
    See Counselguy's post on the IRD cassette...
    Improved Shifting with IRD Cassettes

    I've read some comments on the '07 XTR rear derailleur -- interestingly enough on IRD's own website FAQ's -- and i've got to tell you if I had to pick which component was more likely to be a bit off, my money would be IRD's cassette and not Shimano's derailleur.

    To those with 9 speed systems, you have 9 speed systems... of course they work well: they're not running IRD wide-range 10 speed models that are being fitted to tandems with Shimano 10 speed systems. It's this combination of the IRD 10 speed cassettes & Shimano shifting components that are generating the lastest round of tandem shifting problem reports. 9 speed was sorted out years ago.

    To Rudy, my guess if you put upgraded to Shimano's 10 speed indexed barcons, an XT or XTR rear derailleur, and an IRD 10 speed wide-range cassette your REAR shifting would be just as flakey as someone running STI. It has nothing to do with the front derailleur shifting which, incidently, has gotten better on STI triples... a vast improvement over the first generations that didn't have any trim positions and from whence the bad-rap came. If you have newer STI triples and can't get the front shifting dialed in, then you've either not read the set-up instructions: they aren't idiot proof, but the instructions will yield proper shifting.

    Finally, and this is really weird, I've sent multiple Emails with questions regarding the Shimano 10 speed systems using IRDs cassettes to at least one tandem builder who uses them and have never received replies to those Emails. That's a first in 10 years they've been mum on any question I've ever asked... and I've asked a lot of questions.
    I suspect they do not want to respond until they have a solution.

    Our 11/34 10 speed Santana shift fines and it is made by Ging (sp) under license via Shimano. I think Ging makes IRD as well. We also have an 11/23 10 speed Shimano cassette that shifts fine also. I really like the 11/23 and it works for most of the hills but for the longer climbs. I have a SRAM Force 11/28 10 speed on order.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  16. #16
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    Our 11/34 10 speed Santana shift fines and it is made by Ging (sp) under license via Shimano. I think Ging makes IRD as well.
    Which rear derailleur do you have on your Santana? '06 XT or XTR, or '07 XT or XTR?

    Re the wide-range 10 speed cassette supplier, it's Giang Industries Sdn Bhd, Malaysia.
    http://www.giangindustries.com/

  17. #17
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek View Post
    Which rear derailleur do you have on your Santana? '06 XT or XTR, or '07 XT or XTR?

    Re the wide-range 10 speed cassette supplier, it's Giang Industries Sdn Bhd, Malaysia.
    http://www.giangindustries.com/
    Our Santana is August 06 with an XTR rear der.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  18. #18
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    Our Santana is August 06 with an XTR rear der.
    So, it's this...



    And not this...


  19. #19
    Senior Member zonatandem's Avatar
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    Mark:
    Agree, newer generation Shim STI front der. have been improved; however we are more than happy with our Shim. barcons . . . heck we like some of this lo-tech stuff . . . ah, simplicity!

  20. #20
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek View Post
    So, it's this...



    And not this...

    Yes
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  21. #21
    Senior Member ftsoft's Avatar
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    I've spent some time tuning the XTR derailleur (the bottom one in the pic above) and it's getting pretty close. I can go to bigger gears much better and going to smaller gears is tolerable (I sacrificed some effieciency here). I would say it's acceptable now and I can probably do better. We are still messing about with the fit to some degree.

    Frank

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