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  1. #1
    Ride it like you stole it WheresWaldo's Avatar
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    Going to do some upgrading

    I thought I would post a recent picture of my stoker and I on our tandem. This image was taken this past Sunday in Waxhaw, NC.



    Now as far as upgrades. I need to drop about 5 pounds off this tandem, along with the 15-17 pounds that the stoker and I will drop by this spring. That should put as at a great weight to train for The Assault on Marion this upcoming June. I will probably build my own wheels and I am thinking that is probably the place where a large chunk of the weight will come from. If I do some judicious eBaying, I could probably get most of the stuff I need and save some money too.

    Looks like It will be DT 540 Tandem Disk hubset, Velocity Deep-V non-machined rims, DT or Wheelsmith 14-15-14g DB spokes w/brass nipples. 36H front/rear in a 3x rear 2x front pattern. With 36 spoke wheels straight 14g spokes just seem like overkill. Will most likely replace the crankset, I have never liked the way the Truvativ Elita shifted. It seems as if you have to ease up excessively to get it to shift smoothly (maybe I am spoiled by the DA drivetrain on my single bike). Other little things to help get the weight down would be helpful, I am willing to take suggestions. The one thing that can't go is the rear drop bars. Bittersweet did not like the bullhorns at all, plus they are now going to go on an upcoming fixed gear project bike.
    "Never use your face as a brake pad" - Jake Watson
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  2. #2
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Without regard for budget...

    1. If you want to get rid of as much weight as possible, consider switching out the front fork for a 1.125" Reynolds Ouzo Pro Tandem with a DuraAce or Ultegra Caliper. It's got an extra .2mm of rake (5.5 vs. 5.3) which, if you like the way your C'dale handles, won't change it all that much.

    2. Before jumping to the DT hubs, give White Industries hubs a look: lower cost, lower weight, higher reliability (at least IMHO). Moreover, if you change out the fork you can cut your front hub in half.

    3. Cranks aren't inexpensive if you're looking for superlight. Best bet if you want to save a few bucks is to search out a set of Ultegra tandem cranks: big bang for the buck.

    4. Not sure what C'dale has spec'd for seatposts and handlebars, but if you think there are some weight savings opportunities there and can resist the lure of carbon consider Thomson's Elite or Masterpiece aluminum posts and SL-grade aluminum handlebars from Deda (e.g., 215) or others.

    That's about it, aside from lighterweight tires vs. the stokers.

  3. #3
    Terri's Captain RickinFl's Avatar
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    14 gauge spokes are not overkill- they will give you extra lateral stiffness in your wheels that you will appreciate, especially when doing out of the saddle work such as climbing or sprinting. It makes a difference, more so on tandems than on singles. People that build wheels will tell you that you can build a better wheel with double butted spokes, but the truth is that it's easier to build a wheel with double butted than with heavier straight gauge- it's easier to tension and true a wheel done with DB spokes because they stretch more easily than SG spokes, which is exactly the reason that a wheel done with SG spokes is more laterally stiff.

    Hah- I'm ranting already and no one has even had the opportunity to refute me yet I'll save the rest of this argument for when someone jumps in to tell me I'm wrong.

    One other thing- the weight savings of DB over SG is negligible, especially on a tandem. Far and away the most practical way to reduce the weight of the system is to lose weight from your body if possible. My wife and I have lost 30lbs between the two of us in the last six months (we're a 280lb team now) and the difference is stunning both when accelerating and when climbing.

    Rick the Curmudgeon

  4. #4
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickinFl View Post
    Far and away the most practical way to reduce the weight of the system is to lose weight from your body if possible.
    ... also the least expensive, most effective, but sometimes the most difficult to achieve.


    Quote Originally Posted by RickinFl View Post
    My wife and I have lost 30lbs between the two of us in the last six months (we're a 280lb team now) and the difference is stunning both when accelerating and when climbing.
    Cranky!! You and Terri were impossible to hang with BEFORE... Guess we'll have to start training now just so we'll be able to visit with you two for a few miles before being dropped at next year's GTR down in Albany.

  5. #5
    Senior Member zonatandem's Avatar
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    Agree most effective way to loose weight off the tandem is for the duo to push away from the table; if you undulge: lay off the beers/booze, sugar coated stuff and yes, even skip dessert (most of the time)!
    This captain loves desserts/sweets, however standing order is dessert (maybe!) every other day.
    This coming from a guy that, in his younger years, after a century, could go to an all you can eat place, and held the record for only having 7 desserts! One time eating 3 full banana splits (with all the goop and nuts and cherries and stuff) after dinner . . . with the owner of the restaurant offering the 4th split free . . . asked him to give me a raincheck on that. My riding weight then was a 118 lbs.
    Thirty-some years later he's 'balooned out' to 135 lbs; stoker's weight is 108 compared to her 98 lbs 53 years ago. Now we order 'senior portions' and have trouble cleaning our plate!
    Lighten up the bike: C/f fork and very light (rotating weight!) wheels will make a difference.
    Fork suggestion: either Reynolds or Alpha Q tandem fork.
    Wheels: Topolino tandem wheelset (c/f spokes with kevlar coating) or Rolf Vigor Tandem set.
    For a bit more comfort: c/f handlebars and stoker stem/seatposts.
    We utilize Dura Ace calipher on front and Tektro Mini-V on rear for brake.
    BTW a real good looking tandem duo (but do suggest captain tighten helmet strap a bit)!
    Pedal on TWOgether!
    Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

  6. #6
    Ride it like you stole it WheresWaldo's Avatar
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    Ah, here's the rub. Because of previous life style and not taking care of my body in the past, I am down to pretty much the lowest weight I can get to. December 2005 = 350 pounds, today = 202 pounds. According to my surgeon, I have about 5-10 pounds maximum that I can lose. Now the other alternative is surgery, with that the estimate is an additional 15 pounds over what I mentioned above, but it is painful, has a long recovery period, and my insurance carrier considers it entirely cosmetic. So although I appreciate the comments about losing weight on the body, and I have made them myself to others, it is just not practical.

    I do not drink beer, eat sweets or any kind of dessert for that matter. I am just a fairly big person. So summing it up:

    Wheels: I will look at the WI hubs, I have a set of Nimble Fly Carbon wheels for my single using WI H1 (no longer available as he now brought out the H2 hubs) and CX-Rays. As these will be event only wheels I might be able to get away with 32h also. I will look at the Rolf's, funny thing Rolf's get no love over on the Road Cycling forum. I'll look at the Topos also.

    Fork: We do absolutely zero miles with anything on the bike other than ourselves, no loaded touring or anything more than a two hour ride. Of course that will change when we start training for Metric Centuries. I suppose then that I could ditch the front disk and go with some cantilevers instead, that would allow me to swap out to a carbon fork. Is that correct?

    Seatpost: I have Thomson seatposts on both my daughter's and my single bikes, love them, fairly light, strong and would work with the tandem. I will need setback posts both front and rear, hmm. I am not a big carbon seatpost fan, not light, too much cash, I just don't get it.

    Saddles: We had Terry saddles (Fly & Butterfly) on there originally, now with many miles we have found them to be too soft, and very uncomfortable after any amount of time in the saddle. I swapped mine out for a Specialized Toupe and Stoker is getting another Selle San Marco Aspide Glamour, maginally lighter but infinitely more comfortable.

    Stem: Already have a Thomson in the front, I have never seen a CF stoker stem, can you point me to one.

    Bars: Already fairly light AL bars, can't see saving much weight on bars unless I buy two more Zipp bars (already have on on my single). Can't see spending money like that.

    Spokes: With the wider bracing angle I don't see any advantage to 14g spokes over a DB spoke as far as lateral stiffness is concerned. There is such a thing as stiff enough, and I think this is one of those times, sorry to disagree with you Rick.

    Crank: Probably not a great place to save weight, more likely I can make a profound change in shifting performance by changing out the chainrings to something with better engineered ramps and pins.

    Helmet: I was thinking about removing the straps completely just to save those few extra grams!
    "Never use your face as a brake pad" - Jake Watson
    The Incidental Cyclist - Cycling in and around Union County

  7. #7
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by WheresWaldo View Post
    I was thinking about removing the straps completely just to save those few extra grams!
    Maybe something with magnets to hold it on.

    Fill the bottles with dehydrated water, much less weight.

  8. #8
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WheresWaldo View Post
    I will look at the Rolf's, funny thing Rolf's get no love over on the Road Cycling forum. I'll look at the Topos also.
    I'm actually in the wheel market as well and, FWIW, I'm still struggling with anything other than conventional wheels for everyday use, e.g., White Ind. with either Fusion or Deep-Vs. I've looked at the Topolinos (thanks, but no thanks) and am considering the Rolfs as a second set of wheels just for sh*ts and giggles, aka. beta testing. I'm still not convinced that the juice is worth the squeeze long-term on these wheelsets beyond special events. Yes, all indications are that they do make it feel a bit it easier to go the same speed which is essentially what happens when you log base miles on racing equipment. Less I digress further, I'm waiting to hear a first hand report on the new '08 Rolfs from my 'source' who has not yet received the first shipment. They purportedly use a 30mm deep section vs. 33mm and there are some other changes, most likely further weight reductions to keep up with the Joneses. Again, my back-of-the-envelope math suggests that certain White Ind. hubs with sub 500g rims and DB spokes will get you a set of wheels that are in the same weight-range as the Rolfs, but lack the aero advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by WheresWaldo View Post
    I suppose then that I could ditch the front disk and go with some cantilevers instead, that would allow me to swap out to a carbon fork. Is that correct?
    Yes, there are some 1.125" carbon forks out there with cantilever brake bosses. If you could find one, the Alpha Q CX tandem fork made for Burley would probably be a pretty good option w/48mm of rake. Chucksbikes.com sells something that looks like the cantilever carbon fork made for Santana but with a 1.125" steerer and I have no idea what the rake or fork length is. I would assume it to be 55mm and 395mm, respectively but you'd need to ask. In the caliper-brake department -- which would be my druthers -- the aforementioned Reynolds fork would be my pick of the litter. I would not recommend the Alpha Q X2 unless you're really unhappy with the handling of your Cannondale and won't mind giving up some crank clearance. The Alpha Q X2 has 44mm of rake and is at least 2.6cm shorter than the fork you have on that bike: it will alter the geometry of your bike, to include your riding positions as the front end will drop ~2.6cm and make all of the effective head & seat tube angles steeper. Hey, maybe you won't need those set-back seatposts after all! Seriously, you'd really need to give the X2 fork choice a lot of deep thought. While it could make your C'dale handle more to your liking, it could also make it a handful. Wound-Up also offers a cantilever carbon fork with 45mm of rake and it would fall into the same ballpark as the X2: it might work fine, then again, it might not be to your liking.

    Quote Originally Posted by WheresWaldo View Post
    I am not a big carbon seatpost fan, not light, too much cash, I just don't get it.
    #1: They look really cool. #2: They're lighter than some of the other posts. #3: They look really cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by WheresWaldo View Post
    Selle San Marco Aspide Glamour, maginally lighter but infinitely more comfortable.
    Do you really need the saddles? Just kidding.

    Quote Originally Posted by WheresWaldo View Post
    I have never seen a CF stoker stem, can you point me to one.
    Hold on to your wallet: http://stealthcycling.com/c=Sn6P3w56...ategory/stems/
    Yo, Rudy... Is Bob still making these? I thought he discontinued these along with the AriZona frames?

    Quote Originally Posted by WheresWaldo View Post
    Crank: Probably not a great place to save weight,
    You might be surprised... I don't know what cranks they stuck on the C'dales, but there is something to be said for a well-engineered set of lightweight, super-stiff cranks.

    Quote Originally Posted by WheresWaldo View Post
    Helmet: I was thinking about removing the straps completely
    Helmets are way over-rated: they only work when you crash and, well, how often is that? (Just kidding, again).
    Last edited by TandemGeek; 10-23-07 at 12:25 PM.

  9. #9
    Terri's Captain RickinFl's Avatar
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    Permit me to digress. I realize that this thread has tipped heavily in the direction of grams-shaving, but I'll bore everyone that bothers to read this post a bit more with a curmudgeonly discussion of lateral wheel stiffness.

    On a tandem, more lateral stiffness is better, and I'm not sure that you can have too much. The side to side forces operating on tandems are much more than a single bike, and it can be felt. You might interpret a laterally soft rear wheel as something else- a whippy frame, a soft rear tire, or whatever. If you value crisp, precise handling and response, stiffer is better. It's no mistake that sprinters prefer the laterally stiffest wheels that they can find.

    A couple of scholarly works that touch on lateral stiffness can be found at:

    http://www.duke.edu/~hpgavin/papers/...heel-Paper.pdf
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/wheel/grignon.htm

    Gavin's paper is a forest of complex math (which I don't pretend to comprehend), but the interesting thing for us curmudgeons are the two graphs that relate lateral wheel stiffness to spoke diameter and spoking pattern. In all cases, the 14G spoke provides the most laterally stiff wheel. Interestingly, a 2X pattern gives the most torsional compliance in the plane of the wheel (that's the flex you get under braking or acceleration), and some folks feel like that is a good thing- it gives a more comfortable ride. I'll stick to a 3X pattern for my tandem wheels myself.

    If you're searching out bling, definitely go for the exotic wheels with only a few spokes. 14G spokes do not have that degree of coolth. If you're looking for performance and sharp handling, stay with conventional wheels built with 14G spokes (I've veered over into personal opinion here....). Given the large forces operating on tandems, especially at the rear wheel, it's smart to prefer strength and reliability over light weight. Lose the weight somewhere else.

    I've actually done the work in the real world, having built and tested wheels done both ways, and the difference is anything but subtle. On the other hand, I've been told by Jobst Brandt (among more than a few others) that I'm wrong. So there you have it.

    Rick

  10. #10
    Terri's Captain RickinFl's Avatar
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    Ooops- forgot to mention- see you in Albany TG.

    Rick

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    What does the bike weigh now? How did you pick your five pound target? Have you considered selling the 'Dale and replacing it with a bike that has a lighter frame (C'Dale frames aren't reputed to be especially light, and moving to caliper brakes would be an easy way to shed grams)? Your contemplated upgrades (wheel$, crank$, fork$) could set you back as far as the cost delta for an entirely new bike... and in the end you'd still have the original sturdy-but-flabby frame.

    ... just a thought!

  12. #12
    Senior Member swc7916's Avatar
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    I also don't understand the 5-pound target. Aside from dropping weight from the team, lightening up the wheels would probably give you the most bang for the buck. I don't know how much the disk brakes weigh, but I woulld ditch them for calipers or cantilevers.

    It always amuses me how that people will spend big money to drop a few ounces from their bike and then add two (or four) full water bottles that must weigh a couple of pounds! Making sure that your bike fits properly will also make you more efficient and add speed.

  13. #13
    Ride it like you stole it WheresWaldo's Avatar
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    to Rick,
    Wow, if Jobst Brandt told you you are mistaken and you are not sure whether to believe him...

    I also think that we, as paired riders, tend to over engineer. Look at the trend in single bikes, with regard to wheels. It seems that lighter, less and thinner spokes is the norm even for big sprinters on the pro circuit. Now I surely do not believe my daughter and I put out that kind of power.

    Bling for blings sake is a fools errand. I am not looking for a better looking bike, I am looking for practical ways to improve the performance. We are already working on the engines, and very hard mind you. My daughter has me doing core exercises, and she still laughs at me since I can only do about half the reps she can. I am planning on riding fixed all winter, can you say "big quads." As well as the fact that we do a lot of single bike riding. I am still not convinced 14g spokes is a necessary component in lateral stiffness (< that last remark sounds like every bike review for the past few years, "laterally stiff, yet vertically compliant").

    to TG,
    I emailed Chucks about the specs on the CX/Tandem fork, I will post his reply. I can't believe CDale uses such an odd sized fork. I did a rough measurement and came out with 410mm crown to center of dropout and I could not really get a good offset measurement, but by eye it did not look like it was over 50mm. I may just take the damn thing apart so I can get better specs. Maybe I should just be smart about it and email CDale first?

    to BRD,
    I had the measurement somewhere in some spreadsheet, but I can't find it at the moment. I guess I'll have to recharge some NiMH and put them in the Alpine scale and measure it again, I will let you know. BTW, I pulled that figure completely out of the air, not really

    Not sure I want to outlay that kind of cash all in one lump sum, especially on a bike that is only ridden one day a week! Typically it goes like this, Monday-Friday approximately 1 hour each day on the single bike with my neighbor. Usually hills, one recovery ride, one tempo ride. Saturday is a day off. Sunday morning I ride 50-60 miles with the B group, usually about 2000' vertical climbing, between 18-19 mph overall average. Then I take a nap (the most important part of the day). Two hours latter, we go out on the tandem anything from 15-35 miles depending on the route everyone else wants to go and whether or not we try to hammer the group (they are all single riders). Spreading out the cost is a big deal to the significant other that is not a cyclist!
    "Never use your face as a brake pad" - Jake Watson
    The Incidental Cyclist - Cycling in and around Union County

  14. #14
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Carbon fork = ~$500
    Caliper Brake = ~$100
    New Wheelset = ~$450 - $600 (Rolf's @ $950, Topolinos @ $1,200: neither are user servicable)
    New Crankset = ~$500
    New Bits & Pieces = ~$400

    It all adds up... however, in reading the OP's postings he's obviously dropped a few bucks on bikes and components over the years and should have a full appreciation for what the costs of an upgrade would be.

  15. #15
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WheresWaldo View Post
    I can't believe CDale uses such an odd sized fork. I did a rough measurement and came out with 410mm crown to center of dropout and I could not really get a good offset measurement, but by eye it did not look like it was over 50mm. I may just take the damn thing apart so I can get better specs. Maybe I should just be smart about it and email CDale first?
    Or just look it up on the geometry tables that they provide on their Website:
    http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/06/geo-30.html

  16. #16
    Ride it like you stole it WheresWaldo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swc7916 View Post
    I also don't understand the 5-pound target. Aside from dropping weight from the team, lightening up the wheels would probably give you the most bang for the buck. I don't know how much the disk brakes weigh, but I woulld ditch them for calipers or cantilevers.

    It always amuses me how that people will spend big money to drop a few ounces from their bike and then add two (or four) full water bottles that must weigh a couple of pounds! Making sure that your bike fits properly will also make you more efficient and add speed.
    Since I really can't drop much more weight from the engine, you have got to start somewhere. Water is water, it weighs the same no matter where it is, in you or on you (a pint a pound the world around). Can't ride without it so it is fixed into the equation. You know what else, you are going to carry that water with you whether or not the bike weighs 40 pounds or 35 pounds.

    Bike fits, and has basically the same setup as our single bikes with the exception of captain saddle to bar drop. Saddle to center of cranks are exact, setback is exact, saddle to bar is exact, can't get much closer than that. I could flip the stem and get more aero but it is certainly easier to control the bike sitting just a little more upright!

    The disks are heavy, about 120g per caliber and an additional 220g per rotor, that is without bolts, brackets or pads. I could go to some canti's and be down in the 160-180g range with everything for just a few dollars on ebay.
    "Never use your face as a brake pad" - Jake Watson
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  17. #17
    Ride it like you stole it WheresWaldo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek View Post
    Or just look it up on the geometry tables that they provide on their Website:
    http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/06/geo-30.html
    I guess that would be too easy
    "Never use your face as a brake pad" - Jake Watson
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  18. #18
    Ride it like you stole it WheresWaldo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek View Post
    Carbon fork = ~$500
    Caliper Brake = ~$100
    New Wheelset = ~$450 - $600 (Rolf's @ $950, Topolinos @ $1,200: neither are user servicable)
    New Crankset = ~$500
    New Bits & Pieces = ~$400

    It all adds up... however, in reading the OP's postings he's obviously dropped a few bucks on bikes and components over the years and should have a full appreciation for what the costs of an upgrade would be.
    Thanks for this info. I would probably build my own wheels, Fusion or Deep-V rims are about the same price 50-60 each, spokes/nipples under $1 each. Hubs is where the expense is!

    That fork is killer.

    Moving away from stock tires to a typical 700C x 25 race type tire could save almost 1/2 pound, just there alone. Front wheel with rotor weighs 1520g, please note that is not the pair, it is just the front wheel! Hubs spokes rims could save significantly here. Maybe I can't get 5 pounds off the bike, but I think I can get close without breaking the bank.

    I am going out for my daily mid day ride, I will return in about 1.5 hours. by then we should have some more to discuss. You guys in the Tandem forum are great, we can have differences of opinions and still be social and helpful, much more refined than many in the Road forum. Thanks so far.
    Last edited by WheresWaldo; 10-23-07 at 08:49 AM.
    "Never use your face as a brake pad" - Jake Watson
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  19. #19
    Terri's Captain RickinFl's Avatar
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    WheresWaldo-

    Actually, what Jobst said was that spoke gauge made no difference in lateral wheel stiffness as long as the wheel is properly tensioned. That contention is clearly contradicted by HP Gavin's research (you did take a look at that, right?). Rikard Gothall also states it concisely- lateral wheel stiffness is a function of (among other things such as flange height and spacing) total spoke cross section for a given spoke number. This all falls into line with what I know from actual experience on the bike, so I'm entertaining the possibility that Jobst might have been, ahem, mistaken. Or at least didn't have the benefit of access to the more modern research I've cited. Anyone that wants to dig back years and years into Tandem@hobbes could probably find that discussion.

    By the way, I've ridden a Cannondale tandem for the past 15 years (same color as yours; everyone knows that those Galaxy Blue ones are the fastest<G>), and they are eminently upgradeable as you are doing. It's a great frame, not the lightest, but very stiff and efficient. I've been bitten by the "buy a better tandem" bug many times over the years, and have test driven a lot of fancy bikes. I just haven't found one that works so much better than the Cannondale that the expediture of the $$$$$ seemed worthwhile. My blind stoker (and wife) tends to be quite sensitive to the way bikes feel, and she quite agrees- the big name brands we have tested struck her as way too flexible, especially when climbing.

    Have fun with your upgrades, and good luck with your training program.

    Rick

  20. #20
    Senior Member swc7916's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WheresWaldo View Post
    Since I really can't drop much more weight from the engine, you have got to start somewhere. Water is water, it weighs the same no matter where it is, in you or on you (a pint a pound the world around). Can't ride without it so it is fixed into the equation. You know what else, you are going to carry that water with you whether or not the bike weighs 40 pounds or 35 pounds.
    You're absolutely right - you're going to carry the water, but I find it amusing anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by WheresWaldo View Post
    Bike fits, and has basically the same setup as our single bikes with the exception of captain saddle to bar drop. Saddle to center of cranks are exact, setback is exact, saddle to bar is exact, can't get much closer than that. I could flip the stem and get more aero but it is certainly easier to control the bike sitting just a little more upright!
    Proper bike fit is just now getting the attention that it deserves. Proper fitting will make you more comfortable and efficient - and therefore faster. I just had a fitting for a new road bike and found that I need a custom frame because all of the stock frames have top tubes that are too long for me. I never knew. I had been going by old Fit Kit recommendations that advised a longer reach than my new fitting. All these years I have been riding bikes that didn't fit me because I thought that you were supposed to be stretched out on the bike. When you are younger you can better tolerate an improper fit, but as we age, these things become a bigger issue. Anyway, our new tandem fits me better than any of my previous bikes and I can't wait to get my new single.

  21. #21
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swc7916 View Post
    Proper bike fit is just now getting the attention that it deserves.
    Are you referring to your personal epiphany, tandem teams as a group, or the rest of the cycling world?
    Last edited by TandemGeek; 10-23-07 at 10:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WheresWaldo View Post
    Front wheel with rotor weighs 1520g, please note that is not the pair, it is just the front wheel!
    Food for thought... Here's what's on our Erickson road tandem:

    100 gram 36h White Industries Racer-X front hub (aka., M15) laced 3x using 14/15 DB spokes to a Velocity Deep-V rim with rim strip tape = 995 grams or 1,398 grams with a 700x25c tire & tube + skewer. Rear is also a Racer-X so add 206 grams to either number.

    For reference purposes, my Campy Eurus front wheel weighs in at 715 grams: 1,138 with 700x23c tire & tube + skewer.

  23. #23
    Ride it like you stole it WheresWaldo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swc7916 View Post
    You're absolutely right - you're going to carry the water, but I find it amusing anyway.



    Proper bike fit is just now getting the attention that it deserves. Proper fitting will make you more comfortable and efficient - and therefore faster. I just had a fitting for a new road bike and found that I need a custom frame because all of the stock frames have top tubes that are too long for me. I never knew. I had been going by old Fit Kit recommendations that advised a longer reach than my new fitting. All these years I have been riding bikes that didn't fit me because I thought that you were supposed to be stretched out on the bike. When you are younger you can better tolerate an improper fit, but as we age, these things become a bigger issue. Anyway, our new tandem fits me better than any of my previous bikes and I can't wait to get my new single.
    As a racer and bike mechanic in a former life, I am well aware of bike fit. I am very comfortable with the fit now, I can ride 1 hour or 10 hours (my time for Mt Mitchell) with no discomfort and at a fairly brisk pace for an old guy (although I luckily just miss qualifying for the 50+ forum). I am glad you found a tandem that fits you, I am confident that mine fits me and my stoker/daughter.

    Now where can I find some of that dehydrated water for my bottles
    "Never use your face as a brake pad" - Jake Watson
    The Incidental Cyclist - Cycling in and around Union County

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    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WheresWaldo View Post
    Now where can I find some of that dehydrated water for my bottles
    Right here: http://buydehydratedwater.com/shop/i...a3415fbd2cf74f

  25. #25
    Ride it like you stole it WheresWaldo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickinFl
    WheresWaldo-

    Actually, what Jobst said was that spoke gauge made no difference in lateral wheel stiffness as long as the wheel is properly tensioned.
    I have read much of what Mr Brandt has written and I tend to agree with most of it.

    That contention is clearly contradicted by HP Gavin's research (you did take a look at that, right?). Rikard Gothall also states it concisely- lateral wheel stiffness is a function of (among other things such as flange height and spacing) total spoke cross section for a given spoke number. This all falls into line with what I know from actual experience on the bike, so I'm entertaining the possibility that Jobst might have been, ahem, mistaken. Or at least didn't have the benefit of access to the more modern research I've cited. Anyone that wants to dig back years and years into Tandem@hobbes could probably find that discussion.
    My head hurts!

    By the way, I've ridden a Cannondale tandem for the past 15 years (same color as yours; everyone knows that those Galaxy Blue ones are the fastest<G>), and they are eminently upgradeable as you are doing. It's a great frame, not the lightest, but very stiff and efficient.
    100%

    I've been bitten by the "buy a better tandem" bug many times over the years, and have test driven a lot of fancy bikes. I just haven't found one that works so much better than the Cannondale that the expediture of the $$$$$ seemed worthwhile. My blind stoker (and wife) tends to be quite sensitive to the way bikes feel, and she quite agrees- the big name brands we have tested struck her as way too flexible, especially when climbing.

    Have fun with your upgrades, and good luck with your training program.

    Rick
    I have a wife and mother of my child that thinks any expenditure on bikes beyond the initial purchase needs the full consent of Congress and the Presidents signature. I highly doubt I could tell her I want to upgrade to a new tandem.
    "Never use your face as a brake pad" - Jake Watson
    The Incidental Cyclist - Cycling in and around Union County

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