Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Tandem Cycling A bicycle built for two. Want to find out more about this wonderful world of tandems? Check out this forum to talk with other tandem enthusiasts. Captains and stokers welcome!

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-19-07, 02:51 PM   #1
vtrich
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: vermont
Bikes: Guru Photon, seven road, Gunnar cross, Schwinn Homegrown mtn, and Paketa tandem
Posts: 60
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
new wheels

Beginning to contemplate new wheels. Sorry,..couldn't get the search function to work,...so here goes another wheel thread. I'd like to build a set as opposed to buying a pre-built set of wheels. No editorial comment here,..just rather have a more traditional set of wheels. My plan is to use Chris King hubs (145 rear), I have them on the single and I like them, but always open to other opinions. Also, plan on 36 hole,..but not sure what rim to use. Actually, I'm looking for opinions/comments on rims, hubs and spoke size,..but I think the 36 count is good. We're a 270lb team and we've been riding the tandem more and more each year, probably only about 800 miles this past summer.

THANKS for any feedback you have.

Rich
vtrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-07, 04:52 PM   #2
dvs cycles
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: SoCal
Bikes:
Posts: 1,163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A friend of mine built up some CK hubs in 160mm to Mavic CXP-33 36 spoke with Wheelsmith 14g and brass nipples.
Very strong wheel. I plan on doing the same sometime in the near future. CK hubs do make a loud free-wheeling noise though.
dvs cycles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-07, 06:40 PM   #3
Hermes 
Elite Rider
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Bikes: Too Many
Posts: 9,754
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vtrich View Post
Beginning to contemplate new wheels. Sorry,..couldn't get the search function to work,...so here goes another wheel thread. I'd like to build a set as opposed to buying a pre-built set of wheels. No editorial comment here,..just rather have a more traditional set of wheels. My plan is to use Chris King hubs (145 rear), I have them on the single and I like them, but always open to other opinions. Also, plan on 36 hole,..but not sure what rim to use. Actually, I'm looking for opinions/comments on rims, hubs and spoke size,..but I think the 36 count is good. We're a 270lb team and we've been riding the tandem more and more each year, probably only about 800 miles this past summer.

THANKS for any feedback you have.

Rich
There is nothing for which to apologize. This forum is dead and needs more activity. We could discuss every topic in the archives and learn something new contributed by new people who joined prior to the last discussion.

I ride tandems so I have little to offer about wheels other than to strongly agree with the comment on the loud noise from CK hubs. I borrowed a set of Zipps with CK hubs and they were extremely loud to the point of being unacceptable. YMMV.
Hermes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-07, 07:34 PM   #4
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Bikes: Rans Rockst (Retro rocket) Rans Enduro Sport (Retro racket) Catrike 559, Merin Bear Valley (beater bike).
Posts: 26,631
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
When my Mavic rims that came stock on my Santana started shedding their eyelets, I relaced the hubs onto Velocity Dyad rims. They were the roundest and truest rims that I have ever built. I was over the moon with how well the wheel build process went. After laceing and tensioning one of the wheels required only minor final trueing and the other required NO final trueing at all.
Retro Grouch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-07, 07:47 PM   #5
dvs cycles
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: SoCal
Bikes:
Posts: 1,163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
When my Mavic rims that came stock on my Santana started shedding their eyelets, I relaced the hubs onto Velocity Dyad rims. They were the roundest and truest rims that I have ever built. I was over the moon with how well the wheel build process went. After laceing and tensioning one of the wheels required only minor final trueing and the other required NO final trueing at all.
Which Mavic rims and how long ago was that?
I've built upmany Mavic sets for myself and friends and find ever since they started welding the seems the wheels almostr true themselves.
Never had an eyelet problem though I've never built Tandem wheels yet.
Our Santana came with 36 spoke Hadley hubs laced to FIR rims.
Only 2200 miles on them so far but still very true.
dvs cycles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-07, 08:39 PM   #6
TandemGeek
hors category
 
TandemGeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 7,210
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvs cycles View Post
Which Mavic rims and how long ago was that?
If I may... Mavic had a bad run of T217 rims back in the '98 - '99 time frame. The problems ranged from a simple but persistent and annoying creak attributed to a poor weld joint / connecting pins, to loosening & noisy eyelets, to excessive spoke breakage, to very nasty fatigue cracks and rim failures. Mavic was good about replacing customer rims, but didn't cover the cost of the rebuild. Coincidently, Velocity happened onto the tandem scene about this same time and benefited greatly as many former Mavic users moved to their Deep-V and Dyad rims which have proven to be exceptionally well-suited for tandems. The Fusion was added a bit later as a lighter-weight, semi-aero alternative to the Deep-V for those who were put off by the 520g - 550g weight of the very deep section Deep-V.

We were fortunate in that our '96 vintage Mavic T217s were robust and problem-free, as were our '98 vintage CXP-30 deep section rims. It was Mavic's decision to discontinue the CXP30 and move towards integrated wheelsets that sent me to the Velocity Deep-V's for our road tandems: as noted, they have been exceptional mated to both Phil Wood FSC hubs and White Industries Racer-X hubs.

We vacilated back and forth on staying with the Deep-Vs on our new tandem and I finally decided to experiment with both the Fusion rim and a set of low-spoke count racing wheels, so as to expand our first hand experience with these products. That said, any of the Velocity rims marketed for tandems are a good choice for all-around use, e.g., the aforementioned Deep-V, Fusion, Dyad, Aerohead and Aerohead OC. As for hubs, there's no question that the Chris King's are the king-of-bling and pretty much bomb-proof. We use them on our off-road tandem. However, if you are price sensitive I'd suggest giving the White Industries hubsets a look-see. For non-disc equipped tandems they offer the 'Daisy' hubset. For discs, the MTB M16 disc hub mated to a non-disc M15 are essentially the same as the Racer-X that I have. The latter will be used with our Velocity Fusion rims.

For reference, we're about a 280lb team.

Last edited by TandemGeek; 03-02-08 at 09:30 PM.
TandemGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-07, 10:49 PM   #7
zonatandem
Senior Member
 
zonatandem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tucson, AZ
Bikes: Custom Zona c/f tandem + Scott Plasma single
Posts: 10,858
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
We use Velocity Aerohead rims, 32H front and 36H rear, paired to Chris King hubs and laced with DT Revolution spokes.
So far 17,000+ miles on those wheels, no problems, a couple very minor trueings.
We are a sub-250 lbs tandem duo.
Yes, the King rear hub 'hums' a bit when coasting so we affectionately refer to our Zona tandem as 'the Hummer.' After a while you just don't notice it.
On previous tandems used Phil Wood hubs (went 56,000+ miles without issues and one set went 64,000 miles) and various Mavic rims, which we considered a good value. Did crack Mavic rear rims (no front rims) anywhere from 15 to 25,000+ miles, but even that was acceptable to us. Just blame that on the stoker for torqueing too hard!
We had one Mavic/Phil combo front wheel that lasted 57,000 miles without any problems.
An expert tandem wheel builder is a huge +!
Just our experience.
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem
zonatandem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-07, 09:38 AM   #8
vtrich
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: vermont
Bikes: Guru Photon, seven road, Gunnar cross, Schwinn Homegrown mtn, and Paketa tandem
Posts: 60
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
THANKS for the input. I like Chris King hubs,...been using them on the single for quite awhile,..they're easy to service and their freewheel sound creates some curiosity/conversation amoung other riders.

Wow, Zona, revolutions,..I use them on the non-drive side and the front wheel of my single, but would have thought they were not robust enough for the tandem,..but then again,...you guys truly are light weights.

I'm hoping to stumble upon (guided to) a compromise between strength and lightweight,...don't really care about the aero thing. I'll look into the various Velocity rims,..I've never used them and an not very familiar.

Again,..thanks for the feedback.
Rich
vtrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-07, 11:05 AM   #9
joe@vwvortex
Senior Member
 
joe@vwvortex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vacaville, CA
Bikes: Co-Motion Speedster Tandem, S-works 29r, Specialized Tarmac SL4
Posts: 534
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Curious as to why nobody has used or recommends DiVinci's rims. Based upon the design and claimed weight - they seem to be a no brainer compared to Velocity etc. My buddy has a set on his new DiVinci and they look pretty damn nice.
joe@vwvortex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-07, 11:48 AM   #10
TandemGeek
hors category
 
TandemGeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 7,210
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe@vwvortex View Post
Curious as to why nobody has used or recommends DiVinci's rims. Based upon the design and claimed weight - they seem to be a no brainer compared to Velocity etc. My buddy has a set on his new DiVinci and they look pretty damn nice.
The Velocity is a very robust rim that is well suited for tandems that will run mid-width tires with average to above average weights. Many of the other popular rim offerings often times win out on weight, width, or other features that are attractive to teams looking for sport / performance wheels or, in the case of the Dyad, a very robust touring rim that will handle very large tires vis-a-vis the wider bead seat and higher spoke count.

The weights provided for the Velocity and Mavic rims are taken from the Weight Weenies site and not the manufacturer. All should be considered approximate and somewhat variable within 5%.
daVinci V-22 = 22mm W x 24mm H @ 560 gr in 36/40h drillings: silver

Mavic CXP33 = 19.4 mm W x 23.6mm H @ 455 gr in 28 - 36h drillings: black or silver

Velocity Aerohead = 20mm W x 21mm H @ 435 gr in 28 - 36h drillings: various colors

Velocity Dyad = 24mm W x 22mm H @ 523 gr in 32 - 48h drillings: black or silver

Velocity Fusion = 19mm W x 25mm H @ 475 gr in 18 - 40h drillings: black or silver

Velocity Deep-V = 19mm W x 30mm H @ 550 gr in 18 - 48h drillings: various colors

Last edited by TandemGeek; 12-20-07 at 12:06 PM.
TandemGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-07, 03:26 PM   #11
joe@vwvortex
Senior Member
 
joe@vwvortex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vacaville, CA
Bikes: Co-Motion Speedster Tandem, S-works 29r, Specialized Tarmac SL4
Posts: 534
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TandemGeek View Post
The Velocity is a very robust rim that is well suited for tandems that will run mid-width tires with average to above average weights. Many of the other popular rim offerings often times win out on weight, width, or other features that are attractive to teams looking for sport / performance wheels or, in the case of the Dyad, a very robust touring rim that will handle very large tires vis-a-vis the wider bead seat and higher spoke count.

The weights provided for the Velocity and Mavic rims are taken from the Weight Weenies site and not the manufacturer. All should be considered approximate and somewhat variable within 5%.
daVinci V-22 = 22mm W x 24mm H @ 560 gr in 36/40h drillings: silver

Mavic CXP33 = 19.4 mm W x 23.6mm H @ 455 gr in 28 - 36h drillings: black or silver

Velocity Aerohead = 20mm W x 21mm H @ 435 gr in 28 - 36h drillings: various colors

Velocity Dyad = 24mm W x 22mm H @ 523 gr in 32 - 48h drillings: black or silver

Velocity Fusion = 19mm W x 25mm H @ 475 gr in 18 - 40h drillings: black or silver

Velocity Deep-V = 19mm W x 30mm H @ 550 gr in 18 - 48h drillings: various colors
Yeah - it's a bit heavier - but then again it appears to be a stronger designed rim - with the inner reinforcements. My same friend had Velocity's on his previous bike and had two case where the rear rim separated/fractured at the braking surface. Then again - he also opted for the 26" wheels on his new DaVinci.
joe@vwvortex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-07, 09:28 AM   #12
RickinFl
Terri's Captain
 
RickinFl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 101
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just rebuilt my wheels using Velocity Fusion rims with DT Champion 2.0 spokes. The hubs are DT Hugi Tandem 36 spoke.

I like these wheels a lot, and the Fusion rim seems to give a better ride than the Alex 390 rims that we wore out. I'm a fan of straight gauge spokes on tandems because you can build a wheel that is more laterally stiff that way as opposed to butted spokes. Lateral stiffness is a really good thing in tandem wheels. People like to argue about it, but there is research showing that lateral stiffness of a bicycle wheel depends on one thing- total cross section of the spokes used. The weight difference between butted and straight is negligible, and makes little difference on a tandem unless you are just a die hard weight weenie.

You didn't mention what size tires you intend to use, but that will make a difference in your rim selection. If you plan to use 700x25 or less, the rim really should be no wider than 19 or 20mm (Fusion, Deep-V). Wider rims such as the Dyad will not comfortably mount a 25. It can work, but the beads don't seat properly, and on a tandem that can be a matter of concern.

This can all be considered a matter of opinion on my part, but I've discovered these things through experience.

Rick
RickinFl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-07, 09:43 AM   #13
vtrich
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: vermont
Bikes: Guru Photon, seven road, Gunnar cross, Schwinn Homegrown mtn, and Paketa tandem
Posts: 60
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks Rickin,..we plan on continuing to use 25mm tires. We've used different tires depending on the season, Armadillo type in springtime and and Mich pro race or Contis once roads are sufficiently clean,..but usually 25mm. So, thanks, rim section is definately an important conideration.
vtrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:55 AM.