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  1. #1
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    cannondale road tandem,purchase?

    hi, looking at new road tandem to buy. im stuck and need your help in making decision.used - 1996 santana sovriegn alum @ $2,800 or new- 2007 cannondale 2 @ $2,900 ??????????? any input welcome

  2. #2
    Ride it like you stole it WheresWaldo's Avatar
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    I have a 2005 Cannondale Road Tandem and love it. I think for the money the Cannondales are a bargain. The Santana is 12 years old and a lot has happened technology wise in those dozen years. I am also assuming the Santana is from a private party and the Cannondale from a dealer, if so then you may be able to get a discount on accessories, if you don't already have a relationship with the bike shop. But please note that my view is biased as I have not ridden any other tandem other than our Cannondale.
    "Never use your face as a brake pad" - Jake Watson
    The Incidental Cyclist - Cycling in and around Union County

  3. #3
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eliisadick View Post
    hi, looking at new road tandem to buy. im stuck and need your help in making decision.used - 1996 santana sovriegn alum @ $2,800 or new- 2007 cannondale 2 @ $2,900 ??????????? any input welcome
    $2,800 would be a bit high for the Santana unless it was in pristine condition and updated with newer components then those installed on it when it was sold new. Average condition would be closer to $2k and very good $2,400, maybe $2,500 excluding any accessories that might be coming with it. More on buying / pricing used tandems here: http://www.thetandemlink.com/usedhome.html

    The C'dale Tandem 2 is a very nice package with a very attractive price: lots of bang for the buck. However, since it's new you'll take the initial depreciation hit. That's about the only down side that I can think of without knowing a lot more about your cycling / tandeming background and how this tandem will be used, e.g., team size/weight, riding plans, etc...

    Someone longish test rides on both tandems (more than a couple of spins around the block), if at all possible, would be the usual recommendation.
    Last edited by TandemGeek; 12-31-07 at 09:51 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by eliisadick View Post
    hi, looking at new road tandem to buy. im stuck and need your help in making decision.used - 1996 santana sovriegn alum @ $2,800 or new- 2007 cannondale 2 @ $2,900 ??????????? any input welcome
    Like Tandemgeek said the Santana is high unless it has all the latest uprades in components, fork, wheels. I would try for a much lower price on the Santana and add the upgrades myself over time as I learned more about what I wanted. I am biased towards Santana however.

  5. #5
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    I'm biased towards Cannondale's in general because I think they are a real value for the money. But that aside, in your particular case, I'm even more so because of the age of the Santana. The new components and frame of the C'dale, plus the enthsiastic support and free setup/ fine tuning of the LBS is a huge value... IMHO.
    Either way...you are headed for great fun in '08. Congratulations

    Bill J.

  6. #6
    Senior Member stokessd's Avatar
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    I've got the road C'dale from '07. As you can imagine, the seat are total crap and super painful. The timing chain gave me troubles and I had to replace it. Other than that, it's been a very nice ride.

    Here's some things I don't like about the c'dale minor nits:

    * The truvative cranks are pretty crappy finish wise and they aren't machined well. he timing rings are so offcenter that I can't completely center them. I've tried flipping, and rotating each one relative to the spiders etc.

    * The warning label under the clearcoat plain sucks.

    * The brake lines are attached to the frame with zip-ties. This is really bush league and has no place on a nearly $3k bike.

    * The dropouts in the back should be redesigned so a rack is easier to mount.

    * The stroker suspension seatpost sucks, it sticks like crazy, and only constant cleaning makes it almost work properly.


    All in all the cannondale has been a good bike for the wife and I. I'd probably go for the santana, but I am not a big fan of brifers, particularly the crap shimano front derailleur implementation.


    Sheldon

  7. #7
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    I think it would be a mistake to buy a 12 year old bike particularly aluminium unless it's very cheap. Not so much because aluminium has a limited fatigue life, but simply because frame and tube design has moved on significantly and more recently designed aluminium tandems will be more rigid and lighter than a cutting edge 12 year old. Also I don't like Santana's proprietary bottom brackets and rear wheel spacing.

    Components have also moved on significantly - your Shimano Dura Ace of 12 years ago is not as good as today's 105. Wheels haven't so much, but the problem will be that non-10 speed gears will be more difficult to get hold of. Carbon forks on modern tandems also make a big difference (Not that the Dale has them).

    In the end though the better bike for you will be the one that fits best. If the Santana fits I would offer an amount which leaves you able to invest in carbon forks and majority of a groupset for a similar price as the cannondale.

  8. #8
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    Have you looked at a Trek T1000 $2500ish or T2000? If you don't think the disc brakes on the Cannondale are must-haves, then the T1000 is excellent value for money and the T2000 is pretty much race ready without spending $$$ on a co-motion or calfee.

  9. #9
    Senior Member zonatandem's Avatar
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    The 'tana is w-a-y over priced. Tried to sell a 10 year old 'tana for a friend and took 2 years to get rid of it for them.
    Agree with others, components have changed a lot in the last dozen years; we'd bet on the C'dale.
    Just our opinion.

  10. #10
    Senior Member stokessd's Avatar
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    Components have also moved on significantly - your Shimano Dura Ace of 12 years ago is not as good as today's 105. Wheels haven't so much, but the problem will be that non-10 speed gears will be more difficult to get hold of. Carbon forks on modern tandems also make a big difference (Not that the Dale has them).
    I call shenanigans on that. As a rider of 25 year old campy gear, as well as 10-15 year old shimano gear. The modern stuff is different' but not clearly better in any way. In fact the finish and durability has dropped dramatically. 3000 miles for a chain, please... If you like the "no user serviceable parts" mentality of Shimano brifters then enjoy them, but I for one don't think that newer is necessarily better.


    Sheldon

  11. #11
    Senior Member zonatandem's Avatar
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    We, at times, are also retrogrouches; complexity of new brifters, durability of 10-speed chains and replacing/adjusting pads on those wonderul disc brakes can get to wear a bit thin.
    So we get what we want and have a mix of hi-tech and lo-tech on our twicer. Carbon fiber frame and toeclips, c/f handlebars and barcon shifters, and rim brakes and hi-tech wheels all co-exist on our tandem.
    Whatever keeps the duo happy!
    Pedal on TWOgether!
    Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

  12. #12
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    done

    HI, all i really needed was a little nudge, and your logic was well timed. went with the Cdale. the lbs gave me a huge discount on account the year 07 was almost done. sealed the deal and pick-up bike after free fitting included. big thanks Waldo...happy new year

  13. #13
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    I just bought a new C'dale Road tandem last week...

    I'm happy with my purchase ('08 C'Dale Road 2). Mindless ramblings follow:

    If money was no object, I would have bought a Co-Motion, or a Longbikes Jetstream (recumbent).

    C'dale makes a descent bike, but they are not the holy grail. I not fanatical on them, so my rose colored glasses on my new purchase are probably a shade lighter than most. I think you pay a little extra for the Cannondale name, but not as much extra as some other brands.

    Likewise I love my Specialized mountain bikes, but if money was no object, I would have a fleet of Ventanas, including a off-road tandem.

    My wife & I bought our first tandem when I was stationed at Pearl Harbor (Submariner). It was a Trek T50 or something. We put over 1,000 miles on it in a few months. Rode it for a little over a year, then sold it when we moved. It was an OK bike, but was actually too small for me. So after 10 years, we decided to get back into tandeming.

    The handlebars on C'Dale are 42cm, but my Specialized Roubaix is 44cm, odd at first. Getting my Captain's legs back, I was wishing for that extra 2cm of leverage. The diameter seems smaller than my Roubaix as well, maybe it's the bar tape? Will have to investigate. Are all bars the same diameter?

    The Avid disc brakes clank/make slight noise over rough/chip seal roads at speed.

    We put the pedals 90 OOP per the advise of the Masters here on the forum. I think it eases the strain on the drivetrain/improves shifting, but what do I know?

    The seats do not match our butts. New Brooks B17 and Terry Butturfly in mail now from E-Bay.

    I would have prefered red or yellow, or something bright, black shows smudges/dirt horribly.

    I put a Cane Creek ST Thudbuster on for stoker before we rode it first time. We had a Tamer something with elastomers on the Trek in Hawaii. Remember, when the wife is not happy, nobody is happy....

    My wife & I rode the new bike 3 times total in the last week, 25/30/& 60 miles.

    I put an Ultegra 12-27 cassette on. Replaced the IRD 11-34, it did not shift near as well as any other bike I have, mtn or road. I fiddled with the derailleur for over an hour and could not get the shifting to work equally well on both ends of the cassette. Too slow to downshift on some gears, adjust, too slow to upshift on certain gears, etc. etc. I know that tandems are notorious for sluggish shifting, but the IRD was unacceptable. The new cassette is like night & day. Shifts great right off teh bat. Not sure we can make all the local hills with the 27, guess we'll find out.

    I shortened the shifter housings. I do this on all my bikes. Seems they are always too long and rub the paint off the headtube. Hydraulic brakes on my mtn bikes are always notoriously long.

    2-pr new Shimano Ultegra SPD pedals from E-bay, half price of Performance (where I used to work as an accountant, no Performance salesman flames please).

    I bought a quick release rear tire rack, but it did not fit. The angle of the clamp/neck only gave me 1/2" clearance and I could flex the beam to touch the tire. Disc-compatible rack from REI on order.

    Put a Yakima Sidewinder rack on my Honda Civic. Nice rack.

    Cateye Micro computer, so I know how slow I'm going.

    The 10-speed chain has a SRAM 9-speed quick link. I can close my eyes and feel the link come through my hands when I am wiping down the chain after we ride. That can not be right. Does SRAM make a quick-link in 10-speed size. Will have to find out.

    The timing chain has too much slack, will have to adjust soon.

    Where was I going with this.... Oh yeah, I like the bike. I only know of two nice entry-level mass-produced tandems that you can find in a store; C'Dale and Trek. We can not buy anything Trek, because my wife HATES Lance Armstrong because he left his beautiful wife and kids. Don't get her started. I had to sneak watching the Tour De France. She always was rooting for Ulrich to diesel over Lance.

    Anyways, the Cannondale is an obvious choice for an nice entry-level tandem. Not as nice/fancy as a Co-Motion or Divinci or others, but still a decent machine that should perform nicely for many years.
    08 Cannondale Road Tandem 2 (ours)
    07 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Expert (wife's)
    06 Specialized Roubaix Elite (mine)
    06 Cannondale Synapse (wife's)
    04 Specialized Enduro Comp (mine)

  14. #14
    Senior Member zonatandem's Avatar
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    Eliisadick: congrats on the C'dale purchase! A great way to start off a new year; maybe you can sneak out for a spin today?!
    Weaklink: Most production tandems will need some fiddling with stuff that does not suit the riders.
    Saddles are a common issue . . . too soft, too narrow etc.
    Handlebars are easy to switch out with the bolts that you remove from stem instead of the old way of unwrapping half of the bar and sneaking/twisting the bar out of the stem.
    Color . . . if you get a great deal and really don't like the bike's color (is black faster looking than red?) you can cheaply customize it with couple decals (auto part store), rattle can gold overspray accents on black, or go all the way by stripping down the bike and forking over the $$ for custom paint.
    Or be philosophical by saying black is the easiest to touch up (unlesss you get into metallics).
    While looks of the bike can be important to owners, it's the actual ride that tells the tale.
    And if the current tandem is not to your liking, hey you learned what to avoid on the next twicer. Or just save your $$ and design your own custom. Experience is the best teacher.
    We tend to nitpick on what we want in our tandems and yes, we've kept all our custom tandems a minimum of 50,000 miles.
    In the meantime, enjoy what you've got!
    Pedal on TWOgether into 2008!
    Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

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    HI , Rudy and Kay thanks for the kind words,in as much as i would like to ride outside today on the new cdale, ten cm of fresh snow piled up. boo-hoo,lol . the cdale is currently mounted on kurt kinetics fluid trainer. great for piling on training kms. to get ready for drier days. LBS gave me the cdale for $600 less than $2900. $2300.before taxes. you should have seen the grin on me and the mrs. face. we were ecstatic. this is our second tandem. Kuwahara transcontinental was our first new tandem,bought new in 1986, ishiwata chrome-moly,sugino equip, bunch of tires,chains , freewheels,br.pads, new rims and several bar tapes later, and the bike still looks as new as the day we got her.winter in Toronto, Canada can be unpredictable , sometimes,. ohh well if you get lemons.........cheers

  16. #16
    Newbie but oldbie
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    Hi eliisadick, congratulations on your new beauty. I hope you enjoy it even half as much as my wife and I have enjoyed our '07 Cannondale. I'll defer to more seasoned pros here re: the overall characteristics of the bike. All I can say is that I'm very impressed by it and think it's a tremendous deal. Except for changing out seats and tires, we ride ours 100% off the rack.

    Andy

  17. #17
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    Hi Andy, im sure that the cdale will not disappoint. will be moving the Terry saddles over and same with Look pedals. ive decided that would be most cost effective,since ive now got several bikes and one pair of shoes. the toughest part of deciding which tandem was made a lot easier with everyones input, im most grateful........cheers

  18. #18
    Senior Member zonatandem's Avatar
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    Kuwahara?! A blast from the past!
    Have seen a few Kuwas, years ago; either white or blue paint with rainbow colors, actually quite attractive and a nice tandem.
    Decades ago did spend a few weekends in Toronto and environs including a tandem rally in Guelph, Ont, back in 1987.
    Enjoy the new ride, TWOgether!
    Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

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