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  1. #1
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    Our '95 Santana Sovereign web gallery

    I've had the Sovereign for a few weeks now; and thank you - this forum was a great place to research before buying our tandem.

    I posted a web gallery on my website if you're interested in seeing our Santana.

    http://thinkcooper.com/Galleries/San..._Web/index.htm

  2. #2
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    Nice looking bike and that SACHS stuff is sweet. Enjoy the bike.

    KRhea

  3. #3
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Our '95/96 Arriva was the same Royal Plum color and had the same drivetrain: edco hubs, the really good XTR derailleurs, and even the Sachs P6000 (or what ever they called them). Nice stuff and a great color.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek View Post
    Our '95/96 Arriva was the same Royal Plum color and had the same drivetrain: edco hubs, the really good XTR derailleurs, and even the Sachs P6000 (or what ever they called them). Nice stuff and a great color.
    The color's called Royal Plum? Cool to know.

    I'm thinking of dumping the Sachs brifters in favor of Diacompe 287V levers and Dura-ace barends. I'd like to convert it to a ten speed 11-32 IRD cassette, and the bar-ends are the most economical way I can come up with.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRhea View Post
    Nice looking bike and that SACHS stuff is sweet. Enjoy the bike.

    KRhea
    Thanks for the compliments. We're really happy with the four bike - four rides in the last week and change, including a 43 miler with ~2500 feet of climbing. I'm contemplating ditching the Sachs shifters. Any idea if they can be adapted to drive a ten speed cassette?

  6. #6
    Member Bob B's Avatar
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    Sachs

    Nice!

    I had Sachs shifters in my old tandem. I really liked them. Great feel, great performance. They are essentially Campy set up for Shimano spacing. I liked the feel of them maybe even better that the Chorus that was on my half-bike.

    If it were my tamden, I'd keep 'em. It looks like you have an 8-speed setup. Unless you have a couple drivetrain components ready to bite the dust, I wouldn't be itchin' to upgrade to the 10-speed cassette. But that's just me...

    Enjoy!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob B View Post
    Nice!

    I had Sachs shifters in my old tandem. I really liked them. Great feel, great performance. They are essentially Campy set up for Shimano spacing. I liked the feel of them maybe even better that the Chorus that was on my half-bike.

    If it were my tamden, I'd keep 'em. It looks like you have an 8-speed setup. Unless you have a couple drivetrain components ready to bite the dust, I wouldn't be itchin' to upgrade to the 10-speed cassette. But that's just me...

    Enjoy!

    Thanks for the feedback Bob - All the Sachs/XTR 8 speed components and cassette are in great working order at this point. The toughest part for me is getting used to the ergo shifting technique. I ride DuraAce 7800 on my primary road bike, 9 speed DA bar-ends on my cyclocross Hunter, and 8 speed grip shifts on my vintage MTB, so going back and forth has me fumbling a bit here and there.

    I badly threw a shift on an incline last week and dropped my chain mid-hill. That was due to not knowing where on the rear cassette I was and dropping form the outer to the middle chain-ring then onto the granny gear. Turns out I was on my 13 or 14 tooth on the rear and introduced a little too much chain slack for the derailleur to take up, so the chain came off. Otherwise, it's been shifting fine, and the front derailleur is easily trimmable with the Sachs Ergo system. I guess I just don't want to have to learn another

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by thinkcooper View Post
    Thanks for the feedback Bob - All the Sachs/XTR 8 speed components and cassette are in great working order at this point. The toughest part for me is getting used to the ergo shifting technique. I ride DuraAce 7800 on my primary road bike, 9 speed DA bar-ends on my cyclocross Hunter, and 8 speed grip shifts on my vintage MTB, so going back and forth has me fumbling a bit here and there.

    I badly threw a shift on an incline last week and dropped my chain mid-hill. That was due to not knowing where on the rear cassette I was and dropping form the outer to the middle chain-ring then onto the granny gear. Turns out I was on my 13 or 14 tooth on the rear and introduced a little too much chain slack for the derailleur to take up, so the chain came off. Otherwise, it's been shifting fine, and the front derailleur is easily trimmable with the Sachs Ergo system. I guess I just don't want to have to learn another
    When you get over the cost of the new bike you might want to upgrade the shifters F&R Der. and cassette to 10speed. Our Santana came with Ultegra 10 and I ride D/A 10 on my singles.
    I might upgrade to D/A for the tandem but it works almost as smooth as D/A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dvs cycles View Post
    When you get over the cost of the new bike you might want to upgrade the shifters F&R Der. and cassette to 10speed. Our Santana came with Ultegra 10 and I ride D/A 10 on my singles.
    I might upgrade to D/A for the tandem but it works almost as smooth as D/A.
    I was gonna go the cheap route, as in 10 speed shimano chain, IRD cassette and DA 10 speed bar-ends. I've tested a XTR M900 rear derailleur on my road bike, and it works fine with my current DA 7800 brifters. The only tight spot might be the XTR front chainrings, but I've a hunch they'll fit between the 10 speed chain plates fines.

    Adding up all those bits on eBay I'd be into the 8 to 10 speed conversion for less than $250 max.

  10. #10
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    One thing to investigate could be changing the indexing piece in the lever to Campagnolo 10 speed. That way you can limit the number of parts you need to upgrade and keep the nice levers.

    I upgraded my 8 speed Record levers to 9 speed a few years ago and only needed to change the right-hand ratchet, re-lube and the shifting was as good as new. The part cost 10. The changeover is complicated the first time as you have to disassemble the RH level, but with experience this can be done in 1/2h. I think an upgrade to 10 speeds is possible as Jan Ullrich always used to ride old shape levers on 10-speed, so clearly the changeover is possible. I think you could also keep the derailleur as Campag 10 speed shifts are almost exactly the same as DA. You just need to rewire your brain a bit to run Campag / STI but given time both feel natural and you will end up switching after 5 minutes riding each bike.

    Whether you really need 10 speed is another question. We have 9 speed Ultegra on the tandem and run various 10 speed Dura Ace and Record setups on single bikes and don't really notice the difference between 9 and 10 speeds. You can also get slightly used 9 speed DA on ebay for a nice price. I find the 9 speed Ultegra shifters have a better 'clunk' than the 10 speeds, so more positive.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by thinkcooper View Post
    I was gonna go the cheap route, as in 10 speed shimano chain, IRD cassette and DA 10 speed bar-ends. I've tested a XTR M900 rear derailleur on my road bike, and it works fine with my current DA 7800 brifters. The only tight spot might be the XTR front chainrings, but I've a hunch they'll fit between the 10 speed chain plates fines.

    Adding up all those bits on eBay I'd be into the 8 to 10 speed conversion for less than $250 max.
    I myself prefer all my bikes to shift the same.

  12. #12
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dvs cycles View Post
    I myself prefer all my bikes to shift the same.
    +1

    The last thing I want to think about when riding on the road is which lever does what: all of my road bikes use the same type of shifter functionality, e.g., Campy Ergo. It keeps it intuitive which reduces task load and eliminates mis-shifts.
    Last edited by TandemGeek; 03-14-08 at 08:42 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dvs cycles View Post
    I myself prefer all my bikes to shift the same.
    Agreed. Currently, I'm fine with my two drop bar bike shifting systems (bar-ends and DA brifters). The Ergo lever (shift system #3 for me) works great, but I find myself hitting the wrong lever sometimes still. Maybe I'm a slow learner.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrfish View Post
    One thing to investigate could be changing the indexing piece in the lever to Campagnolo 10 speed. That way you can limit the number of parts you need to upgrade and keep the nice levers.

    I upgraded my 8 speed Record levers to 9 speed a few years ago and only needed to change the right-hand ratchet, re-lube and the shifting was as good as new. The part cost 10. The changeover is complicated the first time as you have to disassemble the RH level, but with experience this can be done in 1/2h. I think an upgrade to 10 speeds is possible as Jan Ullrich always used to ride old shape levers on 10-speed, so clearly the changeover is possible. I think you could also keep the derailleur as Campag 10 speed shifts are almost exactly the same as DA. You just need to rewire your brain a bit to run Campag / STI but given time both feel natural and you will end up switching after 5 minutes riding each bike.

    Whether you really need 10 speed is another question. We have 9 speed Ultegra on the tandem and run various 10 speed Dura Ace and Record setups on single bikes and don't really notice the difference between 9 and 10 speeds. You can also get slightly used 9 speed DA on ebay for a nice price. I find the 9 speed Ultegra shifters have a better 'clunk' than the 10 speeds, so more positive.
    If I could confirm that the levers are upgradeable by swapping out the current Shimano 8 speed disc for a 10 speed disc I'd be a happy camper, aside from one personal issue - Both my DA7800 levers and the bar-ends give me a clue as to what cassette cog I'm on. The DA lever uses one of those "in-cable" indicators, and the bar-ends indicate gearing selection by their angle. Both help me quickly gauge when it's time to shift onto a different chain ring. If the Sachs/Campy Ergo system had an indicator, I'd be fine with the five minute long re-orientation.

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