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  1. #1
    Sheik Yerbouti voldemort's Avatar
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    I'm Still Looking

    What do you think of this bike and price. BIGBIGBIG issue is...it's in California, I'm in Chicago. IF it were available in Chicago, and I found it was a good fit, what would you say about it?

    Thanks, Greg

    03/22/08: KHS Roma Road Tandem 20" x 18" 7000 Series Aluminum frame Red and Black Finish Magura Hydraulic Brakes Arai drum drag brake Speedplay Frog pedals - 2 sets Shimano Bar-Con Shifters Shimano 8-speed Drivetrain XT Rear Mech. 40 Spoke Wheels 160mm spacing (wheels) Adjustable Stoker Stem Excellent Condition $1200

    I donít know if you are familiar with Magura brakes, but I replaced the ďVĒ brakes that came with the Roma with Magura HS66 hydraulic rim brakes which were pretty widely recognized as the best and most powerful rim brakes available for tandems. I donít think the drop bar levers are still available in the states, but the MTB lever version (HS33) is still sold here at between $200-250 a set. I paid $300 for the tandem set. The combination of the Maguras and the Arai rear drum drag brake make for serious stopping power.
    Suzy Creamcheese, what's got into you?

  2. #2
    Senior Member
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    I didn't think KHS tandems had 160mm rear spacing. Something to check. The frame is the smaller one of the two sizes KHS makes. Personally, I would not buy a used tandem at that distance unless it was a super deal (and trusted), and I don't think this qualifies. Move cautiously.

  3. #3
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voldemort View Post
    What do you think of this bike and price. BIGBIGBIG issue is...it's in California, I'm in Chicago. IF it were available in Chicago, and I found it was a good fit, what would you say about it?
    A new KHS Tandemania Milano (9 speed with STI, etc...) carries an MSRP of $1,570.00 and you can usually find new old stock models still sitting around in the Large size for $1,100 - $1,200. Therefore, despite the upgrades and the $2,300 MSRP from when it was probably new, the tandem is over priced at $1,200 based simply on fair market. $950 might be more in line.

    Quote Originally Posted by jgg3
    I didn't think KHS tandems had 160mm rear spacing.
    KHS flirted with 160mm rear spacing for a model year or two, and then reverted back to 145mm.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Rahzel's Avatar
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    TandemGeek,

    That seems to be the answer to a question that has been confusing me for a while about the "replacement value" of tandems. What you seem to be saying is that even though this particular tandem cost over $2000 when new, the replacement value of this tandem is the *equivalent current retail price* of a new tandem, similarly spec'd, from the same company? Is this correct?

  5. #5
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rahzel View Post
    What you seem to be saying is that even though this particular tandem cost over $2000 when new, the replacement value of this tandem is the *equivalent current retail price* of a new tandem, similarly spec'd, from the same company? Is this correct?
    No, that's not quite correct... Current replacement cost is simply used as a benchmark for establishing the fair market value of a used tandem. In other words, to figure out the fair market value of a 1998 brand x, mid-level tandem with mid-level components, you'd have to go and see what that brand x is now charging for the current incarnation of that tandem. This usually works pretty well for established brands that haven't screwed around with their business models and tandem pricing. For example, folks who purchased high-end KHS or Cannondale tandems -- and to a certain extent even some Burley owners -- really took it the neck when those companies changed their marketing strategies / profit expectations and lowered MSRPs on nearly equal models in subsequent years. Speaking of Burley, pricing a used Burley also represents a situation where a buyer must now find and equivalent brand/model to compare their Burley to given that Burley has gotten out of the tandem biz (at least for the time being).

    Anyway, most of these things are discussed in the narrative that accompanies my used tandem pricing tool: http://www.thetandemlink.com/usedhome.html

    Replacement Cost is addressed right up front and here's an extract:

    1. USING THE TOOL:

    A. INPUT REPLACEMENT COST: All calculations in the spreadsheet are based on the value placed in the "Replacement Cost" cell.

    a). REPLACEMENT COST: Use the current replacement value of the equivalent brand and model for all tandems, including the replacement cost of any accessories that are being included with the tandem. Replacement cost is used since it more accurately reflects the current state of the economy and the new product a tandem buyer would most likely be weighing the value of the used tandem against. It also eliminates issues associated with what a seller actually paid for a tandem since that is not relevant to fair market value.

    b). PRICING ANOMALIES: In some cases a tandem up for re-sale may have originally been purchased as a demo, as part of a special promotion, as a previous model year close out or as a second hand tandem from the original owner. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume the asking price for a used tandem that was purchased for less than its original retail cost could be made significantly lower than for an identical tandem purchased at full or near full retail price being offered for re-sale by another seller. Under these circumstances the seller must decide if they want to base the asking price on the current replacement value of the tandem and potentially realize a higher return against their original expense, or to lower the current replacement value to calculate a "discounted" fair market value. If they elect to pass along their good fortune to the market it creates a pricing anomaly; something every buyer strives to find when shopping the tandem classified ads. As far as tandems which appear to be overvalued, every seller has a right to establish what they believe is a reasonable amount of return on their original investment. Moreover, the seller may have reason to believe there are certain features or intangibles that warrant the higher asking price. Ultimately, it all comes down to the premise that a tandem is actually worth what someone is willing to sell it for, or what someone else is willing to pay.

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