Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 29
  1. #1
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Jacksonville
    My Bikes
    Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er
    Posts
    27,159
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Dura Ace 10 speed cassette on a tandem

    Our new bike came with Dura Shifters and derailleurs, but an Ultegra level cassette.

    I'm wondering if this is a cost savings measure, on an item that doesn't stand out, or whether it's intentional for superior toughness/wear.

    I have a Dura Ace cassette, not in regular use, with the same gearing that I could swap out, and save about 60 grams. But I'm wondering whether I'll get excessive wear on the Ti cogs under the load of a tandem.

    Anyone running D/A cassettes on their tandem?
    Last edited by merlinextraligh; 05-22-08 at 03:43 PM. Reason: typos

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Portland, OR
    My Bikes
    Lots
    Posts
    570
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have a few steel/ti cassettes on some bikes and can vouch for the fact that they wear relatively quickly. Not that I'd suggest it for tandem usage but it's cool nonetheless.
    I don't think I'd ever run one on our tandem just for that fact. I'm also guessing, quite possibly incorrectly, that they would wear even faster with the stress of a tandem.

    Another note, the new 7800DA steel/ti cassette are said to have an improved surface treatment adding 30% longer life.

    I also have a very sweet KCNC cassette that weighs only 139g w/lock ring and has 2-ti, 4-scandium and 4-7075al cogs. The amazing thing is, I'm almost at 4000miles with minimal wear. They say 5000 miles is doable. Not that I'd suggest it for tandem usage but it's cool nonetheless.

    KRhea

  3. #3
    Senior Member embankmentlb's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    North, Ga.
    My Bikes
    Bernard Hinault Look - 1986 tour winner, Guerciotti, Various Klein's & Panasonic's
    Posts
    1,536
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I do not really have an answer for the wear issue. Do you think the 60 grams relative to the weight of the bike & two riders will change the way you enjoy your ride? Also, how do you 10 speed guys get away with only a 27 tooth climbing gear? That would not fly in North Ga. What have i missed?

  4. #4
    SWS: Small Wheel Syndrome kb5ql's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Palo Alto
    My Bikes
    Bike Friday Pocket Rocket/PedalForce RS2/Specialized Rock Hopper Xtracycle/Periscope Hammerhead
    Posts
    728
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by embankmentlb View Post
    I do not really have an answer for the wear issue. Do you think the 60 grams relative to the weight of the bike & two riders will change the way you enjoy your ride? Also, how do you 10 speed guys get away with only a 27 tooth climbing gear? That would not fly in North Ga. What have i missed?
    They are in Florida (aka "Flatsville, USA")


  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Portland, OR
    My Bikes
    Lots
    Posts
    570
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    "They" aren't all in Florida...We live in Portland OR so trust me, we have serious hills as well as many many mountains.

    Both my wife and I enjoy climbing, we work at it, we don't fear it or worry about it. We know how and when to use the right gear combo so we don't get bogged down and we consider it a challenge to climb well. We also climb 100% seated.
    We've yet to be "busted" by a climb including climbing into and out of the Columbia Gorge.
    We run a 53-42-30 x 12-28 10speed.

    At the 85mile point of the Reach The Beach Century from Portland to the Oregon Coast last weekend we passed 15 singles on the final climb of the day and never hit our granny.
    It's a momentum, cadence, rhythm thing for us. When all three of those elements are in accordance we climb really well. If one or more are "out of line" it's not a good thing on the climbs we have around here.


    KRhea

  6. #6
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Jacksonville
    My Bikes
    Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er
    Posts
    27,159
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by embankmentlb View Post
    I do not really have an answer for the wear issue. Do you think the 60 grams relative to the weight of the bike & two riders will change the way you enjoy your ride? Also, how do you 10 speed guys get away with only a 27 tooth climbing gear? That would not fly in North Ga. What have i missed?
    30 tooth small chainring.

    Actually our test for the new bike will be Brasstown. If we can do that ok we'll stay with the 30/27. If not, we'll still keep the 12-27 cassetter but go to a 26 chainring.

    And since we're getting ready to do Everest Challenge, I'm looking to get all the weight off me and the bike as possible.

    60 grams obviously isn't much. But 60 here, 80 there, I'm thinking the bike can be 1/2 to 1lb lighter without compromising performance, or costing a mint.

    And 1lb lifted over 29,000 feet actually does make a measurable difference.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Portland, OR
    My Bikes
    Lots
    Posts
    570
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post

    And 1lb lifted over 29,000 feet actually does make a measurable difference.

    Amen.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,247
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ok, but since most 180 pound American males could/should lose 15 or 20 pounds.... and 60 grams is less than 0.2 pounds, and most couples could lose 30 pounds between the both of them....eating healthy and training can improve your climbing roughly 100 times better than the 60 grams saved with the DA cassette ( actually 150 times using the above example).

    Stop eating all high fat, high salt processed foods....and you will lose weight and climb better, not to mention reduce your blood pressure and heart problems risk.

  9. #9
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Jacksonville
    My Bikes
    Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er
    Posts
    27,159
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    totally agree. But the two ideas are not competitive. There is only so much weight I can, or wil, lose. That's is going to happen regardlessof what the bike weighs.

    So am I better off (performance wise, not economically) 1) losing ten pounds and keeping the bike's weight the same, or 2) losing tenpounds and dropping the bike's weight a pound?
    )

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    88
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    We run a dura ace 9-speed "11-23" (no 12) with a 28t ring. A couple thousand miles last year and wear is not noticable yet. And we climb everything but the steep pass close by with that cassette. I have to put on the 11-26 for that.

    Cool parts can be on the bike getting worn or can be on the shelf. But who needs museum bike parts sitting on the shelf?

  11. #11
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    7,151
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    Actually our test for the new bike will be Brasstown.
    Will you be fitting a rear disc for the descent?

  12. #12
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Jacksonville
    My Bikes
    Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er
    Posts
    27,159
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    We're goin to try riding it in the mountains some without the disc, and see how it goes, then decide. Had the frame built for a disc so we can put it on if we want.

  13. #13
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    7,151
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    We're goin to try riding it in the mountains some without the disc, and see how it goes, then decide. Had the frame built for a disc so we can put it on if we want.
    We've done a lot of mountain riding in North Georgia, Eastern Tennessee, and Western North Carolina using only rim brakes; however, there are a handful of climbs where a lot of caution is required and a broken-in rear disc (or drum) would be prudent. In Georgia, Brasstown Bald is one of those as is Wolfpen when ridden from Suches Gap to Vogel State Park. There are also a few climbs around Chattanooga that also warrant special attention to rim heating or a supplemental disc/drag brake.

  14. #14
    Ride it like you stole it WheresWaldo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Union County, NC
    My Bikes
    Pedal Force RS x 2 (DA, Red), Pedal Force MTB, Pedal Force Aeroblade, Steel SS/FG, Coming soon Rue Tandem
    Posts
    4,167
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Back to the cassette question, MEL I have two DA cassettes and many more Ultegra. On the single bikes I do see faster wear on the DA. The weight penalty for Ultegra is well worth the savings $$$$ between the two cassettes. I am even using the Ultegra on my current full DA road bike. I don't think I would use it for everyday riding on a tandem. We tend to pump out a little more power when climbing then while single bike riding.

    Now if you want to save weight and keep the wear level down, take a serious look at the SRAM Powerdome. I have one on an all RED bike and aside from the noise (as its hollowed out it sort of acts like a megaphone to amplify chain noise) being that it is all steel it should last much longer than the Ti cogs on the DA, much longer than any of the KCNC cassettes and between the weight of the two.

    Word is that SRAM will be introducing two new sizes this year so you should see an 11-28 perfect for tandem gearing later this year.
    "Never use your face as a brake pad" - Jake Watson
    The Incidental Cyclist - Cycling in and around Union County

  15. #15
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Jacksonville
    My Bikes
    Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er
    Posts
    27,159
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks. After I posted this, I started looking at SRAM RED. 11-28 would be perfect. The $230 price tag's a bit steep though.

  16. #16
    Ride it like you stole it WheresWaldo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Union County, NC
    My Bikes
    Pedal Force RS x 2 (DA, Red), Pedal Force MTB, Pedal Force Aeroblade, Steel SS/FG, Coming soon Rue Tandem
    Posts
    4,167
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    Thanks. After I posted this, I started looking at SRAM RED. 11-28 would be perfect. The $230 price tag's a bit steep though.
    Much cheaper on ebay, think around 180-190 w/shipping. Too bad the 11-28 isn't available until the fall.
    "Never use your face as a brake pad" - Jake Watson
    The Incidental Cyclist - Cycling in and around Union County

  17. #17
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    My Bikes
    Too Many
    Posts
    8,190
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    Thanks. After I posted this, I started looking at SRAM RED. 11-28 would be perfect. The $230 price tag's a bit steep though.
    I looked at SRAM Red as an alternative to D/A. The cassette is very cool. If it is availably, I think it is perfect for the EC. Otherwise, just get a D/A and use it for the EC. If it wears prematurely, then get another. IMHO, I do not think it will with any reasonable chain cleaning and etc.

    I just took my tandem to the LBS and made some changes for this coming month of races. I paid for some components and special setup that they installed and I will pay them to remove them later. It is the cost of optimization for races.

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    (BOS + PVD)/2
    Posts
    283
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I know that racing teams regularly use Ultegra cassettes on otherwise full DA bikes, just for cost reasons. It VERY common on full DA bikes sold at retail to provide Ultegra cassettes instead.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    53
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by merlin55 View Post
    Stop eating all high fat, high salt processed foods....and you will lose weight and climb better, not to mention reduce your blood pressure and heart problems risk.

    What is wrong with salt? My Doctor has me on a high salt diet to help with hydration. Only a small percentage of people with high blood pressure have a problem with salt.

  20. #20
    Senior Member 72andsunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    230
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by rfutscher View Post
    What is wrong with salt? My Doctor has me on a high salt diet to help with hydration. Only a small percentage of people with high blood pressure have a problem with salt.
    Wow...1st line therapy for (mild) hypertension is lifestyle modification (including but not limited to sodium reduction). 1st line pharmacologic treatment (in the absence of other compelling indications) is a thiazide diuretic. The primary action of action of a thiazide diuretic is to remove sodium from the body.

    Your tax dollars at work: http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/...on/express.pdf

  21. #21
    Double Secret Probation R900's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Eastern Indiana
    My Bikes
    Madone 6 series SSL, Cannondale CX9, Trek TTX, Trek 970, Trek T2000
    Posts
    2,579
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Cost savings. Many mfg's do the same thing (Ultegra group - 105 cassette, etc...) I get great life out of my DA cassettes, just like the rest of the drivetrain, clean and lube, and things will last a very long time.
    Time to Ride...

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    London, UK
    My Bikes
    Trek T200 plus enough others to fill a large shed
    Posts
    562
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have almost 8 years out of the Campag Ti/Steel cassette that came with my Record groupset. It has been cleaned regularly and I don't ride the bike over long distances in bad weather as it's on my best summer bike. Probably should be replaced now as the 21t cog occasionally slips if you sprint on it.

    The other thing to say on weight saving is that the cassette should be pretty low on the list as it's a consumable. Better to spend on bits like seatposts that will last for ever. Thomson masterpieces, syntace stems, syntace carbon bars and aluminium water bottle and other non-structural bolts will get the weight down quite significantly even versus other chi chi parts. Consumable spending starts with a pair of light inner tubes IMO.

    That said, if you really get the weight weenie bug, then you should bite the bullet and go for the lightest cassette that will survive the ride and accept that it will cost $$$. Just tell yourself it's much cheaper than motorsport and better for the environment!
    Last edited by mrfish; 05-23-08 at 04:07 PM.

  23. #23
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    7,151
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    For your trip up to Brasstown, you might want to pack a 32t or 34t cassette 'just in case'. It would be a shame to drive that far only to find out your gear selection was just a bit too aggressive / optimistic.

    Same thing for the rear disc. Brasstown is not the mountain I'd use as a beta test site for determining if it would be prudent to use a disc. Yes, you can ride the brakes for a while to keep your descent speed under control and stop a few times for rim cooling, but where's the joy in that?

    Hey, I could be way off base here... but here's a photo of Tandemracer and his lovely wife attacking Brasstown with their rarely seen disc fitted just before the Tour de Georgia came through, pre-child. At the time this photo was taken they were some of the strongest climbers we know and I believe even they may have gone with a cassette that was bit too aggressive for the upper section of the climb.



    You might send him a PM to get his impressions.

  24. #24
    Senior Member embankmentlb's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    North, Ga.
    My Bikes
    Bernard Hinault Look - 1986 tour winner, Guerciotti, Various Klein's & Panasonic's
    Posts
    1,536
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    To be honest i have never ridden Brasstown on a bike. I have hoofed it many times. It is steep! A couple of 1/4 mile sections are incredibly steep. 3 miles of hell.

  25. #25
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Jacksonville
    My Bikes
    Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er
    Posts
    27,159
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm familiar with Brasstown. I've done the Brasstown Bald Buster Century twice. (finished 10th and 14th).

    I know its very hard, particularly in the last 3 miles of 103 miles.

    Last year did my final training before Everest Challenge doing repeats of Hogpen and Brasstown. So I've got a good feel how it equates to the climbs in California.

    Thus by measuring our performance on the tandem on Brasstown, I'll have a pretty good feel for what we need for Everest Challenge.

    And unfortunately if we can't push a 30x27 up Brasstown,we probably can't make the elimination time on EC.

    and as for the descending we're taking the bike fora week in WestViriginia before that, which will give us achance topaly with the brakes.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •