merlinextraligh

Our new bike came with Dura Shifters and derailleurs, but an Ultegra level cassette.

I'm wondering if this is a cost savings measure, on an item that doesn't stand out, or whether it's intentional for superior toughness/wear.

I have a Dura Ace cassette, not in regular use, with the same gearing that I could swap out, and save about 60 grams. But I'm wondering whether I'll get excessive wear on the Ti cogs under the load of a tandem.

Anyone running D/A cassettes on their tandem?

KRhea

I have a few steel/ti cassettes on some bikes and can vouch for the fact that they wear relatively quickly. Not that I'd suggest it for tandem usage but it's cool nonetheless.
I don't think I'd ever run one on our tandem just for that fact. I'm also guessing, quite possibly incorrectly, that they would wear even faster with the stress of a tandem.

Another note, the new 7800DA steel/ti cassette are said to have an improved surface treatment adding 30% longer life.

I also have a very sweet KCNC cassette that weighs only 139g w/lock ring and has 2-ti, 4-scandium and 4-7075al cogs. The amazing thing is, I'm almost at 4000miles with minimal wear. They say 5000 miles is doable. Not that I'd suggest it for tandem usage but it's cool nonetheless.

KRhea

embankmentlb

I do not really have an answer for the wear issue. Do you think the 60 grams relative to the weight of the bike & two riders will change the way you enjoy your ride? Also, how do you 10 speed guys get away with only a 27 tooth climbing gear? That would not fly in North Ga. What have i missed?

kb5ql

They are in Florida (aka "Flatsville, USA")

KRhea

"They" aren't all in Florida...We live in Portland OR so trust me, we have serious hills as well as many many mountains.

Both my wife and I enjoy climbing, we work at it, we don't fear it or worry about it. We know how and when to use the right gear combo so we don't get bogged down and we consider it a challenge to climb well. We also climb 100% seated.
We've yet to be "busted" by a climb including climbing into and out of the Columbia Gorge.
We run a 53-42-30 x 12-28 10speed.

At the 85mile point of the Reach The Beach Century from Portland to the Oregon Coast last weekend we passed 15 singles on the final climb of the day and never hit our granny.
It's a momentum, cadence, rhythm thing for us. When all three of those elements are in accordance we climb really well. If one or more are "out of line" it's not a good thing on the climbs we have around here.


KRhea

merlinextraligh

30 tooth small chainring.

Actually our test for the new bike will be Brasstown. If we can do that ok we'll stay with the 30/27. If not, we'll still keep the 12-27 cassetter but go to a 26 chainring.

And since we're getting ready to do Everest Challenge, I'm looking to get all the weight off me and the bike as possible.

60 grams obviously isn't much. But 60 here, 80 there, I'm thinking the bike can be 1/2 to 1lb lighter without compromising performance, or costing a mint.

And 1lb lifted over 29,000 feet actually does make a measurable difference.

KRhea

Amen.

merlin55

Ok, but since most 180 pound American males could/should lose 15 or 20 pounds.... and 60 grams is less than 0.2 pounds, and most couples could lose 30 pounds between the both of them....eating healthy and training can improve your climbing roughly 100 times better than the 60 grams saved with the DA cassette ( actually 150 times using the above example).

Stop eating all high fat, high salt processed foods....and you will lose weight and climb better, not to mention reduce your blood pressure and heart problems risk.

merlinextraligh

totally agree. But the two ideas are not competitive. There is only so much weight I can, or wil, lose. That's is going to happen regardlessof what the bike weighs.

So am I better off (performance wise, not economically) 1) losing ten pounds and keeping the bike's weight the same, or 2) losing tenpounds and dropping the bike's weight a pound?
)

born2pdl

We run a dura ace 9-speed "11-23" (no 12) with a 28t ring. A couple thousand miles last year and wear is not noticable yet. And we climb everything but the steep pass close by with that cassette. I have to put on the 11-26 for that.

Cool parts can be on the bike getting worn or can be on the shelf. But who needs museum bike parts sitting on the shelf?

TandemGeek

Will you be fitting a rear disc for the descent?

merlinextraligh

We're goin to try riding it in the mountains some without the disc, and see how it goes, then decide. Had the frame built for a disc so we can put it on if we want.

TandemGeek

We've done a lot of mountain riding in North Georgia, Eastern Tennessee, and Western North Carolina using only rim brakes; however, there are a handful of climbs where a lot of caution is required and a broken-in rear disc (or drum) would be prudent. In Georgia, Brasstown Bald is one of those as is Wolfpen when ridden from Suches Gap to Vogel State Park. There are also a few climbs around Chattanooga that also warrant special attention to rim heating or a supplemental disc/drag brake.

WheresWaldo

Back to the cassette question, MEL I have two DA cassettes and many more Ultegra. On the single bikes I do see faster wear on the DA. The weight penalty for Ultegra is well worth the savings $$$$ between the two cassettes. I am even using the Ultegra on my current full DA road bike. I don't think I would use it for everyday riding on a tandem. We tend to pump out a little more power when climbing then while single bike riding.

Now if you want to save weight and keep the wear level down, take a serious look at the SRAM Powerdome. I have one on an all RED bike and aside from the noise (as its hollowed out it sort of acts like a megaphone to amplify chain noise) being that it is all steel it should last much longer than the Ti cogs on the DA, much longer than any of the KCNC cassettes and between the weight of the two.

Word is that SRAM will be introducing two new sizes this year so you should see an 11-28 perfect for tandem gearing later this year.

merlinextraligh

Thanks. After I posted this, I started looking at SRAM RED. 11-28 would be perfect. The $230 price tag's a bit steep though.

WheresWaldo

Much cheaper on ebay, think around 180-190 w/shipping. Too bad the 11-28 isn't available until the fall.

Hermes

I looked at SRAM Red as an alternative to D/A. The cassette is very cool. If it is availably, I think it is perfect for the EC. Otherwise, just get a D/A and use it for the EC. If it wears prematurely, then get another. IMHO, I do not think it will with any reasonable chain cleaning and etc.

I just took my tandem to the LBS and made some changes for this coming month of races. I paid for some components and special setup that they installed and I will pay them to remove them later. It is the cost of optimization for races.

jgg3

I know that racing teams regularly use Ultegra cassettes on otherwise full DA bikes, just for cost reasons. It VERY common on full DA bikes sold at retail to provide Ultegra cassettes instead.

rfutscher

What is wrong with salt? My Doctor has me on a high salt diet to help with hydration. Only a small percentage of people with high blood pressure have a problem with salt.

72andsunny

Wow...1st line therapy for (mild) hypertension is lifestyle modification (including but not limited to sodium reduction). 1st line pharmacologic treatment (in the absence of other compelling indications) is a thiazide diuretic. The primary action of action of a thiazide diuretic is to remove sodium from the body.

Your tax dollars at work: https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/...on/express.pdf

R900

Cost savings. Many mfg's do the same thing (Ultegra group - 105 cassette, etc...) I get great life out of my DA cassettes, just like the rest of the drivetrain, clean and lube, and things will last a very long time.

mrfish

I have almost 8 years out of the Campag Ti/Steel cassette that came with my Record groupset. It has been cleaned regularly and I don't ride the bike over long distances in bad weather as it's on my best summer bike. Probably should be replaced now as the 21t cog occasionally slips if you sprint on it.

The other thing to say on weight saving is that the cassette should be pretty low on the list as it's a consumable. Better to spend on bits like seatposts that will last for ever. Thomson masterpieces, syntace stems, syntace carbon bars and aluminium water bottle and other non-structural bolts will get the weight down quite significantly even versus other chi chi parts. Consumable spending starts with a pair of light inner tubes IMO.

That said, if you really get the weight weenie bug, then you should bite the bullet and go for the lightest cassette that will survive the ride and accept that it will cost $$$. Just tell yourself it's much cheaper than motorsport and better for the environment!

TandemGeek

For your trip up to Brasstown, you might want to pack a 32t or 34t cassette 'just in case'. It would be a shame to drive that far only to find out your gear selection was just a bit too aggressive / optimistic.

Same thing for the rear disc. Brasstown is not the mountain I'd use as a beta test site for determining if it would be prudent to use a disc. Yes, you can ride the brakes for a while to keep your descent speed under control and stop a few times for rim cooling, but where's the joy in that?

Hey, I could be way off base here... but here's a photo of Tandemracer and his lovely wife attacking Brasstown with their rarely seen disc fitted just before the Tour de Georgia came through, pre-child. At the time this photo was taken they were some of the strongest climbers we know and I believe even they may have gone with a cassette that was bit too aggressive for the upper section of the climb.



You might send him a PM to get his impressions.

embankmentlb

To be honest i have never ridden Brasstown on a bike. I have hoofed it many times. It is steep! A couple of 1/4 mile sections are incredibly steep. 3 miles of hell.

merlinextraligh

I'm familiar with Brasstown. I've done the Brasstown Bald Buster Century twice. (finished 10th and 14th).

I know its very hard, particularly in the last 3 miles of 103 miles.

Last year did my final training before Everest Challenge doing repeats of Hogpen and Brasstown. So I've got a good feel how it equates to the climbs in California.

Thus by measuring our performance on the tandem on Brasstown, I'll have a pretty good feel for what we need for Everest Challenge.

And unfortunately if we can't push a 30x27 up Brasstown,we probably can't make the elimination time on EC.

and as for the descending we're taking the bike fora week in WestViriginia before that, which will give us achance topaly with the brakes.