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  1. #1
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    New Cannondale geometry

    I was at my Cannondale dealer today and they were opening a box of 09 catalogs. Wonder of wonders, C'dale has changed their geometry!

    Highlights are: 4 sizes now instead of 5 on both the 700c and 26" models. Both models have the same lengths everywhere, but the 26 gets a 71 HA instead of 73 on the road.

    Probably the biggest and best news is the 27.1 inch stoker TT on the "S" rear is gone. "S" stokers now get a 28.6/72.6 top tube.

    The "X" front top tube goes from 60.5cm to 57.5. the"J" top tube goes from 62.5 to 60cm. Yes, the new J front is shorter than the old "X" front. The J front is paired with a "M" rear,which offers the stoker a 29.1/73.9 top tube.

    Other changes are: the disc mount is located on the chainstay now, and it -looks- in the catalog that the lateral tube goes into the boom tube in front of the BB.

    Lastly, headtubes look to be a little longer and the frames look to have more slope. I may be wrong about the slope, however.

    dan
    Last edited by dfcas; 08-30-08 at 06:37 PM.
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  2. #2
    Cycling since 1978 deanack's Avatar
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    But they DO NOT have the jumbo/Large any more. So if you need a larger frame tandem get a 08 NOW!
    Assenmacher - full Campy 27" - '81
    Giant Yukon - 24" - '07
    Cannondale Tandem - Road 2 25x21 - '08
    Trek 2.3 - 64cm - '10

  3. #3
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    The stoker compartment on the new J/M is the same as the old J/L, but the front top tube is shorter. The new headtube is longer.
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  4. #4
    Ride it like you stole it WheresWaldo's Avatar
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    Sounds like they are catering to even older riders who have lost some flexibility. I guess Cannondale thinks this is a good move as a tandem purchase may be getting harder and harder to justify as the cost rises and the age of those with discretionary income increases.

    Just a guess.
    "Never use your face as a brake pad" - Jake Watson

  5. #5
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    I think the change in headtube length may actually be a correction from the older ones that may have been derived during the threaded fork times. I thought the headtube was a little short on my old X/M.

    The increase in stoker TT lengths addresses the most common criticism of the "S" rear. The changes in the front fill the big hole that existed between the old "L" at 56.5 and the old "X" at 60.5.

    The losers in this are the really tall people who needed the 62.5 front TT.


    I dunno, I'm gettin really old and still have no discretionary income...
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  6. #6
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WheresWaldo View Post
    Sounds like they are catering to even older riders who have lost some flexibility.
    If I had to guess, they simply looked at their sales data and what competitors were offering and tweaked their product line... which is something they do almost every year, be it sizing, model offerings, or component levels.

    Up and until they gave their tandems the CAAD treatment in 1999 Cannondale had been known for offering more generous stoker compartments. Heck, up and until 2001 they also offered at least two different component grades for off-road tandems too... and they did away with the MT two years ago when it was re-branded the Street Tandem. BTW, the 26" MT / ST have always had 71 headtube angles whereas the RTs have had 73.

    Also, with respect to the loss of the super-large model, given that they do batch production I suspect if the decision comes back to bite them they will be able to re-introduce it without too much trouble.

    Bottom Line: Somebody's apparently paying attention to the bottom line at Cannondale and streamlining product offerings coupled with minor geometry tweaks are simply evidence that they have not forgotten the tandem line.

    Let's not forget, up and until last year there was only the RT: the RT2 and RT3 was clearly a market response to Burley's departure from the entry-level price point. In fact, the entry-level market was embraced by Co-Motion with a new low-cost Periscope Scout model and daVinci invested a ton of time and effort in developing a $2850 entry-level tandem that includes their patented independent coasting and dual disc brakes.

    I too noticed that the TXXXX models disappeared from their '09 line-up. In fact, I had also notice that the Bontrager Tandem Racelite wheels had disappeared from Bontrager's website last year.
    Last edited by TandemGeek; 09-04-08 at 06:19 PM.

  7. #7
    Ride it like you stole it WheresWaldo's Avatar
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    Dorel would not do their stockholders any good if they did not trim the fat. It is part of the acquisition process. Their first priority is not customers it is stockholders! So dropping models, or streamlining is just part of sound business practices for Dorel.

    Your fourth sentence I fully agree with, the first one I suspect did not require looking at what competitors offer, just historical sales data. Also de-specing occurs in other industries too, you design to a price point, and make adjustments to materials and pressure vendors on pricing to meet those price points. Its all part of the game to make stockholders as much money as possible.

    When it comes to bang for the buck tandems, Trek, I suspect, is not the name that just rolls off the tongue, I would venture a guess that the only reason Trek offered a tandem at all is that some tandem owners tend to buy the same brand single bikes. Look at yourself TG, for example, you have three Calfee's. Best to try to keep all the cycling dollars under one roof. Easier to deal with one LBS rather than several. I don't see the lose of tandems in Trek's line as either an issue for Trek or potential new tandem owners.
    "Never use your face as a brake pad" - Jake Watson

  8. #8
    Senior Member embankmentlb's Avatar
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    For whatever this is worth. This is the recent conversation i had with a now former C'dale deale r& shop owner. The shop would order bikes C'dale said they had in stock pay for them & just not get them. The manager confirmed that he was having the same problem in a different store. C,dale would flat out lie to get money sent. They were very unhappy with the company. These two guys only deal with road/off road bikes & not tandems. Tandems my be different. Something to keep in mind.

  9. #9
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    I would think that for the biggest improvement in the bottom line, Cannondale would simply discontinue tandems. Certainly they would not redesign them and continue USA? production. I expected them to be absent from the catalog and that was the actual reason I looked.

    I think they have improved the spec: I was in between the old L and XL up front. The new X would fit me fine, and offer the stoker an extra 1/2 inch of room.

    I would not be surprised to see a new supersize one in the future. They may not have had enough time to build and test one to their satisfaction.
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  10. #10
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    the first one I suspect did not require looking at what competitors offer,

    The competitor reference pertained to the increase length of the stoker compartment.


    I would venture a guess that the only reason Trek offered a tandem at all is that some tandem owners tend to buy the same brand single bikes.

    Brand-loyalty is definitely a strong reason, that and being able to offer a "full-range" of bicycle products. Of course, what constitutes a full range today is certainly quite different (and insanely more complex) than what it took back in 1993... which was coincidentally a year after I bought my last bike from a bike shop: a Trek 2300 in July '92 to be exact.

    Trek line up, circa 1993
    Trek line up, circa 2008

    Believe it or not, Cannondale has also gone into the GM-like abyss of model offerings...

    Cannondale line up, circa 1993
    Cannondale line up, circa 2008


    Look at yourself TG, for example, you have three Calfee's.

    I've got issues... No doubt about it.

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