lhbernhardt

Stokers are a terribly defensive lot. I've found that the best way to annoy them is to make the following observations:

1. Rule #1 in tandeming is this: "The stoker never makes mistakes." This DOES NOT mean "the stoker is always right." In fact, there is no logical connection between not making mistakes and always being right. It is quite possible to not make mistakes yet still be wrong. Yet, for some reason, every stoker I have ever met seems to think they are equivalent. I've even heard one stoker misquote Rule #1 as "The stoker is always right." Go figure...

2. Stoker compartments on modern tandems are way too long. If you look at most recreational tandem teams, there's a LOT of wasted space in the back. This would not be too bad except that it affects the tandem's handling. A shorter wheelbase handles "better" (snappier, quicker, easier to control, faster). The reason for the wasted space is that most recreational stokers sit very upright. The tandem's longer stoker compartment is great if the stoker is in a flat-back racing position, giving her enough room to tuck in behind the pilot, but if the stoker is sitting close to upright (as simple observation of most recreational teams will show), the stoker compartment could be made way shorter without impacting stoker comfort.

I think that the extra length in back is a concession to the fact that most tandems today are sold to a male/female couple, where the male is the driver and is substantially larger than the female. As a result, the back of the tandem must be made smaller. Historically, tandem designs were adapted from racing tandems, where the team is usually males of equal size. When the back is as large as the front, the stoker can overlap the driver. You can see this in track tandem sprinting, where the stoker will rest his head sideways on the driver's back in order to watch the other team. With a smaller stoker, and a lower back of tandem, this is not possible. A smaller rear compartment doesn't give the smaller stoker a place to put her head that is comfortable. But if the stoker is sitting almost upright, this is no longer an issue, and a shorter rear top tube can be used.

Anyway, I think it's always a good idea to question authority.

Luis

dfcas

Are you joking about stoker compartments being too long?

TandemGeek

Dear Luis:

WheresWaldo

My stoker will tell you that you are mistaken, she is never wrong!, besides whether or not she is correct really doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things as the end result is generally the same.

Well, some of this is incorrect, you have mixed two dimensions that although related are not a true cause and effect relationship. First you mention stoker compartment length and say it is too long. I suppose you came up with that one on your own, I am sure your stoker or anyone else that has to ride with their face planted into your back would disagree. If my stoker told you that you are wrong, she would be right of course based on her interpretation of rule number one.

Then you mention wheelbase, here we agree, wheelbases on many tandems are simply too long, longer than they need be on most tandems. One of the key determining factors in wheelbase is chainstay length. I have found, particularly on our old Cannondale that the chainstay length is way too long, pushing the rear wheel further out the back needlessly extending the wheelbase. On single bikes, a side effect of ultra short chainstays are that on steep climbs it is harder to keep the front wheel on the ground. No such issue on a tandem, in fact other than making room for full rear panniers there is simply no reason to design a tandem with ultra long chainstays.

While your history lesson on tandem design may be correct (I simply don't know), IMO your conclusions are incorrect. I am still not sure what you are saying in the last paragraph as it seems to have a few sentences that conflict with one another.

Until Luis clarifies what he meant to say, lets just assume he was only speaking about wheelbase and its effects on handling rather than long stoker compartments.

MB1

Humor on the internet ain't easy.

rfutscher

My stoker reports much more wind noise in her ears on a tandem with lots of room on the back. We also need a lot more room to turn around. I also find it much harder to balance when stopped at stop signs or traffic signals. My stoker can feel this and feels less stable. She prefers being up close and personal.

zonatandem

Stoker Kay, at 4' 10 3/4" height, would certainly agree that stoker compartments are 'too long '. . . for her!
Our shortest wheelbased tandem was 60 and 1/4 inches; achieved that with bent rear seattube, toeclip overlap for pilot, and chainstays that were so short that we had to deflate rear tire to remove the wheel.
Yes,she could rest her head, sideways, on pilot's back. Pilot also wore out the mesh on top of her gloves from his quads brushing them.
This was our quickest/fastest maneuvering tandem ever (plus we were 3 decades younger); at 34 lbs way back in 1977, it was one one of the lightest tandems in its time period. Yup, sold that custom Assenmacher after 'only' 64,0000 miles on the odo!
Nowadays we've stretched our wheelbase on our tandems to 63 1/2"; that is still about 6 inches shorter than the most of production machiines.
Majrotiy of female stokers do tend to ride more upright than on their solo bikes. Very few will consistently ride in the drops, unless they are racers.
If you want shorter/longer than average wheelbase, custom is the way to go.
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

Red Rider

dangit

There is some reason. Wide range gearing (on many/most tandems) works much better with longer stays. It reduces the effective chain angle brought on by the triple front, and also helps to mitigate some of the FD and ring rub that wide range cassettes create. Longer stays provide more usable gear combinations and less drivetrain noise/wear.

They can also make the stoker's tush a bit happier. If stoker's tush ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.

NewbieIATandem

Just my (and indirectly my stoker's) 2 cents.

Our first tandem had a stoker compartment where we could not get the stoker's bars/seat setup so she wouldn't bump her knees on the handlebars. Sold that tandem after about a month (oh, and we bought a Trek T900 during that month). Since we are recreational riders, the extra length is just fine, better than fine actually. Extremely happy with the leisurely steering, no bruised knees, don't really need the aerodynamic advantage.

So, I guess my opinion is, use a tandem with the stoker compartment whatever size works for you.

riva

Maybe its that recreational riders just don't wanna look like frogs humping when they ride.

NewbieIATandem

Not exactly how I would put it riva, but a rather unique observation.

mrfish

I think you're right here. However following marriage most couples (or ones that stay married for more than 5 minutes at least) quickly agree that the stoker is always right.

Nachoman

I just let my stocker "believe" she is always right.

vanilla ice

Function follows form.


.. for the recreational.

geranimo57

Hmm, I came here expecting to find some profound words on "What not to say around Stokers"
I am sure you folks can do better this.
Let me give this thread a push in the right direction.

"You should just know when I am going shift"

WheresWaldo

I live in a home with two women, and a female dog. I am overrun by estrogen, I like to think I am in charge but the reality is they only pretend to let me be in charge. Same happens on the bike, when I say I am in charge my stoker just stops pedaling, I quickly find out who is really in control.

cornucopia72

"you could not possibly be tired"

72andsunny

"Why aren't you pedaling?"

stevegor

My stoker is SO in control that she will not even ride the tandem with me.....DOH!!

72andsunny

"Start pedaling your weight" gets me in even more trouble.

NewbieIATandem

Let's stop for a Mucho Macho Mega Bean Burrito Meal.