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  1. #1
    PMK
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    Spoke bedding in

    Reading the other topic about wheel builders and wheel design and construction comments.

    I was just curious, and this applies to more the normal higher spoke count wheels, how many miles do you guys normally see to bed in spokes, nipples and basically the entire wheel so it remains tight with minimal if any trueing and tensioning?

    Our latest tandem had, and I believe the previous owner, only about 30 easy miles of road use. We are putting a lot of miles on it in minimal calender time...it's getting ridden quite a bit.

    I've already tensioned and trued these wheels once, and will do them again tonight. We have discs, 3 cross, 40 spoke, velocity rimmed DT hubbed oem Co-Motion wheels.

    I plan to stay on top of them, what do you figuire, a few retensions over a couple hundred miles, or should I relace to a different pattern on account of the discs?

    Thanks
    PK
    2006 Co-Motion Roadster, flat bars, discs and carbon fibre fork, size 22 / 19
    2006 Ventana ECDM full suspension mountain tandem
    Some single bikes and a couple of KTM's
    And most important, someone special that enjoys them with me (except the KTM's)

  2. #2
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    Waening: Never relace a hub to a different lacing pattern. The additional "creases" on the hub flange can cause stress risers, resulting in a broken flange.

    On a wheel that I build, I expect to to retrue/ tension a wheel about a month after the initial build. The spokes stretch, and this requires the tension to be restored. The spokes/hipples/crossings etc are all seated when I first build the wheel. The tension drops whether the wheel is ridden or not.

    Note also that the tension on the spokes drops when you inflate the tire to 100+ PSI.

    dan
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  3. #3
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    I was just curious, and this applies to more the normal higher spoke count wheels, how many miles do you guys normally see to bed in spokes, nipples and basically the entire wheel so it remains tight with minimal if any trueing and tensioning?
    It varies from wheel to wheel dependent upon several different factors...

    How well-built they were in the first place... (Biggest factor in variability)
    How many 'things' the wheels have hit.... (Second biggest factor)
    The size and weight of the team... (the bigger the team, the bigger the influence)
    The spokes used and how they are laced... (fewer spokes = more variability)
    And so on...

    For wheels that I've bought and that are user-servicable using something other than a $350 DT tensionmeter, I tend to check the tension, retrue and then distress the wheel before doing a final re-truing before I even use them. Some of the wheels I've come into need nothing, whereas others have been a disaster. On the wheels I build and the ones I need to tweak, I tend to use the high-end of the recommended tension range and also use DT's threadlocker and those, along with our weight, etc... usually make for wheels that don't need much if any tweaking until I invariably nail something in the road.

    Knock on wood, the Rolf's (not user serviceable w/o DT tensionmeter and possible warranty implications) and Topolino wheels (trued like conventional wheels with Park tensionmeter) that I presently have probably have about 1,000 mi or so each and they're all looking pretty good. The Topolino wheelset's rear wheel has had two hard hits and has a small rim nick but, again, it's still true and round. The Rolf's escaped last season unharmed but did scare the bajeezus out of me when the front wheel kicked a broken stick into the huge opening in the spokes that got slammed into the fork and then launched out ahead of the tandem. other than taking some paint off the spokes, no visible damage. However, I've since decided no Rolfs after storms or during the fall months when the roads around Atlanta tend to be littered with branches and what not.

  4. #4
    PMK
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    Thanks guys.

    As I mentioned I'll keep a close eye on them, the rear especially.

    I don't know, but doubt they used spoke prep when building the wheels, they do have DT straight gage spokes.

    Probably a few more miles to fully get them set.

    I took five minutes before last nights ride to tighten two that had lost tension, and then brought the entire wheel tension up a bit more, doing it with an inflated tire installed. As more of an MTB person that's built many of my own off road wheels, I likely discounted how much tension would be lost with a high pressure tire, this may have been a contributing factor.

    They do run smooth and true, plus roll decently. No doubt they will see normal abuse, but overall I try to be very aware of what rolls under the tires.

    Again thanks guys.

    PK
    2006 Co-Motion Roadster, flat bars, discs and carbon fibre fork, size 22 / 19
    2006 Ventana ECDM full suspension mountain tandem
    Some single bikes and a couple of KTM's
    And most important, someone special that enjoys them with me (except the KTM's)

  5. #5
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    Hi PMK,
    Not really related to your post but below your signature I remarked that your Roadster is equipped with a carbon fork and disk brake. Could you tell me what model of fork it is and also your appreciation of it. I am looking to get one for our tandem that has also disk brake.

    Thanks,
    Cheetah

  6. #6
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    I use grease on the nipple/rim interface and on the spoke threads. I've had spoke prep seize up when it got old, and act more like loctite.

    I also use butted spokes.Always.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheetah View Post
    Hi PMK,
    Not really related to your post but below your signature I remarked that your Roadster is equipped with a carbon fork and disk brake. Could you tell me what model of fork it is and also your appreciation of it. I am looking to get one for our tandem that has also disk brake.

    Thanks,
    Cheetah
    Maybe you should start a new thread with this topic.

  8. #8
    PMK
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    FWIW, I don't oppose he start a new topic, but it's here if needed.

    This fork came on our latest tandem.

    http://woundupcomposites.com/tandem_duo.html.

    I never rode the bike with another fork, but overall it is very smooth for straight blades, our previous tandem had a steel Co-Mo fork and it too was smooth, but then again this newer bike is aluminum framed vs steel of the previous.

    I do consider myself a decent test rider, but without a comparison baseline, I'm left to say it's as good as the steel fork and has no bad traits. Sorry I can't offer more.

    This topic and posts by Tandemgeek seem pretty applicable.
    Carbon Fork Question

    PK
    2006 Co-Motion Roadster, flat bars, discs and carbon fibre fork, size 22 / 19
    2006 Ventana ECDM full suspension mountain tandem
    Some single bikes and a couple of KTM's
    And most important, someone special that enjoys them with me (except the KTM's)

  9. #9
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    Thanks PMK.

    How does it feel when hit the front brake. Do you feel any flex? Would it be possible for you to post a pic that shows the installation of the disc caliper. On the woundup site the picture don't show much.

    Again thanks,
    Cheetah

  10. #10
    PMK
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    There is some flex but not what I would consider bad or dangerous. The axle flexing rearward is similar to our old steel fork. The slight bowing from brake torque is there but not appear any more excessive than other disc brake forks, excepting maybe a few downhill forks which are motorcycle strong.

    Pictures as time permits.

    PK
    2006 Co-Motion Roadster, flat bars, discs and carbon fibre fork, size 22 / 19
    2006 Ventana ECDM full suspension mountain tandem
    Some single bikes and a couple of KTM's
    And most important, someone special that enjoys them with me (except the KTM's)

  11. #11
    PMK
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    Some photos as asked. BTW, if someone wants to start another topic, or add these to a previous topic, that's fine.

    PK
    Attached Images Attached Images
    2006 Co-Motion Roadster, flat bars, discs and carbon fibre fork, size 22 / 19
    2006 Ventana ECDM full suspension mountain tandem
    Some single bikes and a couple of KTM's
    And most important, someone special that enjoys them with me (except the KTM's)

  12. #12
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    Thank you for the pictures PMK. It is well appreciated.

    Have a nice,
    Cheetah

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    Some photos as asked. BTW, if someone wants to start another topic, or add these to a previous topic, that's fine.

    PK
    You would think they could epoxy on a cable guide rather than having to use a zip tie.

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