Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 33
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    569
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Cassette Carriers

    TandemGeek mentioned that an Ultegra cassette cog embedded itself in the aluminum carrier of his Topolino wheels. We had the same problem with a titanium carrier. One of the cogs was very difficult to remove and left a deep indentation on the carrier. Has anyone else experienced this and is it a problem?

  2. #2
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Jacksonville
    My Bikes
    Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er
    Posts
    27,413
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hasn't happened on our Rolf Tandem wheels. But it's happened to several Zipp aluminum freehubs on my single bikes.

    It's usually not a big issue. As you've found it can make cassette removal a little more difficult (pushing at the base of the cog with a screwdriver helps)

    Worse case, it pulls all the way through the spline, and you have to get a new freehub body. But unless it gets to that point or is causing the cogs to move around, just ride it untill it wears out.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  3. #3
    shut up and ride
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    noho
    My Bikes
    supersix hi-mod,burley duet tandem,woodrup track,cannondale cross,specialized road
    Posts
    1,942
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i have the same problem on my single bike. a chain whip works really well to twist the cogs back so that they can be removed. a lot easier and safer than a screwdriver

  4. #4
    Senior Member JTGraphics's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    2,618
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    My American Classic wheels have an aluminum hub that the cogs put a groove into and can chew up the hub body American Classic makes these little shims that slide in and protect the hub body and stops the cogs from imbedding them self's into the hub.
    Pdf file to show them you can order from them also I use them on my hub and stops the hub damage.
    This is for Utegra 10 speed they make a set for DuraAce and 105 those can be found on the help page http://www.amclassic.com/help.php
    Utegra 10 speed
    http://www.amclassic.com/documents/h...eedUltegra.pdf
    Last edited by JTGraphics; 05-11-09 at 11:55 AM.
    It may not be fancy but it gets me were I need to go.
    http://www.jtgraphics.net/cyclist_bicycles.htm

  5. #5
    Gear Combo Guru Chris_W's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Switzerland
    My Bikes
    Spec' Tarmac (road), Spec' Secteur Disc (commuter & tourer), Salsa Mamasita (MTB), CoMo Speedster (tandem), Surly Big Dummy (cargo), Airnimal (folder), a train pass, and NO car :)
    Posts
    2,090
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I started to have this problem on one of my single bikes. I recently sold the wheelset to a friend, he has nine-speed stuff whereas mine is 10-speed, so his cogs rest in a different place than mine, meaning that the cassette carrier is effectively mostly new again for him.

  6. #6
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    7,161
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by JTGraphics View Post
    American Classic makes these little shims that slide in and protect the hub body and stops the cogs from imbedding them self's into the hub.
    That's GREAT information. I did not know such a thing had been developed and will have to investigate further.

  7. #7
    Ride it like you stole it WheresWaldo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Union County, NC
    My Bikes
    2013 Cannondale EVO Ultegra Di2, Pedal Force Aeroblade, Rue Tandem
    Posts
    4,252
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek View Post
    That's GREAT information. I did not know such a thing had been developed and will have to investigate further.
    They are really hard to find, if you happen to find a source let us all know.

    Listed in the FAQ but not on the site, they are called Clip Pins.
    http://www.amclassic.com/faq.php

    http://www.amclassic.com/documents/h...eedUltegra.pdf
    http://www.amclassic.com/documents/h...eedDuraAce.pdf
    http://www.amclassic.com/documents/h...0_Speed105.pdf
    Last edited by WheresWaldo; 05-12-09 at 08:57 AM.
    "Never use your face as a brake pad" - Jake Watson

  8. #8
    Senior Member JTGraphics's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    2,618
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Give them a call @ 800-813-5545 they sell them for $14.99 I got a few sets last year at that price could be a little more now.
    But worth it to save your hub.
    They list them as 10 Speed Clip/Pin Kit - for Shimano 10 speed Cassettes it comes with pins for all the Cassettes 105\Utegra and DuraAce simple little things but work great!.
    The new hubs this year are still aluminum but they have machined in a hardened piece into the hub so these are no longer needed.
    Last edited by JTGraphics; 05-12-09 at 09:28 AM.
    It may not be fancy but it gets me were I need to go.
    http://www.jtgraphics.net/cyclist_bicycles.htm

  9. #9
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    7,161
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by WheresWaldo View Post
    They are really hard to find, if you happen to find a source let us all know.
    As JT noted, just call American Classic direct @ 800-813-5545 and speak with Clay or Jeremy. They are still $14.95. Very helpful and accommodating folks to say the least.

  10. #10
    Senior Member JTGraphics's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    2,618
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek View Post
    As JT noted, just call American Classic direct @ 800-813-5545 and speak with Clay or Jeremy. They are still $14.95. Very helpful and accommodating folks to say the least.
    Yes they are very nice and helpful which is hard to get these days! you actually get to talk to the people who own the place not to mention a live person answers the phone on the other end.
    It may not be fancy but it gets me were I need to go.
    http://www.jtgraphics.net/cyclist_bicycles.htm

  11. #11
    shut up and ride
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    noho
    My Bikes
    supersix hi-mod,burley duet tandem,woodrup track,cannondale cross,specialized road
    Posts
    1,942
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    the clip pins are a cool idea, but are they only for the 11 and 12? i need them for all the other single cogs.

    i was thinking more along the lines of a flat steel bar that would sit at the edge of the spline(s) so that the cogs would push steel on steel rather than steel into aluminum.

  12. #12
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    7,161
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by zzzwillzzz View Post
    the clip pins are a cool idea, but are they only for the 11 and 12? i need them for all the other single cogs.
    11t and 12t refers to the different size cassettes, i.e., an 12x27t is a bit different than an 11x23t.

    The clip/pins sit under the four loose cogs that cause all of the damage.

  13. #13
    Senior Member JTGraphics's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    2,618
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by zzzwillzzz View Post
    the clip pins are a cool idea, but are they only for the 11 and 12? i need them for all the other single cogs.

    i was thinking more along the lines of a flat steel bar that would sit at the edge of the spline(s) so that the cogs would push steel on steel rather than steel into aluminum.
    No they take care of all the single cogs the last three are ok so on a 10 speed it covers the first 4 cogs, after the cluster in on then you start with the single cogs and spacers with the clip pins installed.
    It may not be fancy but it gets me were I need to go.
    http://www.jtgraphics.net/cyclist_bicycles.htm

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    569
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by JTGraphics View Post
    No they take care of all the single cogs the last three are ok so on a 10 speed it covers the first 4 cogs, after the cluster in on then you start with the single cogs and spacers with the clip pins installed.
    I take it that with non-American Classic hubs you do not need the American Classic spacer that goes behind that Shimano spacer. Is this correct?

  15. #15
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Everett, WA
    My Bikes
    CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
    Posts
    8,514
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    This came up on another thread, and I believe it was TG who suggested riding in a bigger front chainring than you would on your single to keep the chain down onto the cogs which are on a carrier. That's not much help if your team has the strength to hammer in big gears and you do a lot of it, but it's helped keep my hub nice. Less chain tension, so perhaps slightly increased life there, too.

  16. #16
    shut up and ride
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    noho
    My Bikes
    supersix hi-mod,burley duet tandem,woodrup track,cannondale cross,specialized road
    Posts
    1,942
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    better pics of the product would help.

    i wonder if using the little bolts that are used to hold cheaper cassettes together would work on spreading the load across more of the individual cogs. i'm too lazy to go to the garage and see if the cogs eve have the holes for the bolts/pins.

  17. #17
    Senior Member JTGraphics's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    2,618
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by rmac View Post
    I take it that with non-American Classic hubs you do not need the American Classic spacer that goes behind that Shimano spacer. Is this correct?
    Correct just use in the original Shimano installation.
    It may not be fancy but it gets me were I need to go.
    http://www.jtgraphics.net/cyclist_bicycles.htm

  18. #18
    Senior Member JTGraphics's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    2,618
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by zzzwillzzz View Post
    better pics of the product would help.

    i wonder if using the little bolts that are used to hold cheaper cassettes together would work on spreading the load across more of the individual cogs. i'm too lazy to go to the garage and see if the cogs eve have the holes for the bolts/pins.
    Since I actually do use these I will take some photos after this weekend’s ride if people are interested in what they look like but they are just as the diagram shows they are small.
    I don't want to take it apart before my ride this weekend.
    I do think I have the spares they sent which I can take a photo of without me disassembling my hub.
    It may not be fancy but it gets me were I need to go.
    http://www.jtgraphics.net/cyclist_bicycles.htm

  19. #19
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    7,161
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by JTGraphics View Post
    I don't want to take it apart before my ride this weekend.
    I'll save you the trouble... I just received two sets: slick as baby shiat.

    Quote Originally Posted by zzzwillzzz View Post
    better pics of the product would help.
    In the attached photos below you'll see what you receive when you buy the clip set: 3 clips for 11 speed DA cassettes, 3 clips for 12 speed Ultegra cassettes and 3 pins for 105 cassettes + a spacer in the event you need it along with comprehensive instructions.

    Now, if you're like me you probably didn't think much about the reduced number of splines on the new 10 speed cassettes until they mangled your cassette carrier: thanks Shimano. Anyway, the clips slide into the very large voids where the extra spline teeth 'should' be. I removed a cog and spacer so that you can see the clip sitting in the void under one of the other spacers, semi-exposed. If you've ever had sex you can do this... just slide the clip in the little opening. Repeat two more times and you're done. They go about their business out of sight and out of mind. About as slick as can be.
    .
    Attached Images Attached Images

  20. #20
    Senior Member JTGraphics's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    2,618
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek View Post
    I'll save you the trouble... I just received two sets: slick as baby shiat.



    In the attached photos below you'll see what you receive when you buy the clip set: 3 clips for 11 speed DA cassettes, 3 clips for 12 speed Ultegra cassettes and 3 pins for 105 cassettes + a spacer in the event you need it along with comprehensive instructions.

    Now, if you're like me you probably didn't think much about the reduced number of splines on the new 10 speed cassettes until they mangled your cassette carrier: thanks Shimano. Anyway, the clips slide into the very large voids where the extra spline teeth 'should' be. I removed a cog and spacer so that you can see the clip sitting in the void under one of the other spacers, semi-exposed. If you've ever had sex you can do this... just slide the clip in the little opening. Repeat two more times and you're done. They go about their business out of sight and out of mind. About as slick as can be.
    .
    Thanks TandemGeek was about to take it apart!
    I have had these on my hub for quite some time and they have worked great. Amazing that something so simple can work so good.
    Hats off to them for these little gems!.
    It may not be fancy but it gets me were I need to go.
    http://www.jtgraphics.net/cyclist_bicycles.htm

  21. #21
    shut up and ride
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    noho
    My Bikes
    supersix hi-mod,burley duet tandem,woodrup track,cannondale cross,specialized road
    Posts
    1,942
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    this is exactly what i was thinking...
    a piece of steel on the freehub body for the cogs to hit against instead gouging into the softer material

    from velonews

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    643
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by JTGraphics View Post
    My American Classic wheels have an aluminum hub that the cogs put a groove into and can chew up the hub body American Classic makes these little shims that slide in and protect the hub body and stops the cogs from imbedding them self's into the hub.
    Pdf file to show them you can order from them also I use them on my hub and stops the hub damage.
    This is for Utegra 10 speed they make a set for DuraAce and 105 those can be found on the help page http://www.amclassic.com/help.php
    Utegra 10 speed
    http://www.amclassic.com/documents/h...eedUltegra.pdf
    Thanks for the heads up on these. I got mine yesterday and installed on my just returned PowerTap SL that has an Al cassette body.

    I just got it back from Saris and they replaced the very chewed up body with a new one during my ANT+ upgrade, so it should keep it in good shape.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    St Peters, Missouri
    My Bikes
    Rans Enduro Sport, Hase Kettweisel Tandem, Merin Bear Valley beater bike
    Posts
    23,975
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The torque spec for cassette lockrings is 30 lb/ft. That's huge! Nobody tightens lockrings that much unless they're using a torque wrench. I used to wonder why that spec was so stout. Then another poster told me that keeping the lockring tight locks all of the loose cogs together and prevents an individual cog from digging into the freehub body.

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    643
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek View Post
    Now, if you're like me you probably didn't think much about the reduced number of splines on the new 10 speed cassettes until they mangled your cassette carrier: thanks Shimano.
    .
    To be fair, this isn't a problem caused by Shimano. All Shimano Al cassettes are high spline and don't mangle.

    The fault is with other mfgs that thought low spline Al freehub bodies were a good idea. Once again, chasing a few grams at the loss of durability. AC's steel insert is really how they Al bodies should have been made from the start.

    But this was an easy and inexpensive fix, so I'm happy with it.

  25. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    569
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The IRD 10sp 12-30 cassettes have a full set of splines. I'll see whether these dig into the hub.

    The shifting with this cassette seems just as nice as a Shimano 12-27 cassette. Could the problem people have been having with IRD cassettes be the large jump from the 28 cog to the 34 cog?

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •