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Tandem Cycling A bicycle built for two. Want to find out more about this wonderful world of tandems? Check out this forum to talk with other tandem enthusiasts. Captains and stokers welcome!

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Old 05-11-09, 09:21 AM   #1
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Cassette Carriers

TandemGeek mentioned that an Ultegra cassette cog embedded itself in the aluminum carrier of his Topolino wheels. We had the same problem with a titanium carrier. One of the cogs was very difficult to remove and left a deep indentation on the carrier. Has anyone else experienced this and is it a problem?
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Old 05-11-09, 09:31 AM   #2
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Hasn't happened on our Rolf Tandem wheels. But it's happened to several Zipp aluminum freehubs on my single bikes.

It's usually not a big issue. As you've found it can make cassette removal a little more difficult (pushing at the base of the cog with a screwdriver helps)

Worse case, it pulls all the way through the spline, and you have to get a new freehub body. But unless it gets to that point or is causing the cogs to move around, just ride it untill it wears out.
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Old 05-11-09, 10:18 AM   #3
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i have the same problem on my single bike. a chain whip works really well to twist the cogs back so that they can be removed. a lot easier and safer than a screwdriver
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Old 05-11-09, 10:49 AM   #4
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My American Classic wheels have an aluminum hub that the cogs put a groove into and can chew up the hub body American Classic makes these little shims that slide in and protect the hub body and stops the cogs from imbedding them self's into the hub.
Pdf file to show them you can order from them also I use them on my hub and stops the hub damage.
This is for Utegra 10 speed they make a set for DuraAce and 105 those can be found on the help page http://www.amclassic.com/help.php
Utegra 10 speed
http://www.amclassic.com/documents/h...eedUltegra.pdf
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Old 05-12-09, 12:07 AM   #5
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I started to have this problem on one of my single bikes. I recently sold the wheelset to a friend, he has nine-speed stuff whereas mine is 10-speed, so his cogs rest in a different place than mine, meaning that the cassette carrier is effectively mostly new again for him.
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Old 05-12-09, 06:15 AM   #6
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American Classic makes these little shims that slide in and protect the hub body and stops the cogs from imbedding them self's into the hub.
That's GREAT information. I did not know such a thing had been developed and will have to investigate further.
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Old 05-12-09, 07:50 AM   #7
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That's GREAT information. I did not know such a thing had been developed and will have to investigate further.
They are really hard to find, if you happen to find a source let us all know.

Listed in the FAQ but not on the site, they are called Clip Pins.
http://www.amclassic.com/faq.php

http://www.amclassic.com/documents/h...eedUltegra.pdf
http://www.amclassic.com/documents/h...eedDuraAce.pdf
http://www.amclassic.com/documents/h...0_Speed105.pdf
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Old 05-12-09, 08:24 AM   #8
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Give them a call @ 800-813-5545 they sell them for $14.99 I got a few sets last year at that price could be a little more now.
But worth it to save your hub.
They list them as 10 Speed Clip/Pin Kit - for Shimano 10 speed Cassettes it comes with pins for all the Cassettes 105\Utegra and DuraAce simple little things but work great!.
The new hubs this year are still aluminum but they have machined in a hardened piece into the hub so these are no longer needed.
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Old 05-12-09, 11:23 AM   #9
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They are really hard to find, if you happen to find a source let us all know.
As JT noted, just call American Classic direct @ 800-813-5545 and speak with Clay or Jeremy. They are still $14.95. Very helpful and accommodating folks to say the least.
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Old 05-12-09, 12:06 PM   #10
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As JT noted, just call American Classic direct @ 800-813-5545 and speak with Clay or Jeremy. They are still $14.95. Very helpful and accommodating folks to say the least.
Yes they are very nice and helpful which is hard to get these days! you actually get to talk to the people who own the place not to mention a live person answers the phone on the other end.
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Old 05-12-09, 12:40 PM   #11
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the clip pins are a cool idea, but are they only for the 11 and 12? i need them for all the other single cogs.

i was thinking more along the lines of a flat steel bar that would sit at the edge of the spline(s) so that the cogs would push steel on steel rather than steel into aluminum.
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Old 05-12-09, 12:48 PM   #12
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the clip pins are a cool idea, but are they only for the 11 and 12? i need them for all the other single cogs.
11t and 12t refers to the different size cassettes, i.e., an 12x27t is a bit different than an 11x23t.

The clip/pins sit under the four loose cogs that cause all of the damage.
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Old 05-12-09, 12:52 PM   #13
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the clip pins are a cool idea, but are they only for the 11 and 12? i need them for all the other single cogs.

i was thinking more along the lines of a flat steel bar that would sit at the edge of the spline(s) so that the cogs would push steel on steel rather than steel into aluminum.
No they take care of all the single cogs the last three are ok so on a 10 speed it covers the first 4 cogs, after the cluster in on then you start with the single cogs and spacers with the clip pins installed.
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Old 05-15-09, 07:56 PM   #14
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No they take care of all the single cogs the last three are ok so on a 10 speed it covers the first 4 cogs, after the cluster in on then you start with the single cogs and spacers with the clip pins installed.
I take it that with non-American Classic hubs you do not need the American Classic spacer that goes behind that Shimano spacer. Is this correct?
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Old 05-16-09, 09:56 AM   #15
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This came up on another thread, and I believe it was TG who suggested riding in a bigger front chainring than you would on your single to keep the chain down onto the cogs which are on a carrier. That's not much help if your team has the strength to hammer in big gears and you do a lot of it, but it's helped keep my hub nice. Less chain tension, so perhaps slightly increased life there, too.
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Old 05-16-09, 05:15 PM   #16
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better pics of the product would help.

i wonder if using the little bolts that are used to hold cheaper cassettes together would work on spreading the load across more of the individual cogs. i'm too lazy to go to the garage and see if the cogs eve have the holes for the bolts/pins.
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Old 05-16-09, 07:08 PM   #17
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I take it that with non-American Classic hubs you do not need the American Classic spacer that goes behind that Shimano spacer. Is this correct?
Correct just use in the original Shimano installation.
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Old 05-16-09, 07:12 PM   #18
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better pics of the product would help.

i wonder if using the little bolts that are used to hold cheaper cassettes together would work on spreading the load across more of the individual cogs. i'm too lazy to go to the garage and see if the cogs eve have the holes for the bolts/pins.
Since I actually do use these I will take some photos after this weekend’s ride if people are interested in what they look like but they are just as the diagram shows they are small.
I don't want to take it apart before my ride this weekend.
I do think I have the spares they sent which I can take a photo of without me disassembling my hub.
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Old 05-17-09, 08:49 AM   #19
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I don't want to take it apart before my ride this weekend.
I'll save you the trouble... I just received two sets: slick as baby shiat.

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better pics of the product would help.
In the attached photos below you'll see what you receive when you buy the clip set: 3 clips for 11 speed DA cassettes, 3 clips for 12 speed Ultegra cassettes and 3 pins for 105 cassettes + a spacer in the event you need it along with comprehensive instructions.

Now, if you're like me you probably didn't think much about the reduced number of splines on the new 10 speed cassettes until they mangled your cassette carrier: thanks Shimano. Anyway, the clips slide into the very large voids where the extra spline teeth 'should' be. I removed a cog and spacer so that you can see the clip sitting in the void under one of the other spacers, semi-exposed. If you've ever had sex you can do this... just slide the clip in the little opening. Repeat two more times and you're done. They go about their business out of sight and out of mind. About as slick as can be.
.
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Old 05-18-09, 12:18 PM   #20
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I'll save you the trouble... I just received two sets: slick as baby shiat.



In the attached photos below you'll see what you receive when you buy the clip set: 3 clips for 11 speed DA cassettes, 3 clips for 12 speed Ultegra cassettes and 3 pins for 105 cassettes + a spacer in the event you need it along with comprehensive instructions.

Now, if you're like me you probably didn't think much about the reduced number of splines on the new 10 speed cassettes until they mangled your cassette carrier: thanks Shimano. Anyway, the clips slide into the very large voids where the extra spline teeth 'should' be. I removed a cog and spacer so that you can see the clip sitting in the void under one of the other spacers, semi-exposed. If you've ever had sex you can do this... just slide the clip in the little opening. Repeat two more times and you're done. They go about their business out of sight and out of mind. About as slick as can be.
.
Thanks TandemGeek was about to take it apart!
I have had these on my hub for quite some time and they have worked great. Amazing that something so simple can work so good.
Hats off to them for these little gems!.
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Old 05-29-09, 11:27 PM   #21
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this is exactly what i was thinking...
a piece of steel on the freehub body for the cogs to hit against instead gouging into the softer material

from velonews
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Old 06-12-09, 06:44 AM   #22
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My American Classic wheels have an aluminum hub that the cogs put a groove into and can chew up the hub body American Classic makes these little shims that slide in and protect the hub body and stops the cogs from imbedding them self's into the hub.
Pdf file to show them you can order from them also I use them on my hub and stops the hub damage.
This is for Utegra 10 speed they make a set for DuraAce and 105 those can be found on the help page http://www.amclassic.com/help.php
Utegra 10 speed
http://www.amclassic.com/documents/h...eedUltegra.pdf
Thanks for the heads up on these. I got mine yesterday and installed on my just returned PowerTap SL that has an Al cassette body.

I just got it back from Saris and they replaced the very chewed up body with a new one during my ANT+ upgrade, so it should keep it in good shape.
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Old 06-12-09, 07:39 AM   #23
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The torque spec for cassette lockrings is 30 lb/ft. That's huge! Nobody tightens lockrings that much unless they're using a torque wrench. I used to wonder why that spec was so stout. Then another poster told me that keeping the lockring tight locks all of the loose cogs together and prevents an individual cog from digging into the freehub body.
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Old 06-12-09, 11:25 AM   #24
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Now, if you're like me you probably didn't think much about the reduced number of splines on the new 10 speed cassettes until they mangled your cassette carrier: thanks Shimano.
.
To be fair, this isn't a problem caused by Shimano. All Shimano Al cassettes are high spline and don't mangle.

The fault is with other mfgs that thought low spline Al freehub bodies were a good idea. Once again, chasing a few grams at the loss of durability. AC's steel insert is really how they Al bodies should have been made from the start.

But this was an easy and inexpensive fix, so I'm happy with it.
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Old 06-16-09, 01:57 PM   #25
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The IRD 10sp 12-30 cassettes have a full set of splines. I'll see whether these dig into the hub.

The shifting with this cassette seems just as nice as a Shimano 12-27 cassette. Could the problem people have been having with IRD cassettes be the large jump from the 28 cog to the 34 cog?
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