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  1. #1
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    Co-motion Primera or Speedster?

    Hello all,

    I simply don't know enough about tandem bikes to choose between these two bikes, so am looking for some expert advice.

    My wife and I are moderately active solo cyclists (I do 60 to 80 miles a week during the summer, my wife somewhat less, and our typical speeds are different). We decided to try out a tandem to see if would let us ride together, and had a great time. We rented a Co-motion periscope a couple of times, and found it comfortable and easy to control. We also tried a Trek (both our solo bikes are Trek), but both of us clearly preferred the Co-motion.

    We enjoyed it enough that we've decided to get a Co-motion for our anniversary. We don't really need the Periscope's adjustability, and the budget says we're looking at the Primera. This is a long-term investment, however, so we could stretch a little and get a Speedster.

    I understand that the Speedster will be a couple of pounds lighter (I don't know if this makes a difference on a bike that's already this heavy---we're a sub-300 team). I see that the Speedster has component upgrades (headset, crank/bb, hubs/skewers, tires, seats, and bars are listed on the website). We liked the disc brake on the Periscope, so are thinking about getting them on either bike (along with a suspension seatpost).

    Does the Speedster provide enough real value to merit an additional $1100? Do you expect there would be differences we would notice (either in riding or in long-term reliability/cost)? Or if I'm so lost I have to ask on the Internet, does that mean we should just go get a Primera?

    Thanks for reading!

  2. #2
    Tandem Vincitur Ritterview's Avatar
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    To facilitate discussion, I've posted info from the Co-Motion site. These have the same frame, right? Both also have the same cro-moly fork.

    If you are cycling 60-80 miles per week now, that should translate into a fair amount of tandeming together, stoker-willing. The upgrades to the Speedster appear reasonable, and it will be a lot cheaper to get them now at OEM, than to pay for the suboptimal part first, and then toss it to pay retail and installation for the upgrade. With that in mind, how much more for a carbon fork? You'd save weight and gain ride comfort.




    Primera pricing
    # Complete bike $3585

    Primera component Specifications
    # Primera Component Package
    # Frame Co-Motion designed heat-treated zonally-butted tandem tubing
    # Fork Co-Motion taper-gauge Cro-Moly, with Co-Motion CNC tandem steerer
    # Headset FSA Orbit X
    # Crankset TruVativ Elita
    # Bottom Brackets TruVativ Elita GigaXPipe
    # Chainrings 52-39-30
    # Brakes Avid Single Digit 5
    # Brake Levers Shimano Ultegra STI
    # Rear Derailleur Shimano Ultegra 10spd triple
    # Front Derailleur Shimano Ultegra Triple
    # Cassette SRAM 1070 10 spd 11-28T
    # Shifters Shimano Ultegra STI
    # Chain KMC 10spd + timing chain
    # Hubs Co-Motion A10 Tandem Disc 36h or,40h
    # Rims Velocity Dyad
    # Spokes DT 14 gauge
    # Tires Continental Ultra Sport 700X28
    # QR skewers Co-Motion A10
    # Seat Posts Kalloy Seraph 29.8 mm
    # Saddles Selle Italia X2 Men's & Women's
    # Pedals None
    # Handlebars FSA Omega 31.8 Capt., and Co-Motion Stoker
    # Captain Stem FSA OS-150
    # Stoker Stem Co-Motion Telescoping adjustable




    Speedster pricing
    # Complete bike $4825

    Speedster component Specifications
    # Speedster Component Package
    # Frame Co-Motion designed air-hardened steel zonally-butted tandem tubing
    # Fork Co-Motion taper-gauge Cro-Moly, with Co-Motion CNC tandem steerer
    # Headset Chris King NoThreadset
    # Crankset FSA Gossamer
    # Bottom Brackets FSA MegaExo
    # Chainrings 53-39-30
    # Brakes Avid Single Digit 7
    # Brake Levers Shimano Ultegra STI
    # Rear Derailleur Shimano Ultegra 10spd triple
    # Front Derailleur Shimano Ultegra Triple
    # Cassette SRAM 1070 10 spd 11-28T
    # Shifters Shimano Ultegra STI
    # Chain KMC 10spd + timing chain
    # Hubs DT Swiss 540 Co-Motion Tandem Disc 36h or,40h
    # Rims Velocity Dyad
    # Spokes DT 14 gauge
    # Tires Continental Ultra Gatorskin 700 x 28
    # QR skewers Salsa Tandem
    # Seat Posts Kalloy Seraph 29.8 mm
    # Saddles Selle Italia C2 Flow Men's & Lady Flow
    # Pedals None
    # Handlebars FSA Gossamer 31.8 Capt., and Co-Motion Stoker
    # Captain Stem FSA OS-150
    # Stoker Stem Co-Motion Telescoping adjustable

  3. #3
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    The cost difference between Co-Motion models is pretty much tied to the differences in the cost of the materials and labor so that extra $1,100 buys you what you've already identified:

    1. A somewhat lighter weight Reynolds 631 air hardened frame that exhibits the same basic handling qualities as the Reynolds 725 heat-treated frame used on the Primera and the S&S equipped Speedster, Mocha & Supremo Co-Pilot travel tandems. Back in 2003 the frame-only cost difference between the Reynolds 631 and 725 framesets was about $350 or a 20% bump associated with the more expensive tubing. I'd venture a guess that adjusted for inflation it's probably closer to a $425 - $450 bump nowadays, but that's just a guess.

    2. A brand-name component package vs. the value-based component package used to keep the price down on the Primera.

    3. Your choice of 30 colors vs. standard silver or red Primera color options included in the base price vs. paying a $100 bump to level the playing field with the Speedster on paint finishes.

    Therefore, the real question is... noting that you're already considering upgrades like the disc and suspension seatpost ...will you be just as 'happy' with the best-value Primera model as you would with the slightly more upscale Speedster? Frankly, there really won't be much of a performance difference aside from the ~1.0% total bike's weight reduction and an equally undetectable difference in the quality of the bearings used on the Co-Motion-branded hubs vs. the DT Hugi hubs. Therefore, most of the quantifiable differences will be oh so slight weight differences and the finish of certain components. Tires really don't factor in to the equation since they're consumables that will be replaced in a few months anyway.

    So, what's your gut telling you here???

    Will you and yours appreciate the added-value of those premium-grade components and that lighter frameset? Or, would you rather put that $1,100 towards your optional disc, a suspension seat post and a paint upgrade? It all adds up rather fast and, well, beware the cost of accessories for the new tandem and wardrobe enhancements that often times seem to follow the acquisition of a new tandem.

    Enjoy the process because, on the bright side, I don't think you can make a bad choice so long as you get the frame size and color right, as everything else is fairly easy to change.
    Last edited by TandemGeek; 06-23-09 at 11:43 PM.

  4. #4
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
    These have the same frame, right?
    No...

    Primera uses heat-treated Reynolds 725 frameset whereas the Speedster (Mocha & Supremo) use the air hardened and somewhat lighter Reynolds 631 frameset.

    The Reynolds 725 frameset used to be Co-Motion's top shelf steel frameset. They first introduced the air hardened 631 frame on the Supremo around 2002 and then began using it on the non-coupled Speedster, Cappuccino and Mocha frames in 2004. However, the heat treated 725 frameset is what you'll find on all of Co-Motion's S&S equipped Co-Pilot travel tandems, as the air hardened 631 is just not well-suited for use with the couplers and is a little more susceptible to dents given its very thin-walled tubing.
    Last edited by TandemGeek; 06-23-09 at 11:44 PM.

  5. #5
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    Thank you for posting the detailed information, Ritterview. A carbon fork upgrade is $350 for a Wound-up Cantilever, and $400 for a duo-disc for either bike (about $200 less than getting it later).

    Do you folks think the carbon is worth considering?

    Thanks also for the clear description of my decision, TandemGeek. My gut is conflicted---it says better parts tend to work better, are easier to service, and need service less often. But I know you reach a point of diminishing returns where you pay much more and only get a tiny bit "better". If I were to choose, I'd certainly pay more now for Speedster's hubs and headset because they're more of a pain to change.

    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek View Post
    Enjoy the process because, on the bright side, I don't think you can make a bad choice so long as you get the frame size and color right, as everything else is fairly easy to change.
    A good perspective. Since I can remember, there are few things as fun as a new bike.

    Thanks for the responses so far!

  6. #6
    Senior Member brewer45's Avatar
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    Stoker Malkin and I got our Speedster about a year ago. We made the decision to get the Speedster over the other Co-Mo possibilities because:
    1) Upgraded components. I'm the captain, and the last thing I want to worry about is anything funky with shifting or braking. We've both ridden enough to appreciate the value of high-end components.
    2) We don't have a boat or recreational property.
    3) Although I'm pretty sure TG or Zona would smirk, we believe the Speedster to be our final tandem purchase and intend to ride it well into the sunset.

    By the way, Stoker Malkin loves the Thudbuster seatpost.
    We put disc brakes on front and rear. In retrospect, disc on the rear and rims on the front may have been a more suitable choice for our style of riding (flatlanders).

    Final piece of our experience: Work with a reputable and friendly LBS if you have the luxury.

    Cheers!
    Last edited by brewer45; 06-24-09 at 06:41 AM. Reason: error
    2008 Red Co-Motion Speedster Co-pilot (Redster)
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    2007 Giant FCR2W (stoker's commuter)
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  7. #7
    Senior Member rdtompki's Avatar
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    My wife and I are new to tandeming, but had test ridden Co-motion, daVinci and Santana. The Co-motion we test rode was the only tandem not equipped (at the store) with a CF fork. I felt quite a bit of road buzz in my hands and experienced tingling after only 2-3 miles on what was a pretty smooth road. For us, this made a fair comparison difficult and we ultimately went with another brand. I don't recall the model, but handling, shifting, braking, etc. all seemed fine on the Cm. One final note is that our tandem has a CF fork, but certain chip seal roads are still a problem for my hands. We're a bigger team (350 lbs) and I've got the front tire at 115 psi so that probably doesn't help.
    Rick T
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  8. #8
    Senior Member WebsterBikeMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek View Post
    Will you and yours appreciate the added-value of those premium-grade components and that lighter frameset? Or, would you rather put that $1,100 towards your optional disc, a suspension seat post and a paint upgrade? It all adds up rather fast and, well, beware the cost of accessories for the new tandem and wardrobe enhancements that often times seem to follow the acquisition of a new tandem.

    Enjoy the process because, on the bright side, I don't think you can make a bad choice so long as you get the frame size and color right, as everything else is fairly easy to change.
    Colour? That depends a lot on who you are. So many people buy a used tandem as their first tandem, there must be lots of people willing to take whatever colour they get. When the question of colour came up we just sort of looked at each other and laughed, as neither of us had really thought about it.

    But I'll back up the comment about size 100%.

    If you're paying list the difference is $1,250, and you can probably add tax to that. The only significant differences I see looking at the specs are the frame, headset, bottom brackets and cranks. The "better" bottom brackets and cranks have received mixed reviews. The main difference you might see is less in immediate function and frequency of maintenance but lifetime. If you get the cheaper one, fall in love with it, and are the sort to ride a lot and tour with it and keep it for a long time, then should those parts ever wear out you can replace them with the best known ones at the time. I'd say pocket the difference and put it toward that suspension seatpost, pedals, rack(s), pannier(s), water bottles, cages, fenders(?), lights(?), tool kit, pump, click-stand (TM), jerseys, what else have I forgotten...?

  9. #9
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corogers View Post
    Thank you for posting the detailed information, Ritterview. A carbon fork upgrade is $350 for a Wound-up Cantilever, and $400 for a duo-disc for either bike (about $200 less than getting it later).

    Do you folks think the carbon is worth considering?
    Personally, I would go with the CF fork, and skip the disc brakes, particularly the front.

    I think you'll find a noticeable difference in ride quality with the carbon forks.

    With a team weight of sub 300lbs, I don't think you're likely to need disc brakes, particularly if you're not going to be doing loaded touring in mountainous terrain.

    If you get the bike without disc brakes, and you find the braking not to be sufficient, you can always add a rear disc with little cost or effort, given that the bike will come with a rear disc brake mount.

    There are several posts on brake choice in an old blog I did fwiw.

    http://www.everestchallengex2.blogspot.com/
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  10. #10
    Tandem Vincitur Ritterview's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    With a team weight of sub 300lbs, I don't think you're likely to need disc brakes, particularly if you're not going to be doing loaded touring in mountainous terrain.

    If you get the bike without disc brakes, and you find the braking not to be sufficient, you can always add a rear disc with little cost or effort, given that the bike will come with a rear disc brake mount.
    The need for a disc brake has to do with your doing hills. Merlinextraligh is in pancake flat Florida, and his avatar shows his team in front of Sugarloaf Mountain, peninsular Florida's highest point, which isn't very high. They never see any hills in their riding save for freeway overpasses, and thus think rim brakes are sufficient. If you encounter more hills in your riding than Merlinextraligh, however, you'll need/want a disc brake. A rear disc should be sufficient, however.

  11. #11
    Senior Member joe@vwvortex's Avatar
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    I would also talk to your local shop that you are ordering the bike from. CoMo sells packages and if there is something your want to change like handlebars - they are unwilling to give much credit for deleting items. So I had two separate shops prepare proposals for customizing the bike to my specification in terms of saddles, bars etc. I bought it from my local shop since they were willing to put a better deal together for me.
    Administrator and Contributing Editor - Vortex Media Group

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    Disc Brakes

    FWIW

    We wish we had disc brakes on our tandem (2002 Co-Motion Supremo) for the very fast descents we experience in Colorado. In particular, the stoker understandably does not like to go above 45 mph+ unless mostly straight downhill (vs curvy). As a ~ 350 lb team, we can eclipse 45 mph regularly on much of our terrain.

    Also, though I have not tried a non-carbon fork. Our carbon fork makes for a nice smooth ride (smoother than single.)

  13. #13
    Senior Member ftsoft's Avatar
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    We have Speedster. We got the disc brake (which I like very much), but not the CF fork. I wish I had gotten the CF fork, but the Cromoly fork is adequate for rides up to 70-80 miles so far. I switched the bars for some carbon bars (not much of a difference) and I change hand positions a lot. If we are going hard then it's not really a problem, it's when we are kicking back and I'm riding the bar tops a lot that I notice some hand numbness

    Frank

  14. #14
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
    The need for a disc brake has to do with your doing hills. Merlinextraligh is in pancake flat Florida, and his avatar shows his team in front of Sugarloaf Mountain, peninsular Florida's highest point, which isn't very high. They never see any hills in their riding save for freeway overpasses, and thus think rim brakes are sufficient. If you encounter more hills in your riding than Merlinextraligh, however, you'll need/want a disc brake. A rear disc should be sufficient, however.
    Actually, the bike was purchased and the brakes spec'd with Everest Challenge in mind. The bike did wonderfully on 5-6 mile descents in the Sierras (with a max speed of 62mph), and in the training rides in North Georgia, including descending Brasstown Bald (21% grade.)

    To me whether you need a disc is part a matter of riding styles, terrain, priorities, and ultimately a fair amount of personal preference.

    (and the avatar's on the Col de Galbier)
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    You could get lost and die.
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  15. #15
    Senior Member WebsterBikeMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
    The need for a disc brake has to do with your doing hills. If you encounter more hills in your riding than Merlinextraligh, however, you'll need/want a disc brake. A rear disc should be sufficient, however.
    It's been said many times before, but I'll say it again: you don't need a disc brake to do hills. The single most compelling reason for a disc brake is that it stays relatively dry when the rims get wet. Good rim brakes with good quality shoes do an excellent job of stopping a bike even when wet. They might take one revolution (3 yards) to get full braking power, but they will already make a substantial difference during that first revolution. Lower quality shoes, or the wrong kind of shoes for the job, not so much.

    Disc brakes are (typically) heavier, rotors can warp, you need disc-specific wheel(s); but lots of folks have them, and are quite happy with them. They will be less likely to interfere with mounting a rear rack. Just don't get them because you "need" them because of hills.

    Where hills come in is if you have a long downhill with multiple switchbacks, or something approximating that, where you need to limit your speed, but not stop. There you need a drag brake, especially if you have a load. With rim brakes, you can overheat the rim, leading to tire failure; with disc brakes you can overheat the disk, leading to brake failure. It's not the speed, it's the amount of time you need to spend retarding the speed. If hills and especially loaded touring on hills are in your future, consider a drum brake.

    See also Sheldon Brown's excellent discussion of brakes.

  16. #16
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    If y'all want to start another thread on the merits of disc brakes where you can share your personal experiences, it's probably reached that point....

    To the OP, I make a point of trying to answer the questions that are asked. You didn't ask if you needed a disc and as you can see, it's a rather polarizing subject. Imagine that.

    Anyway, you're on the right track here with your original post. Continue to do your homework, make sure you get your advise from folks who you think may have riding habits and frequent locales similar to where you'll ride and who can speak from first-hand experience with respect to the brakes (or any other component for that matter) you are considering.

  17. #17
    Senior Member joe@vwvortex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebsterBikeMan View Post
    It's been said many times before, but I'll say it again: you don't need a disc brake to do hills. The single most compelling reason for a disc brake is that it stays relatively dry when the rims get wet. Good rim brakes with good quality shoes do an excellent job of stopping a bike even when wet. They might take one revolution (3 yards) to get full braking power, but they will already make a substantial difference during that first revolution. Lower quality shoes, or the wrong kind of shoes for the job, not so much.
    When purchasing our tandem - I test road all three types of brakes, disc, caliper (Dura Ace) and V-brakes (Avid Single Digit 7's). I took the tandem down a hill and using only the rear brake - tested which one stopped the bike in the shortest distance when hitting the brake at the same point - going approximately the same speed. The disc repeatedly stopped the bike quicker than the other two. All three bikes were CoMo's and weighed about the same as well. I did the same with the front brake. I bought a bike with V-brakes in the front and disc in the rear.

    Disc brakes are (typically) heavier, rotors can warp, you need disc-specific wheel(s); but lots of folks have them, and are quite happy with them. They will be less likely to interfere with mounting a rear rack. Just don't get them because you "need" them because of hills.

    Where hills come in is if you have a long downhill with multiple switchbacks, or something approximating that, where you need to limit your speed, but not stop. There you need a drag brake, especially if you have a load. With rim brakes, you can overheat the rim, leading to tire failure; with disc brakes you can overheat the disk, leading to brake failure. It's not the speed, it's the amount of time you need to spend retarding the speed. If hills and especially loaded touring on hills are in your future, consider a drum brake.

    See also Sheldon Brown's excellent discussion of brakes.
    I've never warped a disc on my tandem or MTB, ever. I've had to stop and let the brakes cool down though as my front rim was way too hot and I risked blowing a tube/tire. At that point - the rear disc was still functioning fine. If I had a front disc - I might not have had to stop for fear of the tire blowing out. This was on a descent on an organized ride where I had to continually control my speed due to lots of other riders on a steep narrow road.

    If you want to talk about heavy - then talk about drum brakes. I had one on a previous tandem and my current bike is equipped to run a disc or V-brakes and a drum - using the same rear wheel. The disc adaptor screws right on to the place where the drum would go. Almost every tandem wheel offers this - so there is no need for a disc specific wheelset unless running a front disc. Even then - you could build a wheelset with a disc specific hub but with a rim that can accommodate a rim brake. I agree with you that if you want to do loaded touring a drum brake would come in handy and that is exactly why I can put one on my bike - assuming of course I get one now before they become extinct.
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  18. #18
    Tandem Vincitur Ritterview's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    Actually, the bike was purchased and the brakes spec'd with Everest Challenge in mind. The bike did wonderfully on 5-6 mile descents in the Sierras (with a max speed of 62mph)...
    So, you did the Everest Challenge with just rim brakes? Did your rims get hot? Maybe they did get hot, and were on the verge of disaster, but the tubes didn't pop, and so you figure they worked fine.



    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    (and the avatar's on the Col de Galbier)
    Dang, I thought for sure that it was Florida's towering Sugarloaf Mountain! (actually, I had always thought that was a peak in the Eastern Sierra's from the Everest Challenge).




    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek View Post
    If y'all want to start another thread on the merits of disc brakes where you can share your personal experiences, it's probably reached that point....
    Heck, this thread is at nearly as much risk of veering tangential into the merits of carbon forks. The OP is a veritable free-for-all on how to equip a moderately priced tandem. This forum has been relatively dead for days now, we shouldn't try to organize the fun just as it is getting going.
    Last edited by Ritterview; 06-24-09 at 05:53 PM.

  19. #19
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
    So, you did the Everest Challenge with just rim brakes? Did your rims get hot? Maybe they did get hot, and were on the verge of disaster, but the tubes didn't pop, and so you figure they worked fine.




    Actually doing EC the descents are very long, and not that much braking. So you're going flat out, then hitting the brakes hard for a second, and repeating. So overheting wasn't a big issue.

    Some of the descents in North Georgia, and West Viriginia, that are tighter were more of an issue.

    Coming down Brasstown, where you pretty much are on and off the brakes constantly we were at the edge of having to take a break to cool off by the time we got to the bottom.

    But Brasstown is pretty much at one end of the Bell curve, 21% grade, twisty, and dangerous enough that you can't bomb it. We figured if we could manage that with rim brakes they were going to be enough for anything we were likely to do.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  20. #20
    Cyclist- Bike 'n a half
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    Sugarloaf is the 4th highest in FL, but not by much, according to Wiki.

    Britton Hill 345 feet
    Oak Hill 331 feet
    High Hill 323 feet
    Sugarloaf Mountain 312 feet

    Buck Hill & Grassy Lake aren't as high, but are more steep than Sugarloaf, if you believe what my Garmin reads.

  21. #21
    Florida rider bikeguy's Avatar
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    nice work Reg....

  22. #22
    Senior Member zonatandem's Avatar
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    Any model Co-Motion tandem is a good choice . . .
    A c/f fork is a great upgrade and will give less road buzz to pilot's hands/forearms.
    A suspension seatpost may/may not be necessary and is cheaper to buy/upgrade than a fork.
    Disc brake(s) depend on where you live. In the Rockies? A rear disc may be a good idea.
    If you are fussy about bike paint color, a $100 upgrade on a Primera is not a huge outlay.
    On our personal tandem we do not use disc or drum; Dura Ace caliper front, Tektro Mini Max V-brake rear. No suspension seatpost.
    We've ridden in 30 some states including higher elevations (9,000+ ft) and have always managed well with just front and rear calipers/V-brakes and yes . . . Mafac cantilevers!
    We now have a full c/f bike, including fork/bars/adjustable stoker stem and rear rack.
    We can attest to the comfort of c/f.
    Even on our previous 4 tandems (all steel alloy) we never used a suspension seatpost and only our very first tandem back in the mid-70s had a drum brake (which we soon got rid of).
    In our opinion the Primera is a great bike and for that price you can afford to upgrade to a c/f fork + whatever else you need.
    BTW Zona team does not 'smirk' at Co-Motions or any other tandems that are being ridden . . . we owned/rode a Co-Mo for 57,000+ miles and we were extremely satisifed!
    Too many tandems sit and gather dust in garages . . . that's when we may give just a barely noticeable smirk!
    Add it all up: bike/upgrades/accessories (and a couple matching jerseys?). Then buy the one that suits your budget.
    Pedal on TWOgether!
    Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

    BTW: Happy Anniversary!!!

  23. #23
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    Thanks to everyone for the responses so far, some good thoughtful advice.

    I'm definitely considering the brake mix, and am thinking harder on the carbon fork (pounding though the handlebars pushed me from aluminum to carbon on my solo bike a couple of years ago). I'll also start considering what accessories we'll add up front.

    I live near Minneapolis, so no mountains in sight, just a mix of flats, small hills, and some long steady grades. We do ride the north shore of Lake Superior, which feels like a lot of up-and-down, but nothing too long. We ride in Duluth, which is siutated on some pretty steep hills, but not long---I'd guess a 700-800 foot vertical drop in a half mile. I expect the bike to be used for some touring, so hope to see some mountains with it, but no immediate plans beyond the surrounding states.

    Happily, my local shop (Freewheel) is excellent, and really works to get a good fit. The person we've talked to there is a regular tandem rider, and really seems to know her stuff. I'll talk to her some more about all of this, but I don't know any other area tandem riders.

    Additional advice is welcome! Thanks again, folks.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by zonatandem View Post
    BTW: Happy Anniversary!!!
    Thank you!

  25. #25
    Tandem Vincitur Ritterview's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corogers View Post
    I live near Minneapolis, so no mountains in sight, just a mix of flats, small hills, and some long steady grades.
    But what if you do the Horribly Hilly Hundreds, only 260 miles away in neighboring Wisconsin? Rim heat city. Kaboom!


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