HELP: T1000 vs Tamburello vs RT1000
Even with all the wonderful and insightful information on this board and I cannot find the exact information I am looking for...please help!
We (my wife and I) are looking to buy a tandem and below are the models that we are considering (with some comments). I was hoping that someone (more informed in the ways of tandems) can chime in and give their 2 cents.
1. Trek 2004 T1000
I haven't heard anything (good or bad) about this one. What the heck is ZR9000 and is it better than 7000 series aluminum? Anyone out there that has it?
2. Burley 2004 Tamburello
The only real tandem that we test rode. Feels fine (with our limited experience)
3. Cannondale 2004 RT1000
Concerned with the sizes that are available. I am 6.1 with a 32" in-seam and my wife is 5.8 with a 31" in-seam. The only size that seems right is the jumbo/large (61"/?"). My concern is that at 61" its too big. I typically ride a 58" with the seat post pretty high up.
Thanks in advance for the help.
PS: Please feel free to mail me directly (email@example.com)
Don't buy unless you can test ride. There are subtle differences in tubing, price and componetry and a long test ride (at least 10 miles) will give you a better 'feel' for the bike. ZR9000 is Trek's 'buzzword' for their tuing
With a tandem the pilot needs extra standover room. Pilot has to be able to stand with feet FLAT on the ground and spread quite widely apart to balance the bike. Also before starting off, stoker gets seated and clips in both feet while captain holds both brakes. She then, if necessary, roates her pedals [I]backward[I] to get captains pedal up for his start-up postion. Pilot does not want to get banged in the leg when stoker backpedals.
The Tamburello measures 59/51cm (23x20") and should be a good fit and a real fine tandem to boot, made in Eugene, OR USA. And for a very nominal 'upcharge' Burley will give you a choice of 6 other colors if you don't care for the standard Tamb color.
Pedal on 2-gether!
Rudy and Kay/Zona tandem
Nide tandem with a competitive component package for a fair price, perhaps a "better value" than the Burley Tamburello depending on discounts, etc... Haven't heard of any complaints aside from the usual issues that first time tandem captains have with rim brakes on tandems. You can read about ZR9000 here: http://www.kleinbikes.com/assets/ass...le589_1172.pdf
Originally Posted by davidjung
As to whether or not ZR9000 is any better than 6061, 7000 or 7005 alloys, it all comes down to the test ride. A few reviews here: http://www.roadbikereview.com/2003,R...8_4341crx.aspx
Great company, great products. Very similar to the Trek T1000, in fact, when the Burley Aluminum frames were first introduced a few years back Trek was making the frames for Burley. Burley now builds them in house. Again, a good value for a "made-in-America" frame / tandem (which, incidently, is true for all three of these tandems). Sizing tables are here: http://www.burley.com/images/PDF/04TamburelloSpecs.pdf
Originally Posted by davidjung
Key-off of the top-tube length & standover height more so than the seat-post height. Tandems tend to be like compact geometry road bikes in that the sloping top tubes can create a seat tube length that understates the real size of the frame relative to a good fit. Here is a link to Cannondale's geometry tables for the RT: http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/04/geo-30.html
Originally Posted by davidjung
I think based on your info that the X/M is the proper size. However, that's only keying off of standover height. Again, the length of the top tube is something you'd want to look at. As for your stoker, the X/M's 28.1" top tube is a bit longer (1/2") than the other tandems you are looking at so that's a plus given her height. On the value-point, I probably sound like the C'dale sales rep since I keep saying this but it really is an incredible value. In fact, that could be a problem as at least one reader of this list noted they had ordered a C'dale several months back and as of a few weeks ago it was still on back order. Therefore, finding any dealers or distributors "holding" any RTs could be a challenge relative to a test ride or even purchase.
Bottom Line remains: Stay within your budget, meet your needs, and go with the tandem that fits (#1) and handles (#2) the best. Handling will improve over time, but a bad fit never goes away.
There you go; my .02. Good hunting.
Last edited by livngood; 07-28-04 at 10:58 AM.
"With a tandem the pilot needs extra standover room. Pilot has to be able to stand with feet FLAT on the ground and spread quite widely apart to balance the bike. Also before starting off, stoker gets seated and clips in both feet while captain holds both brakes. She then, if necessary, roates her pedals [I]backward[I] to get captains pedal up for his start-up postion. Pilot does not want to get banged in the leg when stoker backpedals."
Assumptions are made here about how a tandem can be boarded and started. Fact is, more than one method is in common use, and this tends to be determined by team preferences and relative size of captain and stoker and can also change according to tactical requirements during the ride or shoe type (sticky rubber lug-soled MTB/touring shoes, or slippery plastic-soled racing shoes). Proceeding from a single method of use to conclusions about sizing required by that method of use might not serve all teams best, particularly if not all manufacturers set their tandem size dimensions using that methodology. Different top tube standover heights might then be associated with different handlebar and saddle heights and top tube lengths.
Given your nearly equal inseam lengths, you may very well decide to board off one captain foot, and to start off one captain foot and one stoker foot on the same side of the bike. Or to choose from the other methods.
It's a good idea to take transferable measurements from your single bikes and a tape measure to the bike shop. You will want to verify the bottom bracket heights (Santana is known to be a little lower) and your saddle and handlebar heights, the saddle setback on the seatpost, and the horizontal distance between the center of the seatpost and the center of the handlebars. It's easy to obtain the heights off a ground plane, but if the BB height is a little lower, you will actually have set your fit a little high in comparison with the crankset. I like to set fit in the middle of the range of available stem lengths and heights. That way, if you later decide that you were off by a little, it is easy to make small changes either way.
The Flight Deck computer that works with some STI levers is a great addition to a tandem. You have no business trying to duck your head down far enough to get a look at the rear cassette to see where you are on the cassette (it's a lot farther back than on a single bike), particularly in a pack, and luckily the Flight Deck graphic display puts that information right on your handlebar.
I did the Mount Evans (Colorado) Citizens race last Saturday on a single. I got passed by a Seven titanium tandem doing 11 mph to my 10. I asked them if I could jump on and stayed with them for a mile before I thought it was prudent to say goodbye. I was doing the best I could for a fellow who had come from an elevation of 450 feet above sea level just a week ago....
I will be on a tandem at Goat Neck, Cleburne, TX, this weekend.
True there are several 'methods' of a team nounting a tandem and we all have our own preferred way of doing things. But a pilot still has to be able to balance the tandem and stoker, so it is important that he'd be able to get both feet FLAT on the ground. You re not just responsible for yourself and stokers do not like getting 'dumped.' You can also choose to pedal in-phase or out-of-phase (but that's another kettle of fish!). And from your near similar inseam length, it is possible you two may want to swap riding postions. So if your significant other so desires, see if she wants to be the pilot, and you 'shovel the coal' as stoker.
Again we strongly suggest test riding before buying. Do talk with other tandem owners/riders, if possible, and see what their preferences have . . . and why. 'Cause once you've bought, it is too late.
You are going about it the right way; do your research, do your test riding.
After you've ridden 'in tandem' for a year, we are sure you'll have your own opinions and probably will make some changes or even buy another, and better for you, tandem!
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/Zona tandem
"But a pilot still has to be able to balance the tandem and stoker, so it is important that he'd be able to get both feet FLAT on the ground."
1. If the team starts off and stops on one captain foot and one stoker foot, the captain DOES NOT have to balance the tandem and the stoker.
2. If it is possible to reliably board and start off and stop on one captain foot or one stoker foot, then it is not important that the captain be able to "get both feet FLAT on the ground."
A quick check of Litespeed's thread, "stocker in or out", easily found near the bottom of the first page of threads, finds two posters (ncernitz and mlwschultz) who are part of teams who start off and stop on one captain foot and one stoker foot. No doubt there are many others. Are they all wrong? Is what they say they are doing impossible? Are the stokers more or less likely to get "dumped" with one foot or no feet on the ground? There is probably also a significant percentage of teams that start off one foot.
I would like to see people coming to this forum for advice on a significant purchase objectively presented with the full range of choices. That includes methods and materials.
We bought the 2004 Cannondale road tandem back in May. It is a nice bike. The only other tandem that felt good was the Trek T2000, but that was almost $1,000 more. I'm 6'1" and my wife is 5'8" like you, and we got the x-large / medium and it fits us great. I had to get the handle bar neck shortened to get a proper fit but other than that the bike is stock.
The Cannondale is a thicker heavier duty alum then the Trek ZR9000 which is good for us being a heavier team. The bike weighs in at 39 lbs, which I don't feel is too bad. We can climb hills pretty well and the wife still won't let me open it up on the down hills.
We test rode Santana, Burley, Trek and Cannondale and like the ride of the Cannondale the best and the price wasn't too bad either.
Get the tandem that feels the best - that is the best advice you can get. It should feel comfortable and fun to ride.
Mark & Laura
Thanks for the info and thanks everyone for their opinions.
Originally Posted by markm109
PS Mark, what is the total weight of your tandem team?