galen_52657

Was out riding with stoker #1 this afternoon and almost fell over in a busy intersection! I messed up, not her. It was late rush hour and we were trying to get a ride in before dark. We were stopped at a stop sign waiting for a brake in a horrendous line of traffic, mostly going in one direction with occasional cars coming the other way. We wanted to turn left, which would be with the horrendous traffic, but only for a half mile or so before we would turn off the busy road. The road we were on was slightly up hill, so I was in the granny and the 26 or 23 in the back. My stoker was strapped in her pedals with the pedals in the ‘take off position’. My right foot was clipped in, holding us up with my left foot. I said ‘as soon as we get a chance to go, just keep pedaling even if I don’t get clipped in right away’. So, some nice person who wants to take a left into the road we are on takes pity on us and waves us out, stacking up a zillion cars behind them. The site line from the other way is short and the speed limit is high, so I say ‘go’ and step down on the right pedal. Well, I did not get my butt up on the seat fast enough so I could not pull up with the clipped in pedal and she could not pedal against my body weight. We wobbled, I dabbed with the left foot and bounced myself up on the seat and off we went… only embarrassed! I think the takeoff gear was to low.

tornadobass

Not as bad as falling over at a stop sign, but it must have been frustrating nonetheless. Did you ever have trouble getting started and the stoker lifts you off the ground as you pedal rises? That's a weird feeling.

Dan

SDS

You have to be all grown up before you can admit your mistakes and learn from them. I'm probably not all the way there yet.

What to do differently next time:

1. Have Flight Deck computer and know what gear you are in.

2. In wrong gear at intersection and it is going to matter? Do U-turn and go opposite way, then do another U-turn and end up in the proper gear at the intersection. Good advice for many endeavors is to never press a bad position. If you are in the wrong gear, fix it. The other thing you can do is to have the stoker pick up the back of the tandem with legs spread wide, while the captain pedals with one leg and shifts.

Another thing really similar to this, on a single or a tandem, is to have a preset strategy in the event of chaindrop on a hill. Check for traffic and bikes all around, U-turn, then instead of rapidly decaying speed and limited time, you have constant or improving speed whilst you work the FD with the shifter to recover the chain onto a ring.

3. Maybe the best thing to do was to walk/run the bike across the traffic to the opposite shoulder.

For a dragracer start, stoker fully clipped in is the way to start.

You got hammered by the too-low gear twice. First with the pedal dropping out from under you too fast because the gear was too low, you didn't get your butt up on the seat in time, and then with your speed quickly decaying to unacceptably low levels because the starting gear was too low and you were going uphill, you couldn't coast, and stand up, line up, lock up, and go.

It sounds like the real problem was the wobble. If you hadn't had to interrupt getting aboard to dab, you would have had one foot in and another on top of the pedal as you were getting onto the saddle, and you would have had enough control, power and stability to rapidly improve the situation by adding power and shifting up.

There is no perfect approach to life because the universe is full of people who optimize according to their own desires. Once we were about to turn left off of a two lane road onto a two lane road. The other road had stop signs, we did not. We were on the left side of the lane, we had stuck our arms out to signal the turn, and only just before we turned, we got passed by a car on the wrong (left) side of the road coming from behind us. That was really close.....I can't remember if we were using mirrors back then, but NOW we do.

zonatandem

Hey, you saved the day anyway . . . no crashing.
We avoid that problem by pedaling 90 degrees out-of-phase (OOP); there is always a power stroke; very effective on take-offs even in too low of a gear.
Give it a try!
Rudy and Kay/Zona tandem

galen_52657

Can you climb standing with the pedals out of phase?

stapfam

I normally ride as stoker, but occasionally get to have a go up the front with the occasional solo rider that wants to try the Tandem. With my normal partner, we start with just right foot clipped in, left on the ground, push down, away and sit on the saddle. I know this is frowned upon by lots of teams, but it works for us, and we cannot get on with the conventional start with the stoker clipped in with both feet. Our way works for us, so that is what we do.
However, on a recent ride with a new stoker, we tried the stoker clipped in at the start, and as it was slightly uphill, I told the stoker to pedal hard when we started. I don't know what happened as it did happen so fast, but there I was, one foot clipped in for about 6 revolutions, not able to clip in with the other foot, and not able to find the saddle. I will not be trying Pilot again for a long time until the new stoker can start in our "Normal" fashion.

galen_52657

My stoker and I have also tried the ‘2 lefts down’ takeoff with success. However, I think we like the stoker strapped in better. The main problem was that due to the traffic conditions, we were somewhat stressed about the takeoff. Then, when we did take off I paid more attention to pedaling down hard to get going and not enough to sitting on the saddle. Because of that error, and the small gear we were in, my right foot bottomed and my bodyweight was too much for my stoker to pedal against. Once I dabbed with the left I was able to hop up on the saddle and resume pedaling, after almost wrenching my stoker’s leg off.

Steve Katzman

Well of course. The number one rule of tandeming as espoused by Bill McCready of Santana makes that perfectly clear.

"The stoker makes no mistakes"

For a more thorough explanation see: https://www.gtgtandems.com/tech/propmethod.html

TandemGeek

Like a lot of things with tandems, anticipation and a conservative approach to challenging situations is often times the only sure-fire solution to potential problems.

Unfortunately, as you just discovered, we almost all learn those lessons the hard way.

Shift early and shift often seems to be the fix for mitigating start-ups in too big of a gear as well as getting caught with the chain stuck in the middle chainring on steep climbs. Just something to put in the back of your mind.

galen_52657

There definitely is a learning curve for riding ‘The Bus’ as I affectionately call my tandem. And as I mess up and report back, I sure hope all the seasoned vets will chime in with words of wisdom.

I have already been caught slogging away in the middle chainring on more than one occasion after requesting a ‘soft pedal’ to downshift to the granny to late, or just misjudging the hill.

As soon as I get on the tandem I have to change mindsets!

Now I have a question regarding the ‘stoker is never wrong’ rule. If the captain calls out to stand to get over a steep but short bump in the road and the stoker is taking photos and can’t grab the bars to stand with a camera in her hands… is it still the captain’s fault????

TandemGeek

No, no.... It's not that the stoker is never wrong -- as they in fact are. The expression is, "The Stoker makes.... no mistakes". This is Mr. Bill's comments on the subject:
Bill's Primary Rule of Tandeming settles this and most related questions. It's very simple. Only five words to remember. After discovering The Method nearly thirty years ago, I perfected the present wording of Bill's Primary Rule of Tandeming a few years later. Use it to settle all tandem disputes. Are you ready? The next line you read is Bill's Primary Rule of Tandeming:

So, back to your situation, you'll have to be the one who decides whether tis nobler to place the blame on the stoker for taking photos or, perhaps, accept responsibility for yet two more lesson's learned:

1. Remind the stoker to always advise the captain what they are up to whilst on the back of the tandem.
2. When aware that the stoker is doing something other than riding with hands on the bars, ride with your eyes further ahead on the road so that you're stoker will have time to react.

galen_52657

I shall practice your advice!