Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Tandem Cycling A bicycle built for two. Want to find out more about this wonderful world of tandems? Check out this forum to talk with other tandem enthusiasts. Captains and stokers welcome!

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-11-09, 11:47 PM   #1
jnbrown
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jnbrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 969
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ti Freehub?

Any reason not to get a White Industries tandem hub with Ti freehub instead of steel?
It seems $30 more to save 60g is worthwhile. I know 60g isn't much, but I think $ per gram.
jnbrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-09, 02:27 PM   #2
rmac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 569
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We've had a Shimano WI titanium cassette carrier and just bought a new wheel with a Campy carrier. The only problem we had was with a Shimano cassette that has limited teeth on some of the smaller cogs. Those cogs cut into the carrier. Not a big problem but we bought the steel clip adapter that spreads out the load.
rmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-09, 03:49 PM   #3
jnbrown
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jnbrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 969
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Steel clip adapter? What is it and where do you buy it?
If it weighs any thing it might negate the weight savings of the Ti freehub.
jnbrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-09, 04:17 PM   #4
jnbrown
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jnbrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 969
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
OK, I found American Classic makes them.
It seems AC came up with them to solve the notching problem on their aluminum freehubs which is quite ingenious.
Aluminum is a lot softer than steel or Ti.
I am a little surprised the notching was that bad on your Ti freehub to require the clips.
I think maybe I would be better off saving some money and going with steel and no clips.
jnbrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-09, 04:57 PM   #5
rmac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 569
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What cassette will you be using? The problem only occurs with Ultegra and DuraAce cassettes. I think all other cassettes have a decent number of teeth. My 12-30 IRD cassette does not cause this problem
rmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-09, 05:27 PM   #6
jnbrown
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jnbrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 969
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmac View Post
What cassette will you be using? The problem only occurs with Ultegra and DuraAce cassettes. I think all other cassettes have a decent number of teeth. My 12-30 IRD cassette does not cause this problem
Ultegra 6700 11-28
jnbrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-09, 05:51 PM   #7
jnbrown
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jnbrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 969
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmac View Post
What cassette will you be using? The problem only occurs with Ultegra and DuraAce cassettes. I think all other cassettes have a decent number of teeth. My 12-30 IRD cassette does not cause this problem
Shimano uses Ti freehubs on Dura Ace hubs so I wonder why it is not a problem for them?
I am thinking the newer Shimano cassettes don't have the missing splines on the smaller cogs.
My 6700 cassette should be arriving soon so I can check.
jnbrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-09, 05:56 PM   #8
tandem rider
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Bikes: Co-Motion tandem, Serotta, and Specialized mt. bike
Posts: 348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnbrown View Post
Shimano uses Ti freehubs on Dura Ace hubs so I wonder why it is not a problem for them?
I am thinking the newer Shimano cassettes don't have the missing splines on the smaller cogs.
My 6700 cassette should be arriving soon so I can check.

Two people on a tandem produce more power and the lower gearing (larger cogs) have more torque on the hub.
tandem rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-09, 06:32 PM   #9
jnbrown
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jnbrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 969
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tandem rider View Post
Two people on a tandem produce more power and the lower gearing (larger cogs) have more torque on the hub.
The three largest cog are connected together with an aluminum spider that has a wide contact area with the freehub, so that should not be a concern.
I can see how the added power might, be we don't put out that much power.
Anyway I just weighed an empty water bottle and it weighs 150g so maybe spending that extra money to save 60g is nonsense.
jnbrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-09, 03:04 PM   #10
humint
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The CORRECT answer to your question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnbrown View Post
Any reason not to get a White Industries tandem hub with Ti freehub instead of steel?
It seems $30 more to save 60g is worthwhile. I know 60g isn't much, but I think $ per gram.
The only reason not to get it, is because you like a tandem bike that has 2 extra ounces of rotational weight!

I have a set of Rolf Prima Vigor Wheels with the TI freehub body.

I believe that the hub and freehub are from White Industries.

We have had this wheelset on our tandem bike since 2004. (We are M/F 295lb team that is race/performance-oriented on a 30lb tandem. We scorch the pavement and regularly keep up with and occasionally best former Olympian and US Cycling Hall of Fame tandem teams).

We have logged close to 10,000 very hilly miles on this wheelset.

The Ti freehub has NEVER had any problems. Period.

At the $ per gram ratio, it was one of the best $ I have ever spent in weight reduction.

Go for it.
humint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-09, 06:57 PM   #11
TandemGeek
hors category
 
TandemGeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 7,208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by humint View Post
The only reason not to get it, is because you like a tandem bike that has 2 extra ounces of rotational weight!
Hmmmm. Not really, given the proximity of the hub carrier to the wheel axle. Even the carbon hubs on our Topolino's don't do much in that regard.
TandemGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-09, 11:03 PM   #12
jnbrown
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jnbrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 969
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I ended up getting the steel.
After talking with somebody at WI the weight difference was only 23g and they recommended steel for tandem use.
Have the hub here, its a real work of art, can't wait to build the wheels.
Rotating weight is often misunderstood, even at the rim its roughly equivalent to 2X non rotating weight.
So if you save 50g on rim / tire its like saving 100g. Not much but something if you are a weight weenie.
Also rotating weight has virtually nothing to do with acceleration. Bicycles accelerate so slowly that it would take very large weight difference at the rim to matter.
You can easily spin a wheel up to speed with your finger, not much wattage needed to do that.
When I read something like "these wheels spin up fast" or "wheels accelerate fast" or "climbing wheels" I just wonder how they come up such nonsense.
jnbrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-09, 08:25 AM   #13
TandemGeek
hors category
 
TandemGeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 7,208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnbrown View Post
Also rotating weight has virtually nothing to do with acceleration. Bicycles accelerate so slowly that it would take very large weight difference at the rim to matter.
True. The reductions associated with reduced rotational mass are just about negligible. Reductions in aerodynamic drag always trump rotating mass which is why professional cyclists routinely trade-off reductions in aero drag for increased wheel weight associated with very deep section rims. There's actually some pretty good information that's easy enough for just about every average Joe to understand here on the subject: http://www.biketechreview.com/archive/wheel_theory.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnbrown View Post
When I read something like "these wheels spin up fast" or "wheels accelerate fast" or "climbing wheels" I just wonder how they come up such nonsense.
I'm not sure how many different types of wheels you've used on the same bicycle or tandem, but based on my own experience over the years different wheels, tires and changes in tires and tire pressure as well as different types of road surfaces will all produce changes in sound and road feel that produce the perceptions you mention. I tend to caveat most of my observations in this regard with the words "feel _____" because, frankly, the sensation you get from a conventionally spoked 36h wheel are different from a Rolf Prima Vigor and a Topolino AX3.0T.

Case in point, a lot of folks who have been riding a stock 40h tandem wheelset with wire-beaded 28mm tires that tips the scales at nearly 3,600 grams once you add in the tubes and rim strip tape can truly feel the difference when they drop nearly 2lbs by moving over to lightweight racing wheels with narrow, higher pressure tires and that's what we often hear in terms of feedback. Add in the the reduction in wind noise that comes from removing 1/2 the spokes from the front wheels coupled with bladed spokes and a deep-section V-rim + the more lively feel that the less compliant tires and wheel provide and even a 350lb tandem will feel much more lively and spry, even if the actual performance change is on the order of 1% - 2%. Then, add to that the placebo effect that comes with any 'performance upgrade' and there you go.

Last edited by TandemGeek; 12-24-09 at 12:43 PM.
TandemGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:27 PM.