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  1. #1
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    fsa braze on front derailleur adapter

    I was reading the FSA tandem crankset installation manual and they mention a Braze-On Front Derailleur Adapter Clamp.
    Does this come with the crankset? I see it online as a separate item.
    Should this be used instead of a clamp on derailleur?
    Does it work with Campy braze on derailleurs?
    I have my eye on a Record Titanium triple braze on derailleur that has been mentioned here before.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnbrown View Post
    I was reading the FSA tandem crankset installation manual and they mention a Braze-On Front Derailleur Adapter Clamp.
    Does this come with the crankset? I see it online as a separate item.
    Should this be used instead of a clamp on derailleur?
    Does it work with Campy braze on derailleurs?
    I have my eye on a Record Titanium triple braze on derailleur that has been mentioned here before.

    Thanks
    If you're interested in a Campy derailleur why not just get the Campy clamp. They are between $18 and $30.

    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Ca...ps/5360039808/

  3. #3
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    I could also just get a clamp on Campy derailleur. The thing I am not sure of is if the derailleur will reach out far enough since the chainrings are further out on a tandem than on a single by 5mm or so.

  4. #4
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnbrown View Post
    I could also just get a clamp on Campy derailleur. The thing I am not sure of is if the derailleur will reach out far enough since the chainrings are further out on a tandem than on a single by 5mm or so.
    I thought we discussed the nuances of front derailleur spacing in a previous thread that you started on chain lines?

    As I noted, if you're messing around with 160mm rear spacing and are attempting to compensate the chain line for the added cassette off-set you'll need to search out one of Santana's Far-Out front derailleur clamps; they are the only ones that move the front derailleur out the extra 5mm that you are looking for.

    For 145mm or narrower-spaced tandems, so long as the clamp will fit around the rear seat tube it doesn't matter whose clamp you use; they're universally compatible with front derailleurs made without the integrated clamp that were designed to bolt to frames with brazed-on clamps, i.e., 'braze-on derailleurs". The clamps marketed by Campy, Shimano, FSA and others all align to the same off-set used for standard front derailleur mountings... and that's typically 'good enough' for tandems with up to 145mm rear spacing. The only difference in these various clamps are cosmetic so if you're a Campy purist then, by all means, get one of the Campy FD clamps.

    Again, for 160mm rear spacing, when Santana switched from bar-end and downtube shifting to STI for their triple-equipped tandems -- first using Glenn Erickson's Gizzmo on DuraAce STI that was not made for triples -- and then with the 105 Triple when it became available, the front derailleur shifting that had previously been good was now less than good. So, they came up with the special 'Far-Out' front derailleur clamp that moved the front derailleur 5mm further away from the frame to solve the balky and problematic front shifting on their '99 and up models.

    Also as previously noted, the other thing you need to be mindful of when using the 'Far-Out' front derailleur clamp is the need to have either an off-set or very wide rear spindle that will allow the right side drive crank to take advantage of the extra 5mm of front chainline off-set: I believe Santana spec's something like a 127mm or 129mm wide spindle in this regard depending on when it was produced. For reference purposes, we use a 111mm for Debbie in back and I have a 108mm spindle on our 145mm rear-spaced tandems, i.e., the preference for narrow tread is one of the reasons we decided to replace our first tandem -- a '95/96 Santana Arriva -- after 8 months.

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    Maybe I am being overly concerned here, my previous post had more to do with chain lines in particular and not a concern with the FD although I think that was discussed as well.
    This is for 145mm (Calfee) not 160mm.
    Here is what I found in the Gossamer tandem crankset installation manual:

    Note: Rear crankset requires FSA Tandem Braze-On Front Derailleur Adapter

    To me the word "requires" would mean there is something special or different from a standard braze on adapter or clamp on derailleur.
    I just made some measurements on the White Mi6 hub with a ten speed cassette installed and I come up with a chain line of 50.5mm
    This is 5mm more than a standard road bike triple chain line and it also matches the 50.5mm chain line described in the Gossamer installation manual with one spacer installed on each side of the spindle. I don't know exactly where your chainrings are positioned with a 111mm spindle but maybe it's not 50.5mm and I think I remember reading a post where you mentioned the chain line was biased towards the larger cogs. I am going to call FSA tomorrow to see if they can tell me more about the adapter clamp.

  6. #6
    Gear Combo Guru Chris_W's Avatar
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    We have the FSA Gossamer crankset on our Co-motion Speedster. It came with the FSA tandem FD clamp and Ultegra braze-on FD. When I finally settled on using a quad crankset (24-32-42-53), the extra inner chainring fit on fine, but my main issue was that the FD wouldn't move in far enough, even with the limit screw backed out all the way, to shift it to the smallest ring (shifting being done with a bar-end shifter). I therefore tried switching the FD with one I had on a single bike, which was a clamp-on Ultegra triple. With both the limit screws backed out all the way, we can now just shift into the big ring and the small ring, but neither of those shifts is smooth. I improved the shifting to the biggest ring by switching the FSA chainring to a Ultegra 6600 chainring, which seems to be a bit stiffer and has better shifting ramps, and so picks up the chain better.

    Therefore, I would say that to make shifting easier with this crankset, using the FSA tandem FD mount is advisable because it moves the FD out a bit further. It is just possible to make it work with a standard clamp or clamp-on FD, but if you have the choice then just get the right thing for the job.

  7. #7
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnbrown View Post
    . I don't know exactly where your chainrings are positioned with a 111mm spindle but maybe it's not 50.5mm and I think I remember reading a post where you mentioned the chain line was biased towards the larger cogs. I am going to call FSA tomorrow to see if they can tell me more about the adapter clamp.
    Interesting. I didn't realize that FSA had decided to offer their own branded version of the far-out FD clamp.

    Anyway, to your question... ~50mm. You may also recall that we're running daVinci cranks and Phil Wood square taper spindles which allows me to off-set the rear spindle to the right side of the bike so that the chain line can be tweaked a bit. The Campy FD is pretty much at its limit but allows for a clean 53x11 run with no chatter.

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    Mostly I am tyring to figure out if I should order a clamp on or braze on FD.
    It seems like the clamp on may not reach out far enough.
    So I think I have my answer.
    When I compare the Record Ti triple to the comp triple I am not sure what the difference is.
    It looks like the Ti refers to the cage material (it looks dull instead of shiny) and therfore less likely to rust?
    Also the shape of the cage looks to be different. The weights are pretty much the same.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnbrown View Post
    Mostly I am tyring to figure out if I should order a clamp on or braze on FD.
    It seems like the clamp on may not reach out far enough.
    So I think I have my answer.
    When I compare the Record Ti triple to the comp triple I am not sure what the difference is.
    It looks like the Ti refers to the cage material (it looks dull instead of shiny) and therfore less likely to rust?
    Also the shape of the cage looks to be different. The weights are pretty much the same.
    I think the Ti is only the bolts. The Comp has a steel cage.

  10. #10
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmac View Post
    I think the Ti is only the bolts.
    True statement. The dull bronze finish on the cage is the same EPS surface treatment Campy used on its chain rings and cassette cogs.

    There's not a lot of true differences in FD cages so long as you're comparing triples to triples, doubles to doubles, etc... aside from aesthetics and perhaps weight. It's a brute force instrument and almost all of them are stretched to their capacity limits by tandems that use wide-range chain rings.

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