Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 22 of 22
  1. #1
    Junior Member Sabertooth12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    NE Georgia
    My Bikes
    Trek Madone with Sram Red, Trek Fuel with Sram XX, Trek Soho, Co-Motion Supremo tandem
    Posts
    8
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Wheels - what hubs and rims?

    If you were building a set of really nice set of non-disc wheels, what would you use? My favorite hubs are White Industry and maybe Velocity Fusion or Dyad rims. FYI, our team is approximately 280 lbs.

    Thanks
    Joey

  2. #2
    Tandem Vincitur Ritterview's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Northern California
    My Bikes
    BMC Pro Machine SLC01, Specialized Globe, Burley Rock 'N Roll tandem, Calfee Dragonfly tandem.
    Posts
    3,222
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well, you might want to look at this recent thread, which was both informative and lively:

    lightweight wheels

    Jason at Fairwheel has done a road hub review, which is worth perusing. It is for road hubs, so it pertains to 100 mm front tandem hubs, but not directly to 145 mm OLD tandem rears, save for what can be extrapolated from the reviews of the road offerings of tandem suppliers such as White Industries, DT Swiss and Chris King.

  3. #3
    Dharma Dog lhbernhardt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Vancouver, Canada
    My Bikes
    Rodriguez Shiftless street fixie with S&S couplers, Kuwahara tandem, Trek carbon, Dolan track
    Posts
    2,065
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's probably worth noting that Shimano still builds its hubs with the old-style cup-and-cone bearings instead of with cartridge bearings. I think bearing cartridges are a misplaced technology for bicycle hubs because they are designed for use in machines where the load is going to be pretty much up and down. A bicycle wheel, on the other hand, takes significant side loads (what the cups and cones are good at addressing) each time you rock the bike on a climb (I try not to do this). I think this explains why I go thru two or three sets of bearing cartridges in each winter of commuting in Vancouver, while the traditional bearings survive for years.

    Anyway, just something to think about when buying your hubs. Probably not an issue if you are only going to be riding on sunny days.

    L.

  4. #4
    Senior Member WebsterBikeMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Just outside Kitchener, Ontario
    My Bikes
    Nishiki Continental, Bilenky custom travel tinker, home built winter bike based on Nashbar cross frrame
    Posts
    622
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sabertooth12 View Post
    If you were building a set of really nice set of non-disc wheels, what would you use? My favorite hubs are White Industry and maybe Velocity Fusion or Dyad rims. FYI, our team is approximately 280 lbs.

    Thanks
    Joey
    I'd have to start off by defining "really nice".

    You gave your team weight, which is a start, but there's a tradeoff between weight, cost, and durability. There are certainly choices out there that everyone would agree are bad, but the best choice really does depend on the application. Local go-fast rides? Long distance, loaded touring? Racing?

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    My Bikes
    Co-Motion tandem, Serotta, and Specialized mt. bike
    Posts
    345
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If you have 145 mm rear drop out spacing take a look at Co-Motion's wheels. I recently bought a second rear wheel for my Mocha with a Hugi hub and Aeroheat rim. The wheel was less expensive than buying the parts and having my LBS build the wheel.

  6. #6
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    7,152
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sabertooth12 View Post
    If you were building a set of really nice set of non-disc wheels, what would you use?
    If you're running narrow tires (23mm - 28mm) White Ind w/Fusion or Deep-V. I'm only partial to Deep-Vs because the 30mm rims are very easy to build up and they look a bit more proportial to the overall size of a tandem. We've easily put over 30k miles on White Ind / Deep-Vs which is what we're currently running on both of our road tandems. The White Ind / Fusion saves 80g over a set of Deep-Vs and the ride characteristics are almost indistinguishable.

    If you're running 28mm or wider, the Dyad laced to the White Ind. hubs is hard to beat.

    But, that's just what I'd use.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    787
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have White Industries Mi5 on front and Mi6 on the back. I used the Mi6 in case I wanted to add a rear disk brake at some point.
    You could use the Daisy on the back and save a little weight. WI are very nice hubs and not terribly expensive. Rims are Velocity Fusion 32 hole. I used Sapim CX Ray spokes which save a small amount amount of weight and make the wheel more aero. Deep Vs are nice from a strength standpoint but add some weight, maybe more aero but I am not sure you gain much aerodynamics going from 25 to 30mm.

  8. #8
    Junior Member Sabertooth12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    NE Georgia
    My Bikes
    Trek Madone with Sram Red, Trek Fuel with Sram XX, Trek Soho, Co-Motion Supremo tandem
    Posts
    8
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by WebsterBikeMan View Post
    I'd have to start off by defining "really nice".

    You gave your team weight, which is a start, but there's a tradeoff between weight, cost, and durability. There are certainly choices out there that everyone would agree are bad, but the best choice really does depend on the application. Local go-fast rides? Long distance, loaded touring? Racing?

    Local go-fast rides and long distance would be the purpose of the wheels.

    Joey

  9. #9
    Junior Member Sabertooth12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    NE Georgia
    My Bikes
    Trek Madone with Sram Red, Trek Fuel with Sram XX, Trek Soho, Co-Motion Supremo tandem
    Posts
    8
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jnbrown View Post
    I have White Industries Mi5 on front and Mi6 on the back. I used the Mi6 in case I wanted to add a rear disk brake at some point.
    You could use the Daisy on the back and save a little weight. WI are very nice hubs and not terribly expensive. Rims are Velocity Fusion 32 hole. I used Sapim CX Ray spokes which save a small amount amount of weight and make the wheel more aero. Deep Vs are nice from a strength standpoint but add some weight, maybe more aero but I am not sure you gain much aerodynamics going from 25 to 30mm.

    How much does your wheelset weigh? Any problems or regrets building with 32 hole rims versus 36?

    Thanks,

    Joey

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    787
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sabertooth12 View Post
    How much does your wheelset weigh? Any problems or regrets building with 32 hole rims versus 36?

    Thanks,

    Joey
    Wheel weight 1770g without quick releases.
    No difference between 32 and 36 that I can tell.
    Team weight is 250lbs.

  11. #11
    Junior Member Sabertooth12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    NE Georgia
    My Bikes
    Trek Madone with Sram Red, Trek Fuel with Sram XX, Trek Soho, Co-Motion Supremo tandem
    Posts
    8
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jnbrown View Post
    Wheel weight 1770g without quick releases.
    No difference between 32 and 36 that I can tell.
    Team weight is 250lbs.
    Thanks for information. I am going to stick with 36 hole rims since we are closer to 300 than 250. The Sapim CX Ray spokes are very nice (expensive), but worth it to me. Now, just trying to decide between the Dyad and Fusion rims.

    Thanks,
    Joey

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    787
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yes the CX Rays are expensive. When I first got them I could not believe how light one spoke felt.
    I had never used them before so I figured since this was going to be our ultimate and probably last tandem I decided to splurge.
    The cost of the spokes relative to the whole bike wasn't that significant anyway.
    You could save some money by just using them on the front wheel. The aero benefits are not as great on the rear wheel.
    If you are building the wheels yourself you will need a tool to hold the flat part of the spoke to keep it from twisting when you are tensioning them.
    There is one you can buy but I just made my own by cutting a slot in a hunk of plastic.
    The Dyad rims are good if you are going to use wide tires like 28mm or wider. The Fusions are deeper and more aero but suited for tires 28mm and narrower.

  13. #13
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    7,152
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jnbrown View Post
    Wheel weight 1770g without quick releases.
    No difference between 32 and 36 that I can tell.
    Team weight is 250lbs.
    How many miles do you have on those wheels at this point?

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    787
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek View Post
    How many miles do you have on those wheels at this point?
    Not much maybe 250 miles. They sure feel robust enough though, nothing to indicate they will have problems with more miles.

  15. #15
    Junior Member Sabertooth12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    NE Georgia
    My Bikes
    Trek Madone with Sram Red, Trek Fuel with Sram XX, Trek Soho, Co-Motion Supremo tandem
    Posts
    8
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jnbrown View Post
    Yes the CX Rays are expensive. When I first got them I could not believe how light one spoke felt.
    I had never used them before so I figured since this was going to be our ultimate and probably last tandem I decided to splurge.
    The cost of the spokes relative to the whole bike wasn't that significant anyway.
    You could save some money by just using them on the front wheel. The aero benefits are not as great on the rear wheel.
    If you are building the wheels yourself you will need a tool to hold the flat part of the spoke to keep it from twisting when you are tensioning them.
    There is one you can buy but I just made my own by cutting a slot in a hunk of plastic.
    The Dyad rims are good if you are going to use wide tires like 28mm or wider. The Fusions are deeper and more aero but suited for tires 28mm and narrower.

    I am leaning toward the Fusion rims. They seem like a good compromise and I don't plan on ever using anything wider than a 28mm tire. In fact, most of time I will opt for a 25mm tire. Much better tire selection in the 25 range.

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    202
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Great thread. Keep the discussion coming, because I'm in the same boat!

    By the way, when you folks quote weight, are you talking both riders + bike, or just riders?

  17. #17
    Senior Member WebsterBikeMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Just outside Kitchener, Ontario
    My Bikes
    Nishiki Continental, Bilenky custom travel tinker, home built winter bike based on Nashbar cross frrame
    Posts
    622
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by JSNYC View Post
    Great thread. Keep the discussion coming, because I'm in the same boat!

    By the way, when you folks quote weight, are you talking both riders + bike, or just riders?
    Team weight, as commonly quoted includes neither bike nor gear. And it might not even include the riders' shoes

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    202
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Interesting. I presume for determining wheel build, however, you'd include rider + bike total weight in determining specs (spoke tension, rim selection, etc)?

  19. #19
    Senior Member WebsterBikeMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Just outside Kitchener, Ontario
    My Bikes
    Nishiki Continental, Bilenky custom travel tinker, home built winter bike based on Nashbar cross frrame
    Posts
    622
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by JSNYC View Post
    Interesting. I presume for determining wheel build, however, you'd include rider + bike total weight in determining specs (spoke tension, rim selection, etc)?
    And intended use. If you're planning to use it for loaded touring, you get to add not only the weight of the bike but also the weight of the gear. But, realize that the total weight of riders, bike and minimal gear (assuming we're not talking loaded touring, but need at least a few water bottles, and a pound or two for the minimal tools, tubes, etc), is nearly always over 300 pounds, and often over 350 pounds. 95% of all tandem bikes, I'd wager, fall within a range of 10 pounds above or below the mean. This is 3% or less. Given the margin of error on these things, you can pretty much build for an "average" weight bike (somewhere in the mid to upper 30s?) and that 3% won't matter. Team weights varying by 50 pounds have a more significant impact.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    My Bikes
    Serotta Legend Ti, Santa Cruz Heckler, Santana Visa TAndem
    Posts
    198
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I recently built a set of wheels for my '93 Santana Visa. I converted to 9 speed, utilizing a Shimano hub (cone and bearings), which required the dropout spacing to be cold-set to 145 mm. I reused the stock front Suzue sealed bearing hub with new Phil bearings. They are laced X4 with 40 spokes, and Dyad rims. I was quite surprised that their weight is very close to the old wheels with their old Wolber rear and Mavic front box section rims. I am sure that any aerodynamic advantage is so small as to be unmeasurable, but they look cool, feel fast, and provide a much needed component upgrade.
    The Dyads will not accomidate less then 28 mm tires-I use 28 mm Gatorskins, see no reason for us to go narrower. We weigh about 355 lbs all up and use the bike for mostly local club rides. We only have about 500 miles on them, but they have stayed perfectly true so far.

  21. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Mid Michigan
    Posts
    286
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Just ordered a set of wheels from Joe Young in Texas to replace failed Rolf's:
    http://www.youngwheels.com/
    Settled on the following per Joe's advice for 330-350 pound team weight not including bike, and for non-loaded touring:
    Phil Wood Tandem part number CTF 600 front 100 mm 36 hole silver
    Phil Wood Tandem part number CDS 748 rear 145 mm 40 hole for cassette- 6 bolt disc silver
    Velocity Fusion 36/40 hole silver
    DT Competition 2.0X1.8X2.0 double butted

    Can't wait to try them out.

  22. #22
    Junior Member Sabertooth12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    NE Georgia
    My Bikes
    Trek Madone with Sram Red, Trek Fuel with Sram XX, Trek Soho, Co-Motion Supremo tandem
    Posts
    8
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Anybody have need for some Dyad rims? I bought them and have now changed my mind. I am going with Fusion rims instead. The Dyads are black with machined sidewalls and are 36 hole. $80 shipped in the lower 48.

    Joey

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •