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Tandem Cycling A bicycle built for two. Want to find out more about this wonderful world of tandems? Check out this forum to talk with other tandem enthusiasts. Captains and stokers welcome!

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Old 04-07-10, 07:54 PM   #1
Sabertooth12
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Wheels - what hubs and rims?

If you were building a set of really nice set of non-disc wheels, what would you use? My favorite hubs are White Industry and maybe Velocity Fusion or Dyad rims. FYI, our team is approximately 280 lbs.

Thanks
Joey
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Old 04-07-10, 09:34 PM   #2
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Well, you might want to look at this recent thread, which was both informative and lively:

lightweight wheels

Jason at Fairwheel has done a road hub review, which is worth perusing. It is for road hubs, so it pertains to 100 mm front tandem hubs, but not directly to 145 mm OLD tandem rears, save for what can be extrapolated from the reviews of the road offerings of tandem suppliers such as White Industries, DT Swiss and Chris King.
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Old 04-08-10, 01:17 AM   #3
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It's probably worth noting that Shimano still builds its hubs with the old-style cup-and-cone bearings instead of with cartridge bearings. I think bearing cartridges are a misplaced technology for bicycle hubs because they are designed for use in machines where the load is going to be pretty much up and down. A bicycle wheel, on the other hand, takes significant side loads (what the cups and cones are good at addressing) each time you rock the bike on a climb (I try not to do this). I think this explains why I go thru two or three sets of bearing cartridges in each winter of commuting in Vancouver, while the traditional bearings survive for years.

Anyway, just something to think about when buying your hubs. Probably not an issue if you are only going to be riding on sunny days.

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Old 04-08-10, 06:45 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Sabertooth12 View Post
If you were building a set of really nice set of non-disc wheels, what would you use? My favorite hubs are White Industry and maybe Velocity Fusion or Dyad rims. FYI, our team is approximately 280 lbs.

Thanks
Joey
I'd have to start off by defining "really nice".

You gave your team weight, which is a start, but there's a tradeoff between weight, cost, and durability. There are certainly choices out there that everyone would agree are bad, but the best choice really does depend on the application. Local go-fast rides? Long distance, loaded touring? Racing?
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Old 04-08-10, 07:03 AM   #5
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If you have 145 mm rear drop out spacing take a look at Co-Motion's wheels. I recently bought a second rear wheel for my Mocha with a Hugi hub and Aeroheat rim. The wheel was less expensive than buying the parts and having my LBS build the wheel.
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Old 04-08-10, 07:27 AM   #6
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If you were building a set of really nice set of non-disc wheels, what would you use?
If you're running narrow tires (23mm - 28mm) White Ind w/Fusion or Deep-V. I'm only partial to Deep-Vs because the 30mm rims are very easy to build up and they look a bit more proportial to the overall size of a tandem. We've easily put over 30k miles on White Ind / Deep-Vs which is what we're currently running on both of our road tandems. The White Ind / Fusion saves 80g over a set of Deep-Vs and the ride characteristics are almost indistinguishable.

If you're running 28mm or wider, the Dyad laced to the White Ind. hubs is hard to beat.

But, that's just what I'd use.
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Old 04-08-10, 10:02 AM   #7
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I have White Industries Mi5 on front and Mi6 on the back. I used the Mi6 in case I wanted to add a rear disk brake at some point.
You could use the Daisy on the back and save a little weight. WI are very nice hubs and not terribly expensive. Rims are Velocity Fusion 32 hole. I used Sapim CX Ray spokes which save a small amount amount of weight and make the wheel more aero. Deep Vs are nice from a strength standpoint but add some weight, maybe more aero but I am not sure you gain much aerodynamics going from 25 to 30mm.
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Old 04-09-10, 04:16 PM   #8
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I'd have to start off by defining "really nice".

You gave your team weight, which is a start, but there's a tradeoff between weight, cost, and durability. There are certainly choices out there that everyone would agree are bad, but the best choice really does depend on the application. Local go-fast rides? Long distance, loaded touring? Racing?

Local go-fast rides and long distance would be the purpose of the wheels.

Joey
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Old 04-09-10, 04:23 PM   #9
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I have White Industries Mi5 on front and Mi6 on the back. I used the Mi6 in case I wanted to add a rear disk brake at some point.
You could use the Daisy on the back and save a little weight. WI are very nice hubs and not terribly expensive. Rims are Velocity Fusion 32 hole. I used Sapim CX Ray spokes which save a small amount amount of weight and make the wheel more aero. Deep Vs are nice from a strength standpoint but add some weight, maybe more aero but I am not sure you gain much aerodynamics going from 25 to 30mm.

How much does your wheelset weigh? Any problems or regrets building with 32 hole rims versus 36?

Thanks,

Joey
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Old 04-09-10, 10:08 PM   #10
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How much does your wheelset weigh? Any problems or regrets building with 32 hole rims versus 36?

Thanks,

Joey
Wheel weight 1770g without quick releases.
No difference between 32 and 36 that I can tell.
Team weight is 250lbs.
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Old 04-10-10, 06:30 AM   #11
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Wheel weight 1770g without quick releases.
No difference between 32 and 36 that I can tell.
Team weight is 250lbs.
Thanks for information. I am going to stick with 36 hole rims since we are closer to 300 than 250. The Sapim CX Ray spokes are very nice (expensive), but worth it to me. Now, just trying to decide between the Dyad and Fusion rims.

Thanks,
Joey
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Old 04-10-10, 10:40 AM   #12
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Yes the CX Rays are expensive. When I first got them I could not believe how light one spoke felt.
I had never used them before so I figured since this was going to be our ultimate and probably last tandem I decided to splurge.
The cost of the spokes relative to the whole bike wasn't that significant anyway.
You could save some money by just using them on the front wheel. The aero benefits are not as great on the rear wheel.
If you are building the wheels yourself you will need a tool to hold the flat part of the spoke to keep it from twisting when you are tensioning them.
There is one you can buy but I just made my own by cutting a slot in a hunk of plastic.
The Dyad rims are good if you are going to use wide tires like 28mm or wider. The Fusions are deeper and more aero but suited for tires 28mm and narrower.
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Old 04-10-10, 04:11 PM   #13
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Wheel weight 1770g without quick releases.
No difference between 32 and 36 that I can tell.
Team weight is 250lbs.
How many miles do you have on those wheels at this point?
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Old 04-10-10, 06:08 PM   #14
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How many miles do you have on those wheels at this point?
Not much maybe 250 miles. They sure feel robust enough though, nothing to indicate they will have problems with more miles.
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Old 04-10-10, 10:04 PM   #15
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Yes the CX Rays are expensive. When I first got them I could not believe how light one spoke felt.
I had never used them before so I figured since this was going to be our ultimate and probably last tandem I decided to splurge.
The cost of the spokes relative to the whole bike wasn't that significant anyway.
You could save some money by just using them on the front wheel. The aero benefits are not as great on the rear wheel.
If you are building the wheels yourself you will need a tool to hold the flat part of the spoke to keep it from twisting when you are tensioning them.
There is one you can buy but I just made my own by cutting a slot in a hunk of plastic.
The Dyad rims are good if you are going to use wide tires like 28mm or wider. The Fusions are deeper and more aero but suited for tires 28mm and narrower.

I am leaning toward the Fusion rims. They seem like a good compromise and I don't plan on ever using anything wider than a 28mm tire. In fact, most of time I will opt for a 25mm tire. Much better tire selection in the 25 range.
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Old 04-19-10, 06:32 PM   #16
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Great thread. Keep the discussion coming, because I'm in the same boat!

By the way, when you folks quote weight, are you talking both riders + bike, or just riders?
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Old 04-20-10, 07:38 AM   #17
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Great thread. Keep the discussion coming, because I'm in the same boat!

By the way, when you folks quote weight, are you talking both riders + bike, or just riders?
Team weight, as commonly quoted includes neither bike nor gear. And it might not even include the riders' shoes
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Old 04-20-10, 07:50 AM   #18
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Interesting. I presume for determining wheel build, however, you'd include rider + bike total weight in determining specs (spoke tension, rim selection, etc)?
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Old 04-20-10, 07:58 AM   #19
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Interesting. I presume for determining wheel build, however, you'd include rider + bike total weight in determining specs (spoke tension, rim selection, etc)?
And intended use. If you're planning to use it for loaded touring, you get to add not only the weight of the bike but also the weight of the gear. But, realize that the total weight of riders, bike and minimal gear (assuming we're not talking loaded touring, but need at least a few water bottles, and a pound or two for the minimal tools, tubes, etc), is nearly always over 300 pounds, and often over 350 pounds. 95% of all tandem bikes, I'd wager, fall within a range of 10 pounds above or below the mean. This is 3% or less. Given the margin of error on these things, you can pretty much build for an "average" weight bike (somewhere in the mid to upper 30s?) and that 3% won't matter. Team weights varying by 50 pounds have a more significant impact.
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Old 04-20-10, 08:43 AM   #20
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I recently built a set of wheels for my '93 Santana Visa. I converted to 9 speed, utilizing a Shimano hub (cone and bearings), which required the dropout spacing to be cold-set to 145 mm. I reused the stock front Suzue sealed bearing hub with new Phil bearings. They are laced X4 with 40 spokes, and Dyad rims. I was quite surprised that their weight is very close to the old wheels with their old Wolber rear and Mavic front box section rims. I am sure that any aerodynamic advantage is so small as to be unmeasurable, but they look cool, feel fast, and provide a much needed component upgrade.
The Dyads will not accomidate less then 28 mm tires-I use 28 mm Gatorskins, see no reason for us to go narrower. We weigh about 355 lbs all up and use the bike for mostly local club rides. We only have about 500 miles on them, but they have stayed perfectly true so far.
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Old 04-20-10, 09:48 PM   #21
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Just ordered a set of wheels from Joe Young in Texas to replace failed Rolf's:
http://www.youngwheels.com/
Settled on the following per Joe's advice for 330-350 pound team weight not including bike, and for non-loaded touring:
Phil Wood Tandem part number CTF 600 front 100 mm 36 hole silver
Phil Wood Tandem part number CDS 748 rear 145 mm 40 hole for cassette- 6 bolt disc silver
Velocity Fusion 36/40 hole silver
DT Competition 2.0X1.8X2.0 double butted

Can't wait to try them out.
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Old 04-21-10, 07:37 PM   #22
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Anybody have need for some Dyad rims? I bought them and have now changed my mind. I am going with Fusion rims instead. The Dyads are black with machined sidewalls and are 36 hole. $80 shipped in the lower 48.

Joey
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