Composite Arts & Science Inc
 

Anyone know anything about the composite arts and science bikes.

There is one for sale on craigslist and it looks interesting but not able to really find anything about the company or the bikes online.

Craigslist link: http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb...731045419.html

i was hoping someone else would post with some info. I would think that has to be a one off deal, or at least a very limited production deal.

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...9&d=1273552910

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Composite Arts and Science (CAS), make a wild-looking carbon-fiber tandem (Pleasant View, UT - USA)

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http://tandem-fahren.de/Mitglieder/C.../builders.html

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Composite Arts and Science (CAS) (Status Unknown / Website inop)

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http://thetandemlink.com/tandems.html


Apparently they were a carbon fiber specialty shop based in Pleasant View, UT and are now defunct.


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I would bet that the frame is very whippy. I'm also thinking that 27 lb weight estimate is rather optimistic. Perhaps both.

But it looks cool in a retro modern sort of way.

I would be very wary of a carbon frame of dubious parentage. There are too many problems that can be lurking inside (Remember the American Airlines Airbus that lost its vertical tail after departing JFK a few weeks after 9/11?)! One of our local club members was made into a quadrapalegic and a few months later died from complications, when his high end (well known and respected brand) carbon single broke at the junction of the top and head tubes. This occurred while moving along at a good pace on a smooth level road, without warning. Witnesses said that he apparently struck his chin on the stem as he went down. The manufacturer tried to blame the local bike shop for supposedly over tightening the water bottle bolts on the down tube...total crap! This is still being litigated, as far as I know, and nothing definitive has come out as far as cause, but I would bet that there were voids in the layup or perhaps it was not done to the proper number of plies. And this is from a company that is STILL in business and answerable. I would not risk my life on an orphan frame! I have also seen what can happen to a carbon wheelset that has been chipped or cracked.
I have no doubt that some of the larger companies making carbon frames have the technology to have proper quality control, but since this unfortunate incident, I have developed a basic distrust of all things carbon.

CAS built some radical looking tandems and singles. However they were not light.
Seen lots of photos but never one on the road.

As for c/f failures here is our actual experience:
We currently have well over 25,000 miles on our c/f Zona tandem. Bob Davis is not a 'production' builder, but built each bike (all of them custom) by himself in his shop. He is a retired aerospace guy and worked on the space shuttle.
Can carbon fail? Sure . . . any material can fatigue/fail.
Have broken a steel tandem frame (once at 50,000 miles, and again at 56,000 miles) and one steel tandem fork after 15,000 miles . . .
Just our input.
Pedalon TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem


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Believe it not, the principle behind CAS was granted a patent for his tandem frame back 1993: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5215322.pdf

CAS first came to my attention about 12 years ago when I saw their first ZXT tandem. CAS / Mark Enders may have built a handful of the frames, as I've seen two or three different ones in photos over the years. The ZXT frames (singles and tandems) seem to be a variation on Brent Trimble's composite 'cross-frame' design of the late 80's.

It would be a great score for a collector or tandem-specialty dealer looking for an example of this short-lived, but very early composite tandem.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=150421

About how much do you guess that this would this go for?


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$4,000 is what he is asking.

Lot of money for essentially a museum piece. $4000 buys a nice aluminum tandem with omdern components that is likely just about as light, has a better ride, and comes with a warranty.

Guess it comes down down to how much one values the wow factor.

I think that for the novelty factor, wooden or bamboo tandems have more of a wow factor than this dated CAS.

Carbon fiber has since been developed into almost a high art form since the early days. The CAS would probably look more fascinating to people who haven't seen any of the more recent tandem designs.


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CAS is one guy, Mark Enders. I worked with Mark for over 10 years at an airbag company here in Utah, and our kids are in the same schools/soccer teams. Before that he worked for the manufacturer of the space shuttle solid rocket motors, hence the composites experience. He also co-founded a twice per week lunchtime road crit at the airbag company that's been going for about 16 years with an average of ~25 riders from all around the area. That's where I learned road racing. It's now a 5 times per week lunch ride, 3 on roadbikes, 2 on mtbs. Wish I still worked there just for that benefit.

He and a coworker rode the tandem on the lunch crit for 3 or 4 years. They always were in it except for steep hill sections. If they attacked from the rear on a tailwind-slightly downhill section of the course, it was a heinous effort to catch their draft. Since then he has always ridden one of his CAS singles, very aero bikes compared to others in that little peleton.

Mark lent me one of his custom tandems when my wife and I were just starting to look for a tandem. I'm guessing the bike was ~36 lbs. The wound-up fork worked well but was not attractive and the components were older (bike was a few years old). At the time I had lots of road miles but didn't know a thing about tandems and didn't appreciate the experience. We went on a 20 mile spin, at the time I had a lot of legs and my wife was a rookie. We started up a short hill and the speed bogged so I stood and went 100% full throttle. ZERO FRAME FLEX! All my power went to the wheels, ride quality and handling were fine. Now with >6k tandem miles on 2 bikes I'm still not very experienced, but our steel santana visa and aluminum trek t2000 are wet noodles compared to the CAS tandem.

Just sharing an interesting experience in the saddle.

There is still at least one out there on the road. I saw it being ridden two weeks ago while I was running errands near the Silver Creek area of Park City, UT. Easily identified by their unique look. I actually was considering purchasing a frame about 8 years ago. Stiff yet compliant were two selling points. IIRC the CAS website had a few examples that were built up sub 30 lbs.

Good morning all, I know this is an old thread, but I believe I may have bought the above mentioned CAS tandem late last year from a gentleman in the Heber, UT area.

FWIW! I only paid $750 for it, I've had it gone over by a local bike repairman and he says its GTG, it just needs some new tires and most likely tubes.

I don't know how to post pictures yet, but I will if there is any interest.

Have a great week!

I'd be keen to see some pics of it back on the road. Sounds like you scored a bargain

Sorry, it looks like I can't post pictures until I have 10 posts... I'll work in that ;)

Are you going to the "advanced" editor screen, and clicking on the paper clip icon? http://www.bikeforums.net/images/editor/attach.gif

Ha Ha!
I tried to quote you and it said I couldn't post links... I didn't realize you had one in your reply.

I will try the paper clip.

Thank you!

Here goes!

Here are a few more pictures, I'm happy to take others if any of you have a question.

Here are a few more.

I like it. It looks like a wonderful bike, and a real steal for $750.

Are those hydraulic brakes? Cool!!!

And the no-splice chain :) I could imagine it being converted to Gates Carbon front and rear (with a Rohloff Hub)

Happy so far!

Yes, Magura hydraulic brakes, They work well, no leaks or anything, My only gripe is I have to lower the tire pressure to remove the front tire to put the bike on the bike rack, Even with 700x28.

I'm not familiar with the Gates Carbon F&R, I will need to look into that.

I also think I need to replace the rear derailleur, It doesn't seem to want to let the chain get onto the smallest cog, Almost like the inner spring isn't strong enough, Its older Shimano Deor goods, But the cable could possibly need to be lubed better or more?!?

The problem with the belt drives is getting them into the rear triangle. Your bike wouldn't have that issue. But, they also don't shift, requiring an IGH (which are often heavy).

A lot of derailleurs have troubles dropping down to the small rear sprocket. Perhaps a new derailleur would help. Also, perhaps lined and lubed cable housing (and possibly a Teflon coated cable).

Oh, also check the B-screw adjustment on the derailleur that the upper guide pulley is as close to the sprockets as possible without touching (with all gear combinations)

Success!
Our 26.2 mile Bike Tour went about as well as I could have hoped, our only issue was a slow leak in the rear tire between mile 25 and 26, I'm still awaiting photos from the race, so hopefully soon.
My goodness did this CA&S tandem fly! We were in the third wave at the start, but we were passing people up and down hill, coasting downhill and passing others that were pedaling was a nice change, I was a little concerned with the 1:45:00 timeframe to finish, even in the third wave we had an unofficial time of 1:32:xx, I thought I started my watch at the start line, but I must have missed... I didn't notice until a mile in, then I started it.
Now that the race is over, I'm going to look into a new rear derailleur and some coated/sleeved cables.
Once I get some race photos, I will post them up as well.