Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Tandem Cycling A bicycle built for two. Want to find out more about this wonderful world of tandems? Check out this forum to talk with other tandem enthusiasts. Captains and stokers welcome!

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-07-10, 05:51 AM   #1
mburchard
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rye Brook, NY
Bikes: Calfee Tetra Custom, Calfee Tetra Tandem, Habanero
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Lightning Crank Question

Swapping notes with Lightning about their cranks, but responses from them are terse. They seem to think setup with a double and Gates belt all on the right better than the more conventional setup with the Gates belt on the left. Assuming you are OK with a double, what are the pros/cons to running the timing belt on the same side as the rest of the drivetrain?
mburchard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-10, 06:31 AM   #2
TandemGeek
hors category
 
TandemGeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 7,208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Pretty much the same as same-side drive

Pro #1: Less wear and tear on the rear bottom bracket.
Pro #2: Ever so slight, somewhat more efficient transfer of power
Pro/Con: Eye catching look that draws attention
Con #1: You typically give up the triple / granny gear
Con #2: Over-shifts into the right side, rear timing ring/pulley can be ugly
Con #3: Right side pulley may need to go outboard (big ring position) due to it's size
TandemGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-10, 07:51 AM   #3
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem
Posts: 29,113
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TandemGeek View Post
Con #2: Over-shifts into the right side, rear timing ring/pulley can be ugly
Con #3: Right side pulley may need to go outboard (big ring position) due to it's size
With the Gates system, I'm thinking an overshift might equal a new belt. If you torqued the belt, or nicked it up, I'm not sure I'd keep riding with it.

As for No 3, fiting the Gates ring would seem to be rather problematic as you allude to. It's substantially wider than a conventional chainring. I'm thinking on many frames, if you put the timing ring on the inside, and moved the crank far enough right to clear the stays, you'd have a chain line issue.

__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

Last edited by merlinextraligh; 07-07-10 at 08:13 AM.
merlinextraligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-10, 07:53 AM   #4
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem
Posts: 29,113
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Mburchard,

If you don't mind saying, what price are they quoting you for both cranks?
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-10, 09:11 AM   #5
mburchard
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rye Brook, NY
Bikes: Calfee Tetra Custom, Calfee Tetra Tandem, Habanero
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
Mburchard,

If you don't mind saying, what price are they quoting you for both cranks?
Haven't asked yet. Want to figure out what I want, then will ask how much. Have Santana carbon cranks on DA Octalink BBs now, will also want to understand weight delta.
mburchard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-10, 10:05 AM   #6
Brad Bedell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 127
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'll have a tandem set of Lightning cranks in route. Fedex will deliver them Friday. I'll get total weights when they are here.
Brad Bedell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-10, 12:46 PM   #7
Ritterview
Tandem Vincitur
 
Ritterview's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern California
Bikes: BMC Pro Machine SLC01, Specialized Globe, Burley Rock 'N Roll tandem, Calfee Dragonfly tandem.
Posts: 3,317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
One of the nice things about Lightning is that you get to communicate with the owner of the company, and the inventor of the crank, Tim Brummer.

The sync side spyder on the Lightning crank doesn't create sufficient clearance for the wider Gates belt/ring, and thus needs to be reversed to clear the chainstay. It works fine, but doesn't look very good. Tim has told me that he will make a new spyder when he gets a CNC Machine.

This spyder problem is obviated by having all the rings on the drive side, and this I think is the origination for Tim's preference for the belt on the drive side. I think that if Lightning had a sync spyder that fit a Gates on the non-drive side, you'd not be hearing so much about having it on the drive side.
Ritterview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-10, 09:17 PM   #8
Ritterview
Tandem Vincitur
 
Ritterview's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern California
Bikes: BMC Pro Machine SLC01, Specialized Globe, Burley Rock 'N Roll tandem, Calfee Dragonfly tandem.
Posts: 3,317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This is the tandem Calfee exhibited at the Northwest Tandem Rally with a drive-side sync Lightning, only with a chain rather than belt.




Ritterview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-10, 08:37 AM   #9
mkane77g
Senior Member
 
mkane77g's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 696
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
This bike is awesome. Couldn't stay away from it at the ralley. A claimed 22lbs as it sits. I'm saving $$$$$.
mkane77g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-10, 10:18 AM   #10
Ritterview
Tandem Vincitur
 
Ritterview's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern California
Bikes: BMC Pro Machine SLC01, Specialized Globe, Burley Rock 'N Roll tandem, Calfee Dragonfly tandem.
Posts: 3,317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkane77g View Post
A claimed 22lbs as it sits.
Scale shots are very useful in this regard.

Ritterview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-10, 05:01 PM   #11
mkane77g
Senior Member
 
mkane77g's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 696
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Dripping with excitement. Replacing the rim brake with a disc seems likely in my neighborhood. Throw a Scrub rotor on there and the weight won't seem so bad, and will look very trick, along with the rest of the bike. It looks fast sitting there. N+1
mkane77g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-10, 04:17 AM   #12
mrfish
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: London, UK
Bikes: Trek T200 plus enough others to fill a large shed
Posts: 562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm not seeing an inner of the double chainrings on that Calfee. It looks like it just has a 50t ring and a wide ratio rear cassette. Are the pictures misleading, or is it set up for riding in Florida / the Netherlands only?
mrfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-10, 06:10 AM   #13
TandemGeek
hors category
 
TandemGeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 7,208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfish View Post
I'm not seeing an inner of the double chainrings on that Calfee. It looks like it just has a 50t ring and a wide ratio rear cassette. Are the pictures misleading, or is it set up for riding in Florida / the Netherlands only?
I saw the same thing but dismissed it under the heading of 'who really cares'. My guess was, it was left off to garner a few less grams for the "ooooh" factor of the bike show. In fact, I was surprised that the front derailleur was left on, even if only used as a chain guide to keep it from droping into and locking up the sync chain.

Last edited by TandemGeek; 07-20-10 at 09:10 AM.
TandemGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-10, 08:33 AM   #14
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem
Posts: 29,113
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Neat bike, and the weight is obviously impressive. But, IMHO, you've got to question the gearing tradeoff. To make up for the triple you're forgoing, they appear to be using an XX rear cassette that in addition to costing $328, give you the following spacing:

either 11,12,14, 16, 18, 20, 22, 25, 28, 32.

or 11, 12,14, 16, 18, 21, 24, 28, 32, 36.

Those are fairly big jumps.

If you need low gearing I'm thinking most teams would be better served with a triple, better spacing, better shifting, albeit at a bit of a weight cost.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-10, 08:42 AM   #15
mkane77g
Senior Member
 
mkane77g's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 696
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
It has an 11-36 with a compac crankset
mkane77g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-10, 08:48 AM   #16
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem
Posts: 29,113
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
^ which is going to give a very low gear and a wide range, but big jumps.

In spite of my post above, I'm intrigued by the setup for our use. We'd be fine with a 50/34, and an 11/23 in the back for 95% of our riding.

And for the other 5%, put on a larger rear cassette, and accept the spacing tradeoff.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-10, 01:50 PM   #17
Ritterview
Tandem Vincitur
 
Ritterview's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern California
Bikes: BMC Pro Machine SLC01, Specialized Globe, Burley Rock 'N Roll tandem, Calfee Dragonfly tandem.
Posts: 3,317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfish View Post
I'm not seeing an inner of the double chainrings on that Calfee. It looks like it just has a 50t ring and a wide ratio rear cassette. Are the pictures misleading, or is it set up for riding in Florida / the Netherlands only?
I emailed Mike Moore at Calfee to inquire about the missing inner ring. He sent me some more pics, and lo, there is an inner ring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike @ Calfee
Hi Ritterview,

We have a compact set-up with 2 rings (34/50) and then a pair of 34t timing rings. The visual symmetry of the rings is quite nice and might explain the errant diagnosis. It works swimmingly and I've already sold this exact configuration, on Dragonfly frames, no less than 4 times these last couple of months.

Here are some photos illustrating our drive-train. We also weighed the bike with 25c tires, among other "tandem-ready" specifications.




Ritterview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-10, 02:01 PM   #18
TandemGeek
hors category
 
TandemGeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 7,208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Pretty slick. I retract my earlier "who really cares".

That said, I'm not thrilled with the aesthetics of the out-board, same side drive, but that's just me.
TandemGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-10, 08:24 AM   #19
Brad Bedell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 127
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I swear I've typed this out. I must keep forgetting hit submit..

Mine arrived. 1091grams is the weight of everything but rings. It is a traditional setup with the Gates drive belt on the left and triple on the right.

With the roads around here, we're going to just run a double with a 38/53 or a 54 and an 11-28 rear. With 11-25 in the rear, we rarely put it in the middle ring. With the 11-28, I doubt we would except for our cadence drills we do.

+1 about talking with Tim at Lightning, there's no doubt that he's an engineer. Nice guy, knowledgeable and delivered exactly in his time frame promised. (1 month) Which isn't bad considering the Tandem setup is custom.
Brad Bedell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-10, 04:03 PM   #20
rhino919
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 103
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Alternative to Lightning?

Has anyone done something similar to the Lightning crank setup by using a triple crank for the stoker and a compact crank for the captain. The triple crank could be 52/38/36, and the compact crank would have just a 36t on the inside. The one issue with this is finding a 36t x 74mm chainring for the triple. I did find one made by Stronglight in France.

It seems that this would yield a better chainline since the cassette is already pushed out by 5mm or more with 145 spacing. Also, you could use a variety of different crank manufacturers.

One concern would be no granny gear, but we currently ride a 52/42/30 with an 11-28 cassette, and we rarely want to use the 30, so by going to a 38 we don't think we would have any issues.

If someone has tried this, can you post pictures?
rhino919 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-10, 08:31 AM   #21
swamptandem
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Florida
Bikes: not enough
Posts: 111
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
Scale shots are very useful in this regard.

Impressive weight. But you cannot ride a bike without pedals.
swamptandem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-10, 12:12 PM   #22
Ritterview
Tandem Vincitur
 
Ritterview's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern California
Bikes: BMC Pro Machine SLC01, Specialized Globe, Burley Rock 'N Roll tandem, Calfee Dragonfly tandem.
Posts: 3,317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamptandem View Post
Impressive weight. But you cannot ride a bike without pedals.
Well, its not my bike, so I won't be riding it anyway. But since pedal weight is so variable and individual, and the bike is often sold without pedals, comparative weights more often than not are sans pedals.
Ritterview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-10, 01:31 PM   #23
swamptandem
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Florida
Bikes: not enough
Posts: 111
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
Well, its not my bike, so I won't be riding it anyway. But since pedal weight is so variable and individual, and the bike is often sold without pedals, comparative weights more often than not are sans pedals.
I know, you're right. Just one of things :-)
swamptandem is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:03 PM.