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Tandem Cycling A bicycle built for two. Want to find out more about this wonderful world of tandems? Check out this forum to talk with other tandem enthusiasts. Captains and stokers welcome!

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Old 05-09-11, 05:13 AM   #26
swamptandem
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Originally Posted by oldacura View Post
I was given a "factory tour" by Dave - one of the Paketa founders. He lives (or lived) about 2 miles from me. About 2 years ago it was in a barn in Lafayette, Colorado. I think they may have since expanded to larger facilities. They basically just found a company that will extrude magnesium using custom dies, order the tubing, cut to length, cope the ends and weld in a jig. Really no different from aluminum or steel. Pretty neat to see low-volume manufacturing still surviving in the US.
I know they're moving to a new facility soon.

Nothing like a good old fashion hand built frame. You can feel the love JP puts into each bike he builds.
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Old 05-25-11, 05:33 AM   #27
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Heat issues in descents

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The 420s are great! I think the spoke count is 18 and 24. It's not the spoke count that makes these so strong and stiff. It's the 34mm deep aluminum rim. Also, the deep rim acts as a heat sink for descending. A lot of Paketa tandems (with 300 lb + teams) are using the AC 420s with great success.
Never thought of this idea - that deep rims are more effective heat sinks. Anyone got any more data on this - i would really like to believe that this is true - even anecdotal comments ok. Tandem wheel overheating = major worry of mine using rim brakes (no drum or disc brake on our racing Tandem - only Mafac canti brakes)

T
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Old 05-25-11, 06:07 AM   #28
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V2r and hills

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Hi, thanks! The other bike were singles. My wife and I are not big powerhouses. I'm 146lbs,and she is 106lbs. A good bike, wheels and tires really do help.

There was a rotation. But we were able to do a lion's share of the work. I guess it's a tandem thing.
I am seriously looking at the V2r and really like the right side timing and double set up. I wondered how you were getting on with the gearing and hills? We are probably a tad heavier 268lbs and currently ride a Rondinella (1970's vintage) which is a lot heavier (>20kg or >44lbs) and has limited gearing with a TA 38/48 double chainset and a 12-32 cassette. We can cope with 10% gradients for extended periods at 40-50 cadence, but much beyond this for longer than bursts of 2-300m at up to 15% can't be sustained - you end up going anaerobic and eventually succumb as the effort sucks the energy from your legs. Our only solution presently is to swap the front chianrings for a 40/28 set up and cope with the hills but spin out easily on the flat. I was hoping that a combination of lower gearing, more modern front chainset design with a wider gear spacing and lighter weight might just enable us to cope with the 2-3km "tricky" 14-16% stuff we see in the Alps, without resorting to a triple and without spinning out. Thoughts/experiences? Tony
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Old 05-25-11, 06:56 AM   #29
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Sweet ride.
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Old 05-25-11, 09:13 AM   #30
swamptandem
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Originally Posted by barkersoldbean View Post
I am seriously looking at the V2r and really like the right side timing and double set up. I wondered how you were getting on with the gearing and hills? We are probably a tad heavier 268lbs and currently ride a Rondinella (1970's vintage) which is a lot heavier (>20kg or >44lbs) and has limited gearing with a TA 38/48 double chainset and a 12-32 cassette. We can cope with 10% gradients for extended periods at 40-50 cadence, but much beyond this for longer than bursts of 2-300m at up to 15% can't be sustained - you end up going anaerobic and eventually succumb as the effort sucks the energy from your legs. Our only solution presently is to swap the front chianrings for a 40/28 set up and cope with the hills but spin out easily on the flat. I was hoping that a combination of lower gearing, more modern front chainset design with a wider gear spacing and lighter weight might just enable us to cope with the 2-3km "tricky" 14-16% stuff we see in the Alps, without resorting to a triple and without spinning out. Thoughts/experiences? Tony
We live in Jacksonville,Fl. No real hills yet. We do plan on going to north Georgia soon for some hill riding. I did do the math before we bought this bike. I don't see a problem with gearing. You can get all the way down to a 36t on the rear cassette these days.

If you have any questions about climbing on the V2r, call Dave at Paketa. He and his wife live in Colorado and ride their V2r in the mountains every day.

Also, if you're not sure about a double. You can always opt for the V2. The mag frame is fantastic!

Good luck!
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Old 05-25-11, 07:52 PM   #31
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Many thanks for the reply - i have put this question directly to Dave Walker and will wait for his response - you are right the V2 with a triple is the obvious compromise - i just really like the right side timing belt!
Tony
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Old 08-13-12, 09:34 PM   #32
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Fast tandems caught my eye.
Fastest tandem in the tandem field on this years Haystack Time Trial in Boulder CO was Greg and Lisa Mangus, 16.4mi course in 36:35 per the ACA results page. That's 26.8mph. The lead peloton of 7 tandems in LoToJa Classic 2011 finsihed the first 34 miles (of a 206 mile race) in 1:07 per the 2011 results page. That's a hair shy of 30.5 mph for a nearly flat 200 ft gain segment. Two teams went on to finish all 206 miles, 7,300 feet of climbing in under 10 hours. They averaged 21.5 for the final 45 miles and about 650 feet climbing.
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Old 08-14-12, 03:25 PM   #33
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Awesome bike!

Another thing I like about it is that while us guys were all serious and talking about wheels, weight, gearing, frame material and average speeds, the stoker put something pink and fuzzy under her seat. That puts our silly tech talk in perspective
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Old 09-10-12, 10:29 PM   #34
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The V2r gearing typically uses an 11-36 cassette, 38 or 39 to 52 or 53 from rings. Sufficient for just about any climb up to 15% if short. For some teams in the thread maybe enough for even long climbs. Gates has mentioned coming out with a compact 110bcd sprocket which would be lovely to offer more range of gearing for the V2r, but no confirmation on that rumor yet.
For the post asking about climbing, for us, upgrading from the V2 to the V2r improved our climb rates and adds at least 5% to our efficiency.
In terms of rim heat dissipation question above, we also ride in the Rockies and are about 190# buck naked. Last year we did all the top 10 highest paved passes in north america, all here in CO on our "old" Paketa V2 with caliper brakes. Little if any heat problems with the 34mm deep rims. In fact we have temperature reading "plates" to mark the high temp and never exceeded 200 degrees. There is another post somewhere in the forum from about a year ago with more details on this topic and the temp plates by palmer wahl. I believe that is part of a discussion on the forum about the merits of disk versus rim brakes, roughly concluding either is a fine option if done properly, and either can fail if not done correctly. Although I believe that posting also noted that heavier teams or touring weights certainly make the braking harder to solve.
FYI we are now on 30mm front and 38mm rear kinlin rims for similar heat dissipation reasons.
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Old 09-11-12, 06:23 AM   #35
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The V2r gearing typically uses an 11-36 cassette, 38 or 39 to 52 or 53 from rings. Sufficient for just about any climb up to 15% if short. For some teams in the thread maybe enough for even long climbs. Gates has mentioned coming out with a compact 110bcd sprocket which would be lovely to offer more range of gearing for the V2r, but no confirmation on that rumor yet.
For the post asking about climbing, for us, upgrading from the V2 to the V2r improved our climb rates and adds at least 5% to our efficiency.
In terms of rim heat dissipation question above, we also ride in the Rockies and are about 190# buck naked. Last year we did all the top 10 highest paved passes in north america, all here in CO on our "old" Paketa V2 with caliper brakes. Little if any heat problems with the 34mm deep rims. In fact we have temperature reading "plates" to mark the high temp and never exceeded 200 degrees. There is another post somewhere in the forum from about a year ago with more details on this topic and the temp plates by palmer wahl. I believe that is part of a discussion on the forum about the merits of disk versus rim brakes, roughly concluding either is a fine option if done properly, and either can fail if not done correctly. Although I believe that posting also noted that heavier teams or touring weights certainly make the braking harder to solve.
FYI we are now on 30mm front and 38mm rear kinlin rims for similar heat dissipation reasons.
I am curious how you arrived at the 5% number. Do you have power meters or do you ride known climbs 5% faster?
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Old 09-11-12, 09:04 AM   #36
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we also ride in the Rockies and are about 190# buck naked.
Wait, what? The two of you weigh in at 95lbs each?

Last edited by CaptainHaddock; 09-11-12 at 09:13 AM. Reason: simple math...
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Old 09-12-12, 12:31 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by barkersoldbean View Post
I am seriously looking at the V2r and really like the right side timing and double set up. I wondered how you were getting on with the gearing and hills? We are probably a tad heavier 268lbs and currently ride a Rondinella (1970's vintage) which is a lot heavier (>20kg or >44lbs) and has limited gearing with a TA 38/48 double chainset and a 12-32 cassette. We can cope with 10% gradients for extended periods at 40-50 cadence, but much beyond this for longer than bursts of 2-300m at up to 15% can't be sustained - you end up going anaerobic and eventually succumb as the effort sucks the energy from your legs. Our only solution presently is to swap the front chianrings for a 40/28 set up and cope with the hills but spin out easily on the flat. I was hoping that a combination of lower gearing, more modern front chainset design with a wider gear spacing and lighter weight might just enable us to cope with the 2-3km "tricky" 14-16% stuff we see in the Alps, without resorting to a triple and without spinning out. Thoughts/experiences? Tony
How about a compact 50/34 crankset and using a timing chain rather than a belt on the V2R?
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Old 09-12-12, 05:27 AM   #38
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we also ride in the Rockies and are about 190# buck naked.
Wait, what? The two of you weigh in at 95lbs each?
That's exactly what I was thinking!! Whoah! Typo? Judging by the conversation, it appears he typed exactly what he meant.
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Old 09-17-12, 08:00 AM   #39
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Sorry, 290# not 190#.
We ride a particular climb in our area about once a month. And for the last year or more we have been working at whittling down our time but have been stuck at the same time. The first time up it on the V2r about a month ago we beat our time by almost 15%. Attribute some of that to adrenaline, although we were not chasing any singles. Attribute some of that to a few pounds off me and the bike since the last best time. We had the same average heart rate on the ascent with the V2R as the most recent prior attempts, so we were working as hard as always. After all that I still get easily 5% attributed to the right side drive. And riding one, that feels obvious; when I stand at the captain's position the bike does not lean under me like every other tandem I've ridden, instead I feel my pedal stroke pulling directly against the rear wheel.
A right side chain would work to get a compact crank. But the belt is so nice I would not give that up. We are within 5% of the low gear we'd like to have, mostly for long duration climbs, so we can makeit until we solve the compact crank belt equation.

Last edited by Turbotandem; 09-19-12 at 08:52 PM.
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