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Old 06-04-11, 11:26 AM   #1
just me
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Help me find that squeak.

The specifics;
Bike: Santana Team Scandium 7,900 miles.
Bottom Brackets 7,900 miles
Pedals Shimano SPD’s 7,900 miles
Wheelset Hadley Hubs 1,246 miles
Chain CN-7801 122 miles

Riding conditions 95% dry, we are near the coast so some sand on the roads.

The squeak has occurred on the last 2 long rides. Both times approximately 25 miles into the ride. Stoker hears it faintly for several miles before I can hear it. Sound goes with the cadence of the pedals, about once per revolution, only when we are putting a normal to heavy pressure on the drive chain. Sounds very similar to the wheel bearings failing on the original Sweet 16 Wheelset before the rear rim started cracking and I retired them.

What changed? Well I put a new chain on and the noise showed of soon after that. I did not oil the chain, normally let the factory grease protect the chain for several rides prior to cleaning and oiling.

What did I check? The first time it happened I stood up, no change; She stood, no change; Pedaled very lightly, noise stopped; Coasted, noise stopped

Got home removed all chains; Wheels spun freely, did not feel like bad bearings, cranks spin freely, did not feel like bad bearings, pedals were a little sluggish, but did not seem to be dragging, upper jockey wheel on the rear derailleur did not feel great

Next two morning short rides no problem. Today at the 25 mile mark, noise started again same as before.

Any suggestions? I really hate to just throw parts at it.

Jack

Last edited by just me; 06-04-11 at 06:47 PM.
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Old 06-04-11, 12:11 PM   #2
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Seems like it has to be one pedal, probably stoker's. Disassemble all pedals and lube. No cost. Next look at shoe/pedal connection.
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Old 06-04-11, 12:34 PM   #3
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Pedals should be a bit sluggish. If not, they need grease. Hate chasing squeeks.
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Old 06-04-11, 01:20 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by just me View Post
Any suggestions? I really hate to just throw parts at it.
Then don't. Or at least not until you do a complete overhaul.

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The first time it happened I stood up, no change; She stood, no change; Pedaled very lightly, noise stopped; Coasted, noise stopped.
Sometimes helpful, but not always. When you pedal lightly or coast, you alter the stresses on every other part as well, not just the drive train.

Some causes of bad creaks in time with pedaling action that aren't drive train related:

a) Seat post/saddle - Had one once that was a real bug-aboo. If the guy stood while pedaling, it was still there. But it was the seatpost anyway. There was just enough slop in the frame, (aluminum), to allow grit to get washed down between the seat tube and the post. Then, any side-to-side movement, even when out of the saddle, would cause a creak. Cleaned and re-greased post, creak went away.
b) Handlebars/stems - Remember another that sounded like it was coming from the front fork/wheel, but in time with pedaling and only under hard effort. Went on for months ... drove us nuts! All sorts of tests, hands-free riding, changing headset, different wheel, rechecking torque on all stem bolts, all no go. Turned out to be the admittedly old and worn headset SPACERS creaking against each other! SPACERS??!! Yep. Cleaned and greased BETWEEN each spacer and it went away.
c) Broken aluminum water bottle cage! - When riding hard the guy tended to throw the bike a bit and the weight of his bottle would cause the broken cage to creak, and quite frankly, ANY creak coming from below your waist SOUNDS like it coming from the drivetrain and particularly so if it's in time with pedal actions! Another long-winded annoyance.
d) Broken frames - Seen lots! Need I say more?

The second thing that all of the above have in common, (other than happening in time with pedal action), is that they would have automatically been found and/or cured accidentally by doing a complete overhaul ... all the way down to the frame. Everything off, cleaned individually, re-greased liberally, and reinstalled onto a cleaned, waxed and fully inspected frame.

When you've run through all the customary diagnostics and the creak is still there, it's either an overhaul or spend the next three months pulling your hair out!



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Old 06-04-11, 01:32 PM   #5
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Next look at shoe/pedal connection.
hehe! Or just shoes! I had forgotten about that one! Had a pair of road shoes once that utilized the "across the shoe, thru the loop and velcro back to itself" straps. After a season or so, all the aforementioned symptoms appeared! The creak, in time with pedaling, disappeared with soft-pedaling, etc. I'm tearing things apart/looking for wear/re-greasing, etc. Turns out my shoes needed some leather conditioner between the upper and the bottom side of the strap!

There's one a complete bike overhaul wouldn't catch! Who overhauls their shoes?
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2005 Trek T2000 Tandem, 2003 Burley Tosa Tandem, Pacific Dualie beater tandem, and 6 singles including 2 fixies.

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Old 06-04-11, 02:13 PM   #6
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After looking at your shoes, you may wish to try tightening your pedals. I once looked everywhere for a squeak, and stopped it after simply applying a wrench to them, no real overhaul. It was hardly loose at all, just enough for a bit of play.
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Old 06-04-11, 04:32 PM   #7
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Last year had a noise coming from the rear of our Team Scandium that was driving me nutz. Stoker is of no help when it comes to direction of noises.
At a rest stop I tightend the rear skewer a little and noise disappeared for a while.
Got home and pulled the skewer and gave it a light film of grease and no noise since.
Now it's the first thing I look at when chasing noises.
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Old 06-04-11, 06:50 PM   #8
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Thanks for the input and the ideas. I think I will start with the pedals, shoes, and skewer. Complete overhaul is scheduled for late summer, but I will move it up if the noise persists.

Jack
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Old 06-04-11, 08:16 PM   #9
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FWIW, I have a shoe that squeaks .... but only in warmer weather when I take my toe covers off.

Good luck tracking that squeak!

Henry
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Old 06-05-11, 09:23 AM   #10
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I'm another thinking shoe cleats or skewer. Have had both drive me nuts at one time or another. For the cleat it was actually the plate in the shoe and not the cleat or bolts....good luck and let us know what you ultimately find.

Bill J.
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Old 06-05-11, 09:54 AM   #11
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Not that I want you lube the wheel bearings, however those that seriously use Hadleys say they are race based and have minimal lube when built oem. Anything to save weight or spin easier.

I'm sure you will find it. Check some of the MTB sites like MTBR.com and you'll likely find topics about the hubs. I was searching there the other day about someone elses hub and found a few instances of race ready descriptions.

PK
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Old 06-05-11, 02:20 PM   #12
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You didn't mention if you had S&S couplers. If they are not cleaned and lubed on a regular basis and re-tightened, they can develop a squeak. If you just re-tighten them w/o lube, the squeak may remain.
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Old 06-05-11, 02:46 PM   #13
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Systematicaly check/tighten/lube all obvious and not so obvious things.
Dry/dirty chains? Seatpost? Saddle/rails? Pedals? BBs? Eccentric? Pedals/shoes? Handlebar/stem connection? Shoe rubbing crankarm? Bearings? Etc . .
Been there, done that!
Pedal on!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem
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Old 06-06-11, 04:36 AM   #14
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After looking at your shoes, you may wish to try tightening your pedals. I once looked everywhere for a squeak, and stopped it after simply applying a wrench to them, no real overhaul. It was hardly loose at all, just enough for a bit of play.
Also grease the threads on the pedals. That will cause a creak or squeak.
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Old 06-07-11, 05:16 PM   #15
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Did each of you unclip while the other pedaled?
We had the stoker seat railing slowly develop a crack until it failed. That's how we found that squeak.
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Old 06-07-11, 07:21 PM   #16
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Yeah, it's easy to isolate a lot. Figure out when the squeek is, like on level ground, or on an uphill, or spinning fast on a downhill, whatever. Then do that to reproduce the sound but with the stoker unclipped and staying perfectly still and note any change in the squeek. Then do the same thing with you unclipped and staying still and let the stoker pedal and note any change in the squeek. This isolates shoes and pedals right away. I would think that it may even help you isolate crank arms, seat posts, stems, handlebars, and the captain's chainring.
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Old 06-07-11, 11:18 PM   #17
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If you are running FSA cranks, check that the wave washer is not broken or missing. I just found that the washer on the captain crankset was the squeak culprit on our Speedster.

Good luck.
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Old 06-18-11, 01:38 PM   #18
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A quick follow up. I removed and oiled the Skewers (front and rear). I also oiled the cleat/pedal connection areas. Several rides later and we have not heard the squeak again. I am optimistic.

Thanks for the input.

Jack
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Old 06-18-11, 07:06 PM   #19
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I had a persistent, subtle squeak/shushing type sound last year on our Co-Motion. I went through every diagnostic step I could think of. Finally, disassembly, cleaning, lubing & reassembly of the freehub (DT-Hugi) solved the problem. Hasn't come back since. The manufacturer recommends yearly maintenance of the freehub.
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Old 06-19-11, 12:55 PM   #20
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We've had not so much of a squeak but more or a grinding or rubbing sound that the frame itself seem to amplify. The source seems to come from the rear of the bike and is a kind of hunting sound and like others have experienced, only starts after a number of miles. We're convinced it's something to do with the rear wheel and certainly tightening the rear skewer changes the cadence / load that causes the sound.

My pilot has checked everything and the only thing that he can obviously see is a slight burring at the edge of the rear drop outs.The bike has done around 25,000 to 30,000 miles now but maybe the wheel is able to just move slightly in the drop outs and this rubbing is amplified through the frame. It's really annoying and will try taking out the skewer and applying greese as suggested. Reluctant to tighten the skew any more though in case it breaks. Maybe track nuts are the way forward?
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Old 05-28-12, 09:32 PM   #21
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These things can take months to find. Seat post cleaning (inside the seat stay too) was one, I thought but it was one source. Eventually I discovered that the lock ring on the bottom bracket accumulated fine dust from riding on mountain highways in the early spring (that's June where I live). Once I took the lock ring off, cleaned the threads and the area where the lock ring tightens against the frame, the squeak disappeared, at least for the rest of the season.

Last edited by Duet; 05-28-12 at 09:38 PM.
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Old 05-29-12, 07:51 PM   #22
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Ahh, squeaks....
Stoker seatpost it was once. (Yes, even with her out of the saddle it squeaked, as a previous poster noted.) It was already greased but squeaking didn't stop until a spritz of penetrating oil on the greased post, then re-inserted.

Then we tracked another squeak to the rear hub: a spare single-bike wheel (with axle lengthened to fit) didn't squeak. The White Industries freehub had little divots on the splines from cog pressure, was that it? On replacing the freehub, the pawls on the old one looked quite chewed up where they mated with the ratchet ring. New one is quiet as can be. Success....but we don't know if it was the divots on the body or the worn pawls that actually made the squeak. New one already has early divots even with the lock ring RFT so we shall see.....

Finally, last squeak was silenced when somewhat loose and droopy transfer chain was tightened. But it never made a noise like that before.

Cleaning the whole disassembled bike sounds like a good idea, EXCEPT that mechanical things tend to fall apart shortly after they've been dismantled and put back together again. Never in my life have I completely taken apart a bicycle just to clean it -- my rule for servicing has been to keep in mind that we are doing an operation, not an autopsy. No more cutting than is necessary to get the job done, otherwise the operation might be a success but the patient dies. (Exceeding permissible limits to arguing by analogy, I know....)
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Old 05-29-12, 09:29 PM   #23
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The jockey pulleys on our XTR RD need greasing every couple years. The bearings are fine but the end caps need a little lube.
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Old 05-29-12, 11:14 PM   #24
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Are you using Chris King bottom brackets, I have had a noise exactly as you desribe and greasing them resolved the problem.
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