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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
    So, you are mixing and matching triple chainrings. Does this work for all variations of triple chainrings? If I have a middle chainring that is ramped and pinned so to be a middle in a triple, does it matter whether this is matched to the inner chainring? To the outer? Adam at Prasix stated that when they get a matched tandem chainring set the shifting would be magnificent. He thought maybe the double outer chainring he sent might work. I've found that this double outer chainring works better than both the triple TA and Dura Ace outer rings.

    I still don't know if it matters none, sometimes, little or considerably whether the outer chainring on a triple is double- or triple-specific, or designed to work with the particular middle chainring.
    When shifting from a smaller ring to a larger one there isn't anything on the smaller ring to help it shift to the larger one is there? If not it would be completely dependent on whatever ramps/ pins etc are on the larger ring as to how well the chain is picked up and it wouldn't matter what the smaller ring is.

  2. #27
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    I have nine speed with triple chainrings on my tandem. The large ring is an Origin with 48 teeth, the middle ring is a Shimano ten speed with 39 teeth and the small ring has 26 teeth with no ramps and pins (don't know the brand.) The crank is the older Shimano Ultegra and shifters are Ultegra 9 speed. This combination shifts great and I repeated this setup when I had the bike overhauled this winter. I made the switch from the usual 52/42/30 to gear the crank lower an use a tighter cassette on the back.

  3. #28
    Senior Member colotandem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post

    ...Does anybody have any other triple 130/74 BCD chainrings they can recommend?

    So can anyone comment on replacement rings for FSA Gossamer cranks? The FSAs have been ok, but as long as I'm replacing, any real world feedback would be appreciated.

  4. #29
    Tandem Vincitur Ritterview's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by colotandem View Post
    So can anyone comment on replacement rings for FSA Gossamer cranks? The FSAs have been ok, but as long as I'm replacing, any real world feedback would be appreciated.
    What ratio do you want to run? e.g. 53-42-30? 52-39-30?

    The middle chainring is the crux of it. You can get away with a double outer chainring, and the inner is likewise simple, but the middle has to be pinned and ramped to go both ways. Shimano makes nice forged chainrings, but their selection is limited--their 10-speed triple middle ring is only in 39t as far as I can tell. There is a nice selection of 130 BCD TA middle (Alize) and 74 BCD inner (Zelito) chainrings in however many teeth you may want. TA chainrings are well regarded, and mine work fine.

    In my experience, and from what I have gathered, the biggest shifting challenge for tandems is getting from the middle to the big ring. The tandem wants a stiff outer ring. The Shimano rings, what with their being forged instead of CNC'd, have always been the standard for stiffness. The triple outer is available I think only in 52t, but the double is available in a variety of sizes. I have not been sure whether it matters that an outer chainring is triple specific. I had a Shimano outer ring, and it shifted pretty well, maybe a tad better than the TA. I didn't like its look however, especially on my Campy-laden bike.

    As I note above, I really like the Praxis (double) outer chainring. It too is forged, like the Shimano, and the forging allows the inclusion of lots of shifting features. See review at Pez, or pic below.


    The pins are arguably the most important part of little to big ring movement and the detail for Praxis (bottom ring of three below) is notably different than stock SRAM (middle) or FSA (top).


    The chainring seems to be very stiff, and the shifting features seem to work. With TA and Shimano, getting from the middle to the big chainring was performed with recalcitrance, but with Praxis, alacrity.

  5. #30
    Senior Member waynesulak's Avatar
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    I use TA triple rings and are very happy with them. I love the wide choice in sizes that are available.

    Shimano's unique styling and lack of ring choice makes me avoid their rings and cranks. The company appears to me to intend to reduce Shimano crank owners choice in rings to Shimano only. I understand that business approach but disagree with it. I believe that users are better served by designs that work well and look good with other company's products.

    FSA rings have worked well for me but they also have a limited size selection and I can only find them in black. Some have reported that they are soft but we didn't have a problem with them.
    Last edited by waynesulak; 05-03-12 at 06:05 AM.

  6. #31
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    I think I am going to switch from FSA rings to Dura Ace.

    Also after doing Devil Mountain Double on the tandem for the 2nd time last weekend. I am ready to put the 28t Salsa granny ring back on. 50-60 cadence for literally a couple hours if you add up the time spent on the steeper grades. Will probably go with a 39t middle again so that we can leave in in the middle ring for most climbs, and even the spread to the 28t.... TDB.

  7. #32
    Senior Member colotandem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
    What ratio do you want to run? e.g. 53-42-30? 52-39-30?
    We currently run 53-42-30. I was thinking about trying the 39 middle. We had tried a 28t salsa granny gear a few years back and I recall that it did not play well with the FSA Gossamer cranks mated to our calfee frame. Seems like the ofset was not the same as the FSA ring and had to be shimmed inboard and that caused it to be too close to the frame... my memory may be off, but that seems what I remember. I like USPSPRO's idea of the 39-28 middle & low rings.

    We do a lot of climbing, living at the base of the Colorado Rockies, so the lower gearing might be a good call. Our calfee has actually been collecting dust over the past 2 years as we have all but switched over to the mtb tandem. Being that we signed up for a multi-day charity ride and this year, I need to finally replace the drivetrain and am quite out of touch with the road components.

    Thanks for the input, any more advice is certainly welcome! I'll investigage the TA rings and maybe the Shimano stuff too.

  8. #33
    Senior Member waynesulak's Avatar
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    I have come to think that gear ratios are a very personal choice depending on power, terrain and ability to adapt to different cadences. It is really nice to minimize front shifting.

    We put 12,000 miles on FSA 53-39 with first a FSA 30 then a Salsa 26 and both worked well for us. Used Ultegra shifters and FD on a Comotion Speedster. Shifting down into the granny did require a coordinated captain-stoker pause in power until we switched to Campy shifters. Never had problems upshifting with either Ultegra or Campy.

  9. #34
    Tandem Vincitur Ritterview's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by colotandem View Post
    We currently run 53-42-30. I was thinking about trying the 39 middle... I like USPSPRO's idea of the 39-28 middle & low rings...

    I'll investigage the TA rings and maybe the Shimano stuff too.
    If you are to have a 39 middle, then Shimano would seem to be the thing, since that the size they have and their chainrings have the best shifting reputation. You could match that with the Shimano 52 outer, and maybe a TA 28t low ring.

    Though I think the Praxis is the bee's nees, it wouldn't be the good for the 39t middle, as its 130 BCD comes only in a 53t, and the 14t jump from 39 to 53t is a stretch.

    Come to think of it, that really says something about the Praxis. The shift from the 42t middle ring is better on my 53t Praxis, than it was on either my 52t Shimano or TA chainrings.

  10. #35
    Senior Member colotandem's Avatar
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    Ok, silly question, but can someone explain the primary difference between the ultegra and dura ace chainrings?

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    Ritterview - any chance of you taking a comparison picture of the DA vs Praxis chainring shifting features? A similar shot to the PEZ picture would be great!

  12. #37
    Tandem Vincitur Ritterview's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino919 View Post
    Ritterview - any chance of you taking a comparison picture of the DA vs Praxis chainring shifting features? A similar shot to the PEZ picture would be great!
    Uh, not tonight! I've got to pack up and get ready for the Wine Country Century on Saturday! We will be leaving directly from work tomorrow.


    Here's a pic from CyclingNews showing the Dura Ace outer chainring shifting features.


    Ramps and pins on a Dura-Ace chainring mean the highest-force shift, between chainrings, still needs sufficiently low effort that the motors and battery are not unduly taxed.


    Here is a Praxis.

    Last edited by Ritterview; 05-03-12 at 10:55 PM.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
    Uh, not tonight! I've got to pack up and get ready for the Wine Country Century on Saturday! We will be leaving directly from work tomorrow.
    No worries! Have a good ride.

  14. #39
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    FWIW, Middleburn offers 130mm stuff along with the other typical patterns.

    Our 2x9 off-road Fandango uses a Middleburn SS ring and is the best front shifting tandem we own. They offer the SS series in a 52 or 53 for 130mm. Might carry over onto the road stuff.

    http://www.middleburn.co.uk/chainrings_130.php

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  15. #40
    Senior Member waynesulak's Avatar
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    Once the FD is dialed in we have never had trouble shifting from the middle ring up to big ring. We don't make that shift while standing but do always make it under our full seated power.

    This discussion makes me think that many do have problems with that shift. Am I understanding things correctly?

  16. #41
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    I have no trouble at all shifting middle to large with any rings we've had. We do have trouble getting from the 26 to the 39. We have to spin it up, take the pressure off and rotate the pedals slowly. This is the only shift I call. So far our Ultegra middle ring shifts best. We haven't tried Praxis. If their middle ring looks similar to their big ring, that would be an interesting choice.

  17. #42
    Gear Combo Guru Chris_W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by colotandem View Post
    Ok, silly question, but can someone explain the primary difference between the ultegra and dura ace chainrings?
    The Dura Ace outer chainrings are far stiffer than the Ultegra rings, which causes the shifts from middle to big to be much smoother (the chain moves rather than the outer ring being deflected). We're using a 7800 Dura Ace outer ring on the tandem, and it works better than any other we've had on there (previously had an FSA and an Ultegra). There are no Dura Ace middle or inner rings with a normal BCD, so the outer ring is the only place you can use one; the new DA rings (7900) have special shaping to match the cranks, so the 7800 outer ring is the ultimate IMO.

  18. #43
    PMK
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    With all this chainring talk, I'm curious if anyone has some Race Face ISIS cranks they are parting with. 175 / 175 ideally in red and not destroyed.

    As mentioned, they need to be ISIS as I want to get rid of the square taper stuff if possible.

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  19. #44
    Tandem Vincitur Ritterview's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uspspro View Post
    I think I am going to switch from FSA rings to Dura Ace.

    Also after doing Devil Mountain Double on the tandem for the 2nd time last weekend.[] I am ready to put the 28t Salsa granny ring back on. 50-60 cadence for literally a couple hours if you add up the time spent on the steeper grades. Will probably go with a 39t middle again so that we can leave in in the middle ring for most climbs, and even the spread to the 28t.... TDB.
    If you are going to get DA chainrings to work with a 39t middle, with how many teeth?

    52t...Part No. 100077659...triple
    52t...Part No. 100077456...double
    53t...Part No. 100077514...double
    54t...Part No. 100077486...double


    --Are you going to get the Shimano 39t middle?
    --Does it matter if the outer chainring is the triple version?
    --With 39t, are you limited to 52t, or can you consider 53t?

  20. #45
    Gear Combo Guru Chris_W's Avatar
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    The Dura Ace triple middle ring (39 tooth) will only work on cranks that have no mounting posts for the inner ring, like the new Ultegra-level tandem cranks, or the Ultegra or Dura Ace single-bike triple cranks. Therefore, it probably wont work; even if it does, then the only ring that you can mount onto it for the inner ring is Shimano's 30 tooth (the BCD has to be the odd 92 mm size). Since you therefore probably cannot use the matching middle ring, it probably doesn't matter exactly which outer Dura Ace ring you use. I believe we are using the 53 tooth double version, which works really well.

  21. #46
    Tandem Vincitur Ritterview's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_W View Post
    The Dura Ace triple middle ring (39 tooth) will only work on cranks that have no mounting posts for the inner ring, like the new Ultegra-level tandem cranks, or the Ultegra or Dura Ace single-bike triple cranks. Therefore, it probably wont work; even if it does, then the only ring that you can mount onto it for the inner ring is Shimano's 30 tooth (the BCD has to be the odd 92 mm size). Since you therefore probably cannot use the matching middle ring, it probably doesn't matter exactly which outer Dura Ace ring you use. I believe we are using the 53 tooth double version, which works really well.
    Boy, am I glad I am happy with using TA middle and inner rings, and do not have to figure this out.

    I still don't know, however, with transitioning from a 30t [53-42-30] to a 28t inner ring, what is the largest size middle ring to use (39t?), and with a 39t middle ring, what is the largest outer ring that could be used?

  22. #47
    Senior Member waynesulak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
    Boy, am I glad I am happy with using TA middle and inner rings, and do not have to figure this out.

    I still don't know, however, with transitioning from a 30t [53-42-30] to a 28t inner ring, what is the largest size middle ring to use (39t?), and with a 39t middle ring, what is the largest outer ring that could be used?
    I think the ability to go from small to big ring is dependent on which FD that you use. In addition to the shape and stiffness of the FD cage, there is the issue of cage length. The cage must be long enough to clear the big ring and still allow the chain through when using the small front ring and the smallest cog that you will use in back.

    We had success with an Ultegra FD using 26/39/53. Middle and outer were FSA. I actually think the 105 FD we use now is slightly stiffer, heavier and better shifting than Ultegra. On a tandem a stiff FD with more steel is worth a few grams. We have never used a Dura Ace FD and not sure they still make a triple version. Front shifting to a smaller ring we found 2008 and prior Campy Record or Chorus left shifters shift under more load that Dura Ace or Ultegra shifters. This was using an Ultegra FD and 26/39/53 with all shifters.
    Last edited by waynesulak; 05-06-12 at 10:28 AM.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
    Boy, am I glad I am happy with using TA middle and inner rings, and do not have to figure this out.

    I still don't know, however, with transitioning from a 30t [53-42-30] to a 28t inner ring, what is the largest size middle ring to use (39t?), and with a 39t middle ring, what is the largest outer ring that could be used?
    FYI, I don't recommend the TA 28t. We wore ours out in half a season. The chain would actually slip on the chainring on steep grades, scary and no fun. Switched to a salsa and problem was solved. There are no ramps/pins on the middle ring anyway, so might as well get the ring with the most secure tooth profile. Save the fancy rings for the outer and middle.

    Just ordered a DA 53t and a 39t (which I now know won't work), but I have a low miles FSA 39t that I will try. I could also bust out the grinder and modify that DA 39t My 53t was worn, and I wanted something better than the FSA. The only shift up front that is not smooth is the middle to outer shift. So I am looking forward to the DA 53t!

  24. #49
    Tandem Vincitur Ritterview's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uspspro View Post
    FYI, I don't recommend the TA 28t. We wore ours out in half a season. The chain would actually slip on the chainring on steep grades, scary and no fun. Switched to a salsa and problem was solved. There are no ramps/pins on the middle [you mean, inner, yes?] ring anyway, so might as well get the ring with the most secure tooth profile. Save the fancy rings for the outer and middle.
    Yeah, but a half-season for a your inner ring is like several lifetimes for other grannies. If I was to be reincarnated as an inner ring, I'd be horrified if destined for your Tetra!

    Thanks for the tip on the Salsa 28t. We've not had any problems with our TA 30t, but maybe things are different with a 28t. That is throttled.

    I'd like to have a 28t inner ring, but it is shifting very well now, and I think this would necessitate switching from a 42t to 39t middle, and I fret that this would degrade the middle to outer (53t) shifting. I'll let you go first!

  25. #50
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    With Ultegra 9 speed FD, the 39-52 shift is effortless. You'd have to look at how much you'd move the FD up the tube and whether that would impact your granny shifting.

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